The Swamp

Posted: **Fri Apr 05, 2024 4:04 pm**

tennbengal wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2024 4:01 pm
Ryan wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2024 1:52 pm 11 of the starting hitters in today's TOR-NYY game are batting under .200
Someone needs to unplug Vlad and plug him back in.

Thin Vlad is just as unimpressive as fat Vlad. At least fat Vlad was having a good time. Thin Vlad just looks sad most of the time now.

Posted: **Sun Apr 07, 2024 2:13 pm**

Angel Hernandez man. Just fucking egregious and not a damn thing will happen to him.

Posted: **Sun Apr 07, 2024 3:58 pm**

I was listening to a good portion while driving but since Sterling can’t see, they weren’t really going in on Hernandez. Squeezing pitchers early (when both teams had bases loaded walks) or something else?

Posted: **Sun Apr 07, 2024 4:01 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 3:58 pm I was listening to a good portion while driving but since Sterling can’t see, they weren’t really going in on Hernandez. Squeezing pitchers early (when both teams had bases loaded walks) or something else?

Posted: **Sun Apr 07, 2024 5:04 pm**

Angel Hernandez is the only thing all fans, no matter the age, agree with among the 30 fanbases.

Posted: **Sun Apr 07, 2024 5:06 pm**

Thursday in a Tigers-Mets game, Hernandez called a strike on Torkelson, who was apparently being hit on the hand (replays made it look like the ball missed him and Torkelson was trying to get on base - this clip shows no change in flight of the ball). Hernandez called a strike without gesturing that it was a foul ball, which would have been off the knob of the bat. The Mets' announcers could not believe it (although the only clip I can quickly find is Benetti and Craig Monroe in the Tigers' booth).

Posted: **Mon Apr 08, 2024 6:31 am**

Yordan Alvarez is exactly who we all thought Vlad was going to be.

tennbengal wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2024 4:01 pm Someone needs to unplug Vlad and plug him back in.

Posted: **Mon Apr 08, 2024 9:36 am**

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 5:04 pm Angel Hernandez is the only thing all fans, no matter the age, agree with among the 30 fanbases.

It almost looks like he called the pitch as a fuck you to Torres for giving up on it without at all realizing why Torres gave up on it. It must suck so much shit to be on the same crew as him.

Posted: **Mon Apr 08, 2024 10:00 am**

MaxWebster wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2024 6:31 am Yordan Alvarez is exactly who we all thought Vlad was going to be.

tennbengal wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2024 4:01 pm Someone needs to unplug Vlad and plug him back in.

Vlad is a bust comparatively to his near triple crown year. But we know there are extenuating circumstances (his mom’s situation) which is playing into this. But even at his bottom he’s a serviceable player. Some team will pay him well, so the Jays kinda have to make a decision in the next few months what they want to do with him as his season plays out. We know he’s not worth a 7 year deal and given this past offseason we know a team is unlikely to give him a contract for that long. But a four year offer is definitely in the cards from someone. So do you do four years at $22M or do you trade him? Personally I really don’t know what to do with him.

Posted: **Mon Apr 08, 2024 10:10 am**

It seems like one of those situations where your own advanced scouting team should have a big say. Is there something other pitchers have figured out that Vlad can't overcome or, like you said, is it outside stuff and there's reason to believe the .300/.400/.600 guy is going to be back. Lots of Cody Bellinger in there, although the lows haven't been nearly as low.

Posted: **Mon Apr 08, 2024 10:22 am**

that's the toughest part. he's a fine player in a vacuum but you can't escape the projections and sadly the hype. and that one killer season. he's still so young too but ... ?

idk. i'm not reactionary wrt sports possibly to a fault but i finally hit a point this week where i think the front office has got to entertain the thought of making a move on him at some point - maybe soon.

Posted: **Mon Apr 08, 2024 10:31 am**

MaxWebster wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2024 10:22 am that's the toughest part. he's a fine player in a vacuum but you can't escape the projections and sadly the hype. and that one killer season. he's still so young too but ... ?

idk. i'm not reactionary wrt sports possibly to a fault but i finally hit a point this week where i think the front office has got to entertain the thought of making a move on him at some point - maybe soon.

As someone who went $27 at auction on him...this view is giving me hives.

Posted: **Mon Apr 08, 2024 10:37 am**

lol i hear you. i was perhaps hoping rather than projecting but in our points h2h league i took him round 2, 11th overall

Posted: **Wed Apr 10, 2024 4:18 am**

Posted: **Wed Apr 10, 2024 6:38 am**

It is still a weird delay, but glad it is happening. Now do Kjerstad. And Mayo.

Posted: **Wed Apr 10, 2024 6:56 am**

I really hope the next CBA the players address these shenanigans. Push the date to mid-season or so and put some pressure on teams to promote earlier in the season or risk keeping a better player out longer.

Or maybe do what the NBA does and tie it to the awards. Like if they make an all-rookie team then he automatically gets a service year.

Posted: **Wed Apr 10, 2024 8:28 am**

someone else can fill in details better than i can but i'm pretty sure the newest CBA did address these - in fact by him getting called up today he *does* get a full year of service time. I think it's something about if he finishes top X in ROY the team gets a bonus draft pick?

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 6:56 am I really hope the next CBA the players address these shenanigans. Push the date to mid-season or so and put some pressure on teams to promote earlier in the season or risk keeping a better player out longer.

Or maybe do what the NBA does and tie it to the awards. Like if they make an all-rookie team then he automatically gets a service year.

Posted: **Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:26 am**

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 6:56 am I really hope the next CBA the players address these shenanigans. Push the date to mid-season or so and put some pressure on teams to promote earlier in the season or risk keeping a better player out longer.

Or maybe do what the NBA does and tie it to the awards. Like if they make an all-rookie team then he automatically gets a service year.

