The Ravens are taking all kind of shit for that press conference and rightly so. Wouldn't be surprised to see one or more PR flacks get fired. (Though the guy who SHOULD be fired is Rice, of course.)
Re: Athletes breaking laws and beating women
Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 10:03 am
by HaulCitgo
Haven't paid attention to this story since the video came out and agree that either way its bad PR, but, shocker... Sometimes people do dumb shit that prompts and even justifies an ass whooping. And I guess its controversial but sometimes that person is a female. Now I'd like to think you wouldn't do that to someone you love but on the flip side maybe that's what makes it all the more justifiable. I am fully against abusing your woman and see a lot more of it than I wish to but there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that your actions might have brought on a beating if they did. Still a bad move by the ravens but only because the public isn't comfortable with these conversations.
Re: Athletes breaking laws and beating women
Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 10:21 am
by brian
HaulCitgo wrote:Haven't paid attention to this story since the video came out and agree that either way its bad PR, but, shocker... Sometimes people do dumb shit that prompts and even justifies an ass whooping. And I guess its controversial but sometimes that person is a female. Now I'd like to think you wouldn't do that to someone you love but on the flip side maybe that's what makes it all the more justifiable. I am fully against abusing your woman and see a lot more of it than I wish to but there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that your actions might have brought on a beating if they did. Still a bad move by the ravens but only because the public isn't comfortable with these conversations.
Just like them dick teases too, wearing those short skirts and asking to raped. They had it coming.
Re: Athletes breaking laws and beating women
Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 10:48 am
by HaulCitgo
Well most everyone would agree that if your girl points a gun at your face, then it is ok to punch them as Rice did. Conversely, if your girl brings you lukewarm pancakes then most everyone would say not ok to punch them as Rice did. So the only issue is where that line is and under many circumstances the ravens statement might be true. But I won't attempt to deny you a rape fantasy. Carry on.
Re: Athletes breaking laws and beating women
Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 10:54 am
by brian
HaulCitgo wrote:Well most everyone would agree that if your girl points a gun at your face, then it is ok to punch them as Rice did. Conversely, if your girl brings you lukewarm pancakes then most everyone would say not ok to punch them as Rice did. So the only issue is where that line is and under many circumstances the ravens statement might be true. But I won't attempt to deny you a rape fantasy. Carry on.
The point is you don't know what happened in the Rice situation. So trying to justify it is callous at best.
Re: Athletes breaking laws and beating women
Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 11:10 am
by brian
Your straw man argument aside, there was absolutely less than zero excuse to trot Rice's wife up there and make her apologize for being beaten and dragged unconscious through a casino.
Re: Athletes breaking laws and beating women
Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 11:18 am
by HaulCitgo
I'll give you that from a ravens perspective. All I saw was a link to a twitter account with a statement that was pretty reasonable. But likewise if you don't know what happened how can you be outraged by something must likely true.
Re: Athletes breaking laws and beating women
Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 5:18 pm
by tennbengal
brian wrote:Your straw man argument aside, there was absolutely less than zero excuse to trot Rice's wife up there and make her apologize for being beaten and dragged unconscious through a casino.
This.
And then to tweet her apology from the official Ravens account to boot.
At a press conference Friday filled with self-pity, in which he did not apologize to his wife, Janay Palmer, Rice said he had “failed miserably.”
What he really appeared to fail at was an apology. “I failed miserably, but I wouldn’t call myself a failure because failure is not getting knocked down. It’s not getting up,” he said
Re: Athletes breaking laws and beating women
Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 1:54 pm
by brian
Fortunately Rice was brave enough and quick enough to disarm his wife after she apparently came after him with some kind of weapon.
Who'da thunk it that Stevens would end up being the stable part of that couple.
I'm still madly in love with her, though, as dangerous as that may be.
Re: Athletes breaking laws and beating women
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:52 pm
by kranepool
And Chuck Knoblauch throws yet another one into the 15th row.
