Electric Vehicles
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Re: Electric Vehicles
Nice.
Marques Brownlee recently reviewed Lucid. Ridiculously expensive. I've seen only one in the wild.
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EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.
Re: Electric Vehicles
There are a couple Rivian pickup trucks I’ve seen around here lately. Really interesting look.
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Re: Electric Vehicles
I saw a job opening at Rivian about 6 months ago and hadn't heard of them at the time, so I looked at their website and it's a really cool truck, especially if you plan on taking it camping. A ton of features, like a built-in tent that opens over the bed of the truck, numerous outlets throughout the exterior to plug in appliances, tvs, or charge your phone. I've seen a bunch on the streets, my daughter thinks they look stupid, but I thought it was extremely innovative.
Drove past a Lucid over the summer, and it sure as hell caught my eye. Unique and cool looking, but they start at $155,000 before you add the features. I think it's like Tesla, where you design your car online and every option has additional costs.
ETA: Looks like the Lucid Air Touring starts at $155,000, the Air Pure is the least expensive starting at $87,000 and the Air Saphire starts at $250,000. The Saphire is pre-production and will have 1,200 HP, a top speed over 200mph and 0-60 in under 2 seconds. What could go wrong?
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Re: Electric Vehicles
Since Rivian announced production I’ve had my eye on that pickup as my first EV purchase (I’ve driven mostly trucks over the past 25 years)…the problem is they’ve been struggling financially so I’m not sure about long term viability/support. I’ve seen two here in Longmont and they do look nice.
I would like expensive whiskey.
We only have beer & wine...
What am I, 12?
We only have beer & wine...
What am I, 12?
Re: Electric Vehicles
Doug DeMuro covered both the R1S and R1T if you're curious about their quirks and features. They look pretty cool.
Also, Syb, if you thought Lucid was unnecessarily expensive, check out the Cadillac Celestiq.
(Seems like the letter Q has been bogarted by Cadillac to distinguish their EVs.)
It's starts at $300k and goes from there.
Also, Syb, if you thought Lucid was unnecessarily expensive, check out the Cadillac Celestiq.
(Seems like the letter Q has been bogarted by Cadillac to distinguish their EVs.)
It's starts at $300k and goes from there.
mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.
Re: Electric Vehicles
Perhaps the makers of Cadillac think they they are still viewed the way they were back in the olden days, as the super-prestige brand.
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Re: Electric Vehicles
Y’all, it’s really worth discussing what the fuck is gonna happen with Tesla. If someone told me today that they will collapse as a business in the next six months I might believe them.
So, I bought a model 3 in March. Extended range battery, self driving capable, and the performance acceleration. It’s nice, and is stupid fun to drive. Because of the move overseas the wisest course of action is to sell it. One of the reasons we bought the car was at the time, 9 long months ago, they had far and away the best resale value on the market and had for several years. Demand far outweighed the available inventory. People were buying my version for as high as $67-68k just to get one. We’ve had ours listed in a couple of places since august. We were in no immediate hurry to sell it so weren’t pushing it that hard (didn’t want to rent a car for months as we waited). We also ran by our local guy we’ve bought other cars from just to see. He offered $55k, because they don’t sell them and would go through the auction process. That price made sense given they need to make a buck, but we decided no and would try more for a private sale.
Well, meanwhile Elmo has been having his very public meltdown on Twitter and alienating a huge chunk of his customer base, the demand for the cars has positively dropped out the bottom. We’ve spent the last week aggressively selling and are now being offered in the $40k range, and some as low as $30k. The car is pristine, indistinguishable from when I bought it, and it’s dropped 40% in value in five months. When we talked to some dealerships, they said hell no, they were under specific instructions to not buy any due to the complete deterioration in the market. We had one guy tell us that he sold one last week at a $10k loss just to avoid losing any more. I’m fortunate that I can take the hit and tick it up as a life lesson. But fucks sake.
That’s a major problem for a company with as wide a market share as they have. I’m honestly not sure it’s actually recoverable without significant changes. And Tesla has a specific policy that they do NOT buy and sell used cars. They accept trade-ins and only trade-ins. So they sell very expensive cars that are closely getting to a point that they have no resale value, while their key selling point is being undermined daily by their ceo as a result of his own separate business boondoggle. Their share price has absolutely cratered at the same time that their demand has done the same. And again, the ceo is off in lala land not minding the shop. How long can the board of directors allow that to go on? I mean, it might already be too late.