Re: Athletes breaking laws and beating women
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:19 am
by Johnnie
In order to not threadjack the NFL breaking down thread...
The internet and the world flipped the fuck out over these Stephen A. Smith comments regarding domestic abuse:
I don't see where the outrage is here. This is NOT the same as a girl wearing slutty clothes and therefore "asking to be raped." This is about the mentality that I've seen in some women where they KNOW they can hit men and get away with it and nothing will happen to them. (Tangent: this has happened to me before. I know my strength. I had to literally freeze and walk away as fast as possible because my career flashed before my eyes. Naturally nothing happened to the girl because 1) I didn't rat her out and 2) if I did I'd be labeled a bitch. But I digress.) But hey...discussing a matter like this is going to lead to outrage because the spin will be "OMG! An ESPN employee thinks women are 'asking to be hit' and therefore need to think about men because men are the usual victims of domestic abuse."
In times like this I always revert to comedians because they can state the same things except they won't get hammered for it because it's shielded under a comedic umbrella. It's the same attitude, but Stephen A. will catch the shit because his job is different.
Re: Athletes breaking laws and beating women
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:29 am
by teeteebee
@notdarrenrovell - Sources say after a long negotiation process with the likes of BVD and Hanes, Ray Rice has inked a multi-year deal with Fruit of the Loom to endorse their tank tops.
Re: Athletes breaking laws and beating women
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:29 am
by mister d
Congrats on not punching the girl back, Johnnie.
Re: Athletes breaking laws and beating women
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:38 am
by The Sybian
Johnnie wrote:In order to not threadjack the NFL breaking down thread...
The internet and the world flipped the fuck out over these Stephen A. Smith comments regarding domestic abuse:
"OMG! An ESPN employee thinks women are 'asking to be hit' and therefore need to think about men because men are the usual victims of domestic abuse."
what if the woman says "hit me."
Re: Athletes breaking laws and beating women
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:55 am
by DaveInSeattle
First off.....Stephen A Smith and Skip Bayless are jack-asses, and should never be listened to under any circumstances.
Second....don't hit people! Anyone! Don't you learn that in pre-school? Is it that tough to not hit someone? Just walk away.
Third...All this about "women get in men's face because they know they can't be hit". Ok, maybe....rarely. Stats show that something like 85% (or more) of domestic violence incidents are men beating women.
4th....I guarantee that this wasn't the first time Ray Rice beat her. Just the first time it was caught on video tape.
5th....What is this with ESPN pundits being "tough guys". Here's Stephen A talking about how he and "his boys" had to get physical with someone, and Wilbon does this all the time on PTI...about how he would go "upside someone's head". Like Mr Pampered Sportswriter is going to throw down with someone...
Re: Athletes breaking laws and beating women
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:59 am
by tennbengal
Johnnie ..nothing anyone does, including women, deserves a beating. Smith stepped into for putting a part of the burden on a woman to avoid getting physically beaten.
Michelle Beadle was all over that. Correctly.
Re: Athletes breaking laws and beating women
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:58 am
by Johnnie
tennbengal wrote:Johnnie ..nothing anyone does, including women, deserves a beating.
tennbengal wrote:Smith stepped into for putting a part of the burden on a woman to avoid getting physically beaten.
Michelle Beadle was all over that. Correctly.
As if that doesn't apply to men either. In my mind he's only guilty of bad timing. Women deserve ass beatings just as much as men do in certain circumstances. But as a man, you just don't beat a woman unless that woman is actively trying to kill you.
Re: Athletes breaking laws and beating women
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:01 pm
by howard
DaveInSeattle wrote:First off.....Stephen A Smith and Skip Bayless are jack-asses, and should never be listened to under any circumstances.
word.
Circling back to Johnnie's post, paying minimal attention to Smith's performance at his attention-getting entertainment job. I have had a drunk 170 pound woman beating the shit out of me, knowing that even if I keep exquisite cool and use the absolute minimal amount of violence to make her stop, I am still likely going to fucking jail. This is not a thought experiment, but actual experience. It was one of the biggest tests of my manhood--to suffer the punches, kicks, scratches and blows from blunt objects w/o throwing a punch. Thank you Mr. Ghandi and Mr.Ali (rope-a-dope) for having taught me how. But trust me, not hitting people when you are being hit and scratched in the face is harder than it sounds. About the hardest thing ever.
(Dave, unlike bruthas like me and Johnnie, clearly you haven't dated many angry black women.)
Third...All this about "women get in men's face because they know they can't be hit". Ok, maybe....rarely. Stats show that something like 85% (or more) of domestic violence incidents are men beating women.
I don't mean to quibble about the words rarely and common, but 15% times the number of domestic violence incidents is a big number. And a woman striking a man (which is the case in woman on man domestic violence--cops and courts don't charge and convict women for getting in the face, only for actual battery) accounts for that 15% or so. Very different from actual battery is 'getting in someone's face'.
I guaranfuckingtee you that 'women get in a man's face knowing they can't be hit' or that if they are hit the man will get carted off by the cops is a common common phenomenon. In my estimation, that does not justify violence--don't get me wrong. But this is a common part of the dynamic in domestic violence. I'm not talking right and wrong, just describing and seeking to understand what is.
4th....I guarantee that this wasn't the first time Ray Rice beat her. Just the first time it was caught on video tape.
5th....What is this with ESPN pundits being "tough guys". Here's Stephen A talking about how he and "his boys" had to get physical with someone, and Wilbon does this all the time on PTI...about how he would go "upside someone's head". Like Mr Pampered Sportswriter is going to throw down with someone...
PR guy doing what PR guys do.
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!
Look over there! A squirrel!
Re: Athletes breaking laws and beating women
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:20 pm
by Shirley
Wow. I did miss that he is a PR guy, which makes some sense, but ... wow.
So, from that article, I should take it that:
a) Ray Rice is the same as a young child - he's gonna make mistakes - they all do!
b) Beating your girlfriend unconscious and then dragging her around a hotel is pretty much the same thing as making a mistake on the football field in a big game.
c) If you show any remorse for your actions - that's good enough! In fact, you're obviously a great guy.
d) If you can be of great value to anyone for any reason, they'll stick up for you no matter what.
Re: Athletes breaking laws and beating women
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:18 pm
by EdRomero
I just don't get fans giving him a standing ovation today. He sucked last year.
Re: Athletes breaking laws and beating women
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:22 pm
by A_B
Same fans who overlooked Ray Lewis, remember.
Re: Athletes breaking laws and beating women
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:22 pm
by Johnny Carwash
EdRomero wrote:I just don't get fans giving him a standing ovation today. He sucked last year.
Ravens fans are used to offseason acts of violence being the prelude to a redemption arc that ends in a championship.
Re: Athletes breaking laws and beating women
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:18 pm
by mister d
AB_skin_test wrote:Same fans who overlooked Ray Lewis, remember.
You know, in my mind the profession of Public Relations is right down there with arms merchant in terms of respectable professions.
(I apologize if I offend...)
But here's a quote that made my eyes bulge -
What I attempt to do with this blog is lift the veil on the Ravens, try to share with fans some of what takes place that media doesn't see or care to cover.
Really asshole? Thanks for showing us the "warts and all."
What a jackass.
Re: Athletes breaking laws and beating women
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:52 pm
by mister d
That PR Guy wrote:I heard the clang of a weight in the corner. When I looked to see who was there, it was Ray. "What are you doing here?" I asked him and joked that he could turn on the lights.
A subdued Rice said: "I've been trying to come in the building and work out when no one is here. I'm not sure anyone wants to see me. I'm so sorry, and I'm embarrassed. And, I don't want to make any of the women feel uncomfortable."