So, I bought a model 3 in March. Extended range battery, self driving capable, and the performance acceleration. It’s nice, and is stupid fun to drive. Because of the move overseas the wisest course of action is to sell it. One of the reasons we bought the car was at the time, 9 long months ago, they had far and away the best resale value on the market and had for several years. Demand far outweighed the available inventory. People were buying my version for as high as $67-68k just to get one. We’ve had ours listed in a couple of places since august. We were in no immediate hurry to sell it so weren’t pushing it that hard (didn’t want to rent a car for months as we waited). We also ran by our local guy we’ve bought other cars from just to see. He offered $55k, because they don’t sell them and would go through the auction process. That price made sense given they need to make a buck, but we decided no and would try more for a private sale.
Well, meanwhile Elmo has been having his very public meltdown on Twitter and alienating a huge chunk of his customer base, the demand for the cars has positively dropped out the bottom. We’ve spent the last week aggressively selling and are now being offered in the $40k range, and some as low as $30k. The car is pristine, indistinguishable from when I bought it, and it’s dropped 40% in value in five months. When we talked to some dealerships, they said hell no, they were under specific instructions to not buy any due to the complete deterioration in the market. We had one guy tell us that he sold one last week at a $10k loss just to avoid losing any more. I’m fortunate that I can take the hit and tick it up as a life lesson. But fucks sake.
That’s a major problem for a company with as wide a market share as they have. I’m honestly not sure it’s actually recoverable without significant changes. And Tesla has a specific policy that they do NOT buy and sell used cars. They accept trade-ins and only trade-ins. So they sell very expensive cars that are closely getting to a point that they have no resale value, while their key selling point is being undermined daily by their ceo as a result of his own separate business boondoggle. Their share price has absolutely cratered at the same time that their demand has done the same. And again, the ceo is off in lala land not minding the shop. How long can the board of directors allow that to go on? I mean, it might already be too late.
Re: Electric Vehicles
It sucks you're going through that, man. I'm sorry.
Tesla's stock has been grossly overvalued for some time now, so the dip shouldn't have been unexpected.
However, a huge chunk of their revenue originates in China and they're pushing hard with their own EV market.
Then you add the accelerant of Elon's Musk to the whole thing and I quickly decided I'll never buy a Tesla.
I think Elon even sold a huge amount of his shares recently too? Anyhoo, dude's a fucking nut case.
Tesla's stock has been grossly overvalued for some time now, so the dip shouldn't have been unexpected.
However, a huge chunk of their revenue originates in China and they're pushing hard with their own EV market.
Then you add the accelerant of Elon's Musk to the whole thing and I quickly decided I'll never buy a Tesla.
I think Elon even sold a huge amount of his shares recently too? Anyhoo, dude's a fucking nut case.
mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.
Re: Electric Vehicles
So you are not excited for a straight trade for my 4 cylinder Subaru Impreza hatchback? Will throw in the Thule Roof Rack and Thule Trailer rack. 70K miles but original owner, new tires, and a new passenger seat cushion in the last year.Square Rob wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:41 pm Y’all, it’s really worth discussing what the fuck is gonna happen with Tesla. If someone told me today that they will collapse as a business in the next six months I might believe them.
So, I bought a model 3 in March. Extended range battery, self driving capable, and the performance acceleration. It’s nice, and is stupid fun to drive. Because of the move overseas the wisest course of action is to sell it. One of the reasons we bought the car was at the time, 9 long months ago, they had far and away the best resale value on the market and had for several years. Demand far outweighed the available inventory. People were buying my version for as high as $67-68k just to get one. We’ve had ours listed in a couple of places since august. We were in no immediate hurry to sell it so weren’t pushing it that hard (didn’t want to rent a car for months as we waited). We also ran by our local guy we’ve bought other cars from just to see. He offered $55k, because they don’t sell them and would go through the auction process. That price made sense given they need to make a buck, but we decided no and would try more for a private sale.
Well, meanwhile Elmo has been having his very public meltdown on Twitter and alienating a huge chunk of his customer base, the demand for the cars has positively dropped out the bottom. We’ve spent the last week aggressively selling and are now being offered in the $40k range, and some as low as $30k. The car is pristine, indistinguishable from when I bought it, and it’s dropped 40% in value in five months. When we talked to some dealerships, they said hell no, they were under specific instructions to not buy any due to the complete deterioration in the market. We had one guy tell us that he sold one last week at a $10k loss just to avoid losing any more. I’m fortunate that I can take the hit and tick it up as a life lesson. But fucks sake.
That’s a major problem for a company with as wide a market share as they have. I’m honestly not sure it’s actually recoverable without significant changes. And Tesla has a specific policy that they do NOT buy and sell used cars. They accept trade-ins and only trade-ins. So they sell very expensive cars that are closely getting to a point that they have no resale value, while their key selling point is being undermined daily by their ceo as a result of his own separate business boondoggle. Their share price has absolutely cratered at the same time that their demand has done the same. And again, the ceo is off in lala land not minding the shop. How long can the board of directors allow that to go on? I mean, it might already be too late.
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Re: Electric Vehicles
If you can get the damn thing to France for me I. The next week you might have a deal. Will be buying two cheap used cars when over there.
Promoted tweet just now on hellscape telling me to buy Tesla stock. Lol.
Promoted tweet just now on hellscape telling me to buy Tesla stock. Lol.
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Re: Electric Vehicles
I've got a Y and have been looking at other options. I love everything about the driving experience, but what was once just a dislike of the dip shit Elmo, has become a major concern with the viability of the car moving forward. Had no clue prices were bottoming out. Kinda seems like maybe a time to get a deal on one, paradoxically.
Until everything is less insane, I'm mixing weed with wine.
Re: Electric Vehicles
Can't wait till he locks your car because you posted a mean tweet about him
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Re: Electric Vehicles
Maybe this is a *really* stupid idea, but would it make sense to store the car, at least for a while? I'd think resale value will likely recover in the next few months/years, and so if you don't absolutely need the cash right now, maybe wait out the market dip?Square Rob wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:41 pm Y’all, it’s really worth discussing what the fuck is gonna happen with Tesla. If someone told me today that they will collapse as a business in the next six months I might believe them.
So, I bought a model 3 in March. Extended range battery, self driving capable, and the performance acceleration. It’s nice, and is stupid fun to drive. Because of the move overseas the wisest course of action is to sell it. One of the reasons we bought the car was at the time, 9 long months ago, they had far and away the best resale value on the market and had for several years. Demand far outweighed the available inventory. People were buying my version for as high as $67-68k just to get one. We’ve had ours listed in a couple of places since august. We were in no immediate hurry to sell it so weren’t pushing it that hard (didn’t want to rent a car for months as we waited). We also ran by our local guy we’ve bought other cars from just to see. He offered $55k, because they don’t sell them and would go through the auction process. That price made sense given they need to make a buck, but we decided no and would try more for a private sale.
Well, meanwhile Elmo has been having his very public meltdown on Twitter and alienating a huge chunk of his customer base, the demand for the cars has positively dropped out the bottom. We’ve spent the last week aggressively selling and are now being offered in the $40k range, and some as low as $30k. The car is pristine, indistinguishable from when I bought it, and it’s dropped 40% in value in five months. When we talked to some dealerships, they said hell no, they were under specific instructions to not buy any due to the complete deterioration in the market. We had one guy tell us that he sold one last week at a $10k loss just to avoid losing any more. I’m fortunate that I can take the hit and tick it up as a life lesson. But fucks sake.
That’s a major problem for a company with as wide a market share as they have. I’m honestly not sure it’s actually recoverable without significant changes. And Tesla has a specific policy that they do NOT buy and sell used cars. They accept trade-ins and only trade-ins. So they sell very expensive cars that are closely getting to a point that they have no resale value, while their key selling point is being undermined daily by their ceo as a result of his own separate business boondoggle. Their share price has absolutely cratered at the same time that their demand has done the same. And again, the ceo is off in lala land not minding the shop. How long can the board of directors allow that to go on? I mean, it might already be too late.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: Electric Vehicles
We talked about that and have considered it. We do have a garage space at my MiL’s we could use. But for me there’s so much uncertainty around everything Tesla I’d rather just take the hit and be done with it.
Re: Electric Vehicles
Yeah, that strategy would worry me because its not like you've reached the potential bottom. An attempt to eventually recoup $10K or whatever could cost your double or triple or more.
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Re: Electric Vehicles
Hm. I guess the "potential bottom" would be zero, and sure, that hasn't been reached yet. But right now we're at the height of a (well-earned) anti-Musk frenzy. He's been History's Greatest Monster for the past month and then turned it up a couple of notches the past week.
That frenzy will pass, and when it does, the Tesla Model 3 will still be an awesome car.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
Re: Electric Vehicles
I'm going to disagree about being at the peak of Musk hatred. I think any week in the past ~2 months this could have been suggested and its still climbing. He still has two more major kills (twitter, a major / more publicized pedestrian incident) that will make right now look like silly fun.
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Re: Electric Vehicles
You can store it in my garage. I’ll make sure to exercise the gaskets every week.Square Rob wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 12:06 pm We talked about that and have considered it. We do have a garage space at my MiL’s we could use. But for me there’s so much uncertainty around everything Tesla I’d rather just take the hit and be done with it.