Wow.
"Why would women feel uncomfortable around you, Ray?" I asked, genuinely perplexed.
"Because, Kevin, just a few weeks ago I punched my fiancee so hard in the face that she lost consciousness for several minutes. I did this in public. I then dragged her body back towards our hotel room."
"Oh."
Re: Athletes breaking laws and beating women
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:51 pm
by Pruitt
mister d wrote:
That PR Guy wrote:I heard the clang of a weight in the corner. When I looked to see who was there, it was Ray. "What are you doing here?" I asked him and joked that he could turn on the lights.
A subdued Rice said: "I've been trying to come in the building and work out when no one is here. I'm not sure anyone wants to see me. I'm so sorry, and I'm embarrassed. And, I don't want to make any of the women feel uncomfortable."
Wow.
"Why would women feel uncomfortable around you, Ray?" I asked, genuinely perplexed.
"Because, Kevin, just a few weeks ago I punched my fiancee so hard in the face that she lost consciousness for several minutes. I did this in public. I then dragged her body back towards our hotel room."
"Oh."
"Your dick tastes good as always Ray."
Re: Athletes breaking laws and beating women
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:24 pm
by Johnnie
Thank you, Whoopi.
Re: Athletes breaking laws and beating women
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:30 am
by Shirley
There are two different issues here. In that annoying video Johnnie posted, the two groups are arguing at each other, saying different things.
Whoopie - if a woman hits a man, she shouldn't be surprised if he hits her back.
Everyone else - A man should NEVER hit a woman.
Those two viewpoints are not mutually exclusive. I think they are both right. The key (to me) is that even though you may lose the right to be "surprised" when someone hits you back after you hit them, it doesn't excuse the behavior of either side.
There's a clear moral (and legal) concept of appropriate response and inappropriate escalation in any conflict. If I hit you, that doesn't give you the right to stab me. If I punch you, you don't have the right to burn my house down. In the vast majority of cases (and 100% of them involving professional football players), a man hitting a woman is a large escalation over a woman hitting a man back.
Looking at this in reverse, this is why you get cases (and I'm usually cool with it) where a woman shoots a man who beats her up. She has no other appropriate response (well, ignoring going to the police or whatever). Hitting him back is not feasible and/or not comparable. She HAS to escalate, because physical combat is never going to be fair.
All that said, back to Whoopie's point - it's the same reason you should never pick a fight at a bar. While the other dude is only morally or legally allowed to punch you back, there's no telling when you might get a dude who's going to shoot you instead.
Re: Athletes breaking laws and beating women
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:16 am
by sancarlos
Shirley wrote:There are two different issues here. In that annoying video Johnnie posted, the two groups are arguing at each other, saying different things.
Whoopie - if a woman hits a man, she shouldn't be surprised if he hits her back.
Everyone else - A man should NEVER hit a woman.
Those two viewpoints are not mutually exclusive. I think they are both right. The key (to me) is that even though you may lose the right to be "surprised" when someone hits you back after you hit them, it doesn't excuse the behavior of either side.
There's a clear moral (and legal) concept of appropriate response and inappropriate escalation in any conflict. If I hit you, that doesn't give you the right to stab me. If I punch you, you don't have the right to burn my house down. In the vast majority of cases (and 100% of them involving professional football players), a man hitting a woman is a large escalation over a woman hitting a man back.
Looking at this in reverse, this is why you get cases (and I'm usually cool with it) where a woman shoots a man who beats her up. She has no other appropriate response (well, ignoring going to the police or whatever). Hitting him back is not feasible and/or not comparable. She HAS to escalate, because physical combat is never going to be fair.
All that said, back to Whoopie's point - it's the same reason you should never pick a fight at a bar. While the other dude is only morally or legally allowed to punch you back, there's no telling when you might get a dude who's going to shoot you instead.