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Re: Electric Vehicles
If I had a garage, I would seriously make the same offer. I'm "storing" my son's car while he's in Germany by parking it at the cabin and letting the snow bury it until spring. I can't imagine that would be a good thing to do to a near-new Tesla.The Sybian wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 1:11 pmYou can store it in my garage. I’ll make sure to exercise the gaskets every week.Square Rob wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 12:06 pm We talked about that and have considered it. We do have a garage space at my MiL’s we could use. But for me there’s so much uncertainty around everything Tesla I’d rather just take the hit and be done with it.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
Re: Electric Vehicles
The sensor for passenger air bag (i.e. turn it on when someone sits there) went bad. Also would trigger the passenger not wearing a belt when no passenger was there. That was fun to deal with. Don't know if it just broke or did my Nalgene bottle lid not being on tight leaking one time do it.
But that replacement part is only sold as the full seat cushion.
Re: Electric Vehicles
Count me in the group of folks who long fantasized about buying a Tesla but absolutely wouldn't buy one now. It may be petty, but I'd be embarrassed, even if I bought one used so didn't send money directly to Tesla/Musk.
It's true that the company has been way overvalued for a while, but that doesn't explain or excuse the drop. It's all due to Musk's behavior. I guess that's the risk of making your CEO a celebrity. I couldn't tell you the name of the CEO of any other car company.
I've mentioned that there's an electric car channel in my work's Slack. It used to be very active and about 95% about Teslas and how much everyone loves theirs. Over the last year or so, the posts have slowed waaaay down and are mostly about solar panels on homes now.
It really is shocking how much damage one guy can do to a brand. Did he really not understand who had been buying Teslas? Does he think the F-150 and Hummer crowd are now going to all want Teslas? What a fucking idiot.
It's true that the company has been way overvalued for a while, but that doesn't explain or excuse the drop. It's all due to Musk's behavior. I guess that's the risk of making your CEO a celebrity. I couldn't tell you the name of the CEO of any other car company.
I've mentioned that there's an electric car channel in my work's Slack. It used to be very active and about 95% about Teslas and how much everyone loves theirs. Over the last year or so, the posts have slowed waaaay down and are mostly about solar panels on homes now.
It really is shocking how much damage one guy can do to a brand. Did he really not understand who had been buying Teslas? Does he think the F-150 and Hummer crowd are now going to all want Teslas? What a fucking idiot.
Totally Kafkaesque
Re: Electric Vehicles
He really should've made his Cyber Truck look closer to an F-150 than what it looks like now.
mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.
Re: Electric Vehicles
The Tesla owners I know think Tesla is in a strong enough spot to survive Musk, and he'll eventually be removed from the company (I heard this before he bought Twitter, so maybe it's a bit different now). Tesla has such a strong advantage over other EV companies with their charging station infastructure, which made the owners I know believe the company will have a huge advantage until technology improves so much that those charging stations don't become as important. So hold onto that car.
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Re: Electric Vehicles
Sure seems like losing 74% of your value in one year should signal some referendum on the CEO.
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Re: Electric Vehicles
Talked my parents out of going through with their deposit on a model Y, despite all the deals Tesla was offering them to accept delivery before the end of 2022.
Until everything is less insane, I'm mixing weed with wine.
Re: Electric Vehicles
Been researching cars. Want to go electric but don't want to pay the luxury car premium. Wlu_lax_mrs test drove the Chevy Bolt yesterday. Really liked it. Found 1 pedal driving pretty natural once she got used to it. Funny that that the only difference between the EV and EUV is 4 inches of trunk space (and the styling)....and ~8K price. However, I am having a hard time even considering the $5K "market adjustment fee". Costco has "special pricing sheet" for them...be interested what that does.
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Re: Electric Vehicles
Wait....EVs only have one pedal?wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 1:15 pm Been researching cars. Want to go electric but don't want to pay the luxury car premium. Wlu_lax_mrs test drove the Chevy Bolt yesterday. Really liked it. Found 1 pedal driving pretty natural once she got used to it. Funny that that the only difference between the EV and EUV is 4 inches of trunk space (and the styling)....and ~8K price. However, I am having a hard time even considering the $5K "market adjustment fee". Costco has "special pricing sheet" for them...be interested what that does.
You know what you need? A lyrical sucker punch to the face.
Re: Electric Vehicles
A_B wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 1:16 pmWait....EVs only have one pedal?wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 1:15 pm Been researching cars. Want to go electric but don't want to pay the luxury car premium. Wlu_lax_mrs test drove the Chevy Bolt yesterday. Really liked it. Found 1 pedal driving pretty natural once she got used to it. Funny that that the only difference between the EV and EUV is 4 inches of trunk space (and the styling)....and ~8K price. However, I am having a hard time even considering the $5K "market adjustment fee". Costco has "special pricing sheet" for them...be interested what that does.
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Re: Electric Vehicles
Nah, it's like a golf cart though. No coasting. No brake while waiting at a stop light. Takes some getting used to.A_B wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 1:16 pmWait....EVs only have one pedal?wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 1:15 pm Been researching cars. Want to go electric but don't want to pay the luxury car premium. Wlu_lax_mrs test drove the Chevy Bolt yesterday. Really liked it. Found 1 pedal driving pretty natural once she got used to it. Funny that that the only difference between the EV and EUV is 4 inches of trunk space (and the styling)....and ~8K price. However, I am having a hard time even considering the $5K "market adjustment fee". Costco has "special pricing sheet" for them...be interested what that does.
Until everything is less insane, I'm mixing weed with wine.
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Re: Electric Vehicles
I see now. Still have a brake for override if needed. Learned something!
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Re: Electric Vehicles
Yep, same two pedals as an automatic ICE car, but way less manual use of the one on the left.
Until everything is less insane, I'm mixing weed with wine.
Re: Electric Vehicles
Buying an electric car? You can get a $7,500 tax credit, but it won't be easy
Gotta love how everything is made so difficult all the time for real reason.
Gotta love how everything is made so difficult all the time for real reason.
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EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.
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Re: Electric Vehicles
Well, there’s reasons. In addition to promoting EV sales, they’re also trying to promote a transition of US manufacturing to EV cars and batteries. And avoid giving even more tax breaks to the rich.Johnnie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:57 am Buying an electric car? You can get a $7,500 tax credit, but it won't be easy
Gotta love how everything is made so difficult all the time for real reason.
Then you add in the various powerful lobbies for the extra weird stuff.
The tax break is good for ten years. So theoretically, the tax break will lead to more U.S. battery and EV manufacturing. Then it’ll be more useful.
I’m curious whether there’s enough EV supply right now to even absorb a major increase in demand. Two years ago we wanted a plug-in hybrid Rav-4 and couldn’t get one.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
Re: Electric Vehicles
I've heard from a few folks currently shopping for EVs that dealerships are simply tacking on $7,500 to the price of the car. So it's become an incentive to the dealer, not the consumer. It's some bullshit.
Totally Kafkaesque
Re: Electric Vehicles
Oh, that's fucked. I think I've even read things online where the dealership just brazenly tacks on a 'dealer premium' amount to a sale because of the increase in demand.
And probably the reason why Ford wants to follow the Tesla model of ordering direct from the manufacturer and cutting out dealerships.
Fun sidenote: Ford's CEO is Chris Farley's cousin Jim. I wonder if he got a great deal on brakepads.
mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.
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Re: Electric Vehicles
Yeah, this seems to confirm that demand is still way ahead of supply right now.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: Electric Vehicles
That shots been happening for years. Dealer rebates and incentives are just shut you have to pay it seems. I never felt like I got a great deal on any vehicle ever. I just go in with a payment amount I will live with and go from there. But those fuckers are awful with that too. My first financing offer for my truck was like 900 dollars a month and they said “oh this is just for approval” and I refused to sign it until the number matched my spreadsheet. But sadly most people don’t know how to do that so they get fucked. They gave up on me and moved inventory, made their money and went to someone else to pad the bottom line.Johnnie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 2:37 pmOh, that's fucked. I think I've even read things online where the dealership just brazenly tacks on a 'dealer premium' amount to a sale because of the increase in demand.
And probably the reason why Ford wants to follow the Tesla model of ordering direct from the manufacturer and cutting out dealerships.
Fun sidenote: Ford's CEO is Chris Farley's cousin Jim. I wonder if he got a great deal on brakepads.
You know what you need? A lyrical sucker punch to the face.
Re: Electric Vehicles
From The Atlantic:
Electric Vehicles Are Bringing Out the Worst in Us
If you don't have free reads:
https://archive.is/k9czo
Maaaaaan, I just want to drive something that isn't bad for the environment!.
Electric Vehicles Are Bringing Out the Worst in Us
If you don't have free reads:
https://archive.is/k9czo
Maaaaaan, I just want to drive something that isn't bad for the environment!.
mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.
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Re: Electric Vehicles
Ride a boke or public transportation.Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 11:36 am From The Atlantic:
Electric Vehicles Are Bringing Out the Worst in Us
If you don't have free reads:
https://archive.is/k9czo
Maaaaaan, I just want to drive something that isn't bad for the environment!.
An honest to God cult of personality - formed around a failed steak salesman.
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