It wouldn't happen because neither the teams or the current MLB players would benefit, but service time should be tied to draft date, not actual MLB games played.

Posted: **Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:29 am**

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:26 am
L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 6:56 am I really hope the next CBA the players address these shenanigans. Push the date to mid-season or so and put some pressure on teams to promote earlier in the season or risk keeping a better player out longer.

Or maybe do what the NBA does and tie it to the awards. Like if they make an all-rookie team then he automatically gets a service year.
It wouldn't happen because neither the teams or the current MLB players would benefit, but service time should be tied to draft date, not actual MLB games played.

And if you make your team's post season roster it should count as a full year.

Posted: **Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:43 am**

The Athletic wrote:If Holliday wins the American League Rookie of the Year, the Orioles won’t gain the draft compensation for having him on the roster all season, but Holliday will still be eligible to earn an extra year of service time if he finishes first or second in the Rookie of the Year voting, meaning that keeping him in the minor leagues for a few weeks won’t automatically give the Orioles an extra year of control for Holliday. The new rules were designed to prevent teams from keeping players in the minor leagues for a few weeks at the start of a season to manipulate their service time.

Posted: **Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:56 am**

MaxWebster wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:43 am
The Athletic wrote:If Holliday wins the American League Rookie of the Year, the Orioles won’t gain the draft compensation for having him on the roster all season, but Holliday will still be eligible to earn an extra year of service time if he finishes first or second in the Rookie of the Year voting, meaning that keeping him in the minor leagues for a few weeks won’t automatically give the Orioles an extra year of control for Holliday. The new rules were designed to prevent teams from keeping players in the minor leagues for a few weeks at the start of a season to manipulate their service time.

Pretty sure this is incorrect.

The Prospect Promotion Incentive states that if a player promoted within the first two weeks of the start of the season finishes top 2 in ROY, the team earns a draft pick. Surprised The Athletic hasn't corrected their mistake.

They'll lose the pick if they send him back down (but they'd also regain a year of control).

I have a feeling Holliday might've agreed to an unreported contract extension buying out his arb years and making this team control talk moot.

Posted: **Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:38 pm**

oh weird ok so the *team* gets a draft pick if he's 1/2 for ROY - ok.

i've read a little that they were trying to avoid the first 2 weeks of heavily facing lefties and working on D which i'd immediately roll my eyes at if they didn't call him up a day before he would have lost a year of service (again, assuming he's not sent back down).

at any rate - it's always pretty exciting following the hype - i'll be watching.

Posted: **Wed Apr 10, 2024 2:06 pm**

Starting at 2B tonight and batting 9th.

Posted: **Wed Apr 10, 2024 5:19 pm**

Kemp is the guy DFA’d for Holliday.

Posted: **Wed Apr 10, 2024 5:20 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 5:19 pm

Kemp is the guy DFA’d for Holliday.

If he clears waivers he has the opportunity to accept an assignment in Norfolk.

Posted: **Wed Apr 10, 2024 5:23 pm**

Jackson was 9 years old when Olney tweeted that.

Posted: **Wed Apr 10, 2024 6:01 pm**

Crazy that Matt Holliday was in the big leagues in 2018, and now his kid is there.

Posted: **Wed Apr 10, 2024 8:35 pm**

sancarlos wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 6:01 pm Crazy that Matt Holliday was in the big leagues in 2018, and now his kid is there.

Griffey Jr and Sr played on the same team.

Posted: **Wed Apr 10, 2024 8:37 pm**

To change the subject I love all the hand-wringing about pitcher injuries where the fact that the trend of velocity and spin rate being the two most important factors in shutting down hitters are also what can turn your UCL into an udon noodle with one pitch.

Posted: **Wed Apr 10, 2024 8:43 pm**

Knowing that (1) the pitch clock isn’t going away and (2) pitchers will never voluntarily ramp it down, I’m increasingly convinced 3 pitch walks is the solve.

Posted: **Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:08 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 8:43 pm Knowing that (1) the pitch clock isn’t going away and (2) pitchers will never voluntarily ramp it down, I’m increasingly convinced 3 pitch walks is the solve.

I don’t know about the latter but you’re absolutely right about the first two. The (literal) payoff to be able to defeat the best hitters in the world is worth the risk to anyone. And I’m not at all convinced the pitch clock is at all to blame. Pitchers before the 90s worked as fast if not faster without a clock but they didn’t have the velocity/spin today’s pitchers do.

Posted: **Thu Apr 11, 2024 7:21 am**

I would love a follow up to Passan's The Arm.

Posted: **Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:11 am**

brian wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:08 pmPitchers before the 90s worked as fast if not faster without a clock but they didn’t have the velocity/spin today’s pitchers do.

But I think that's it. Even before considering repertoire changes, pitchers before the 90s intentionally paced themselves. All but a handful of pitchers today would get destroyed if they tried to pitch the 3rd inning like they were concerned about making it through the 7th. Even 3-5 lost seconds between pitches adds up when every pitch is at or near max effort.

Posted: **Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:53 am**

IMO anything pitchers did before the year 2000 is anecdotal at best, or just irrelevant to today.

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:11 am
brian wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:08 pmPitchers before the 90s worked as fast if not faster without a clock but they didn’t have the velocity/spin today’s pitchers do.
But I think that's it. Even before considering repertoire changes, pitchers before the 90s intentionally paced themselves. All but a handful of pitchers today would get destroyed if they tried to pitch the 3rd inning like they were concerned about making it through the 7th. Even 3-5 lost seconds between pitches adds up when every pitch is at or near max effort.

This is why the MLBPA’s response in’t necessarily wrong re: their statement about pitch clocks. The social media reaction to it is a lesson in groupthink.

Posted: **Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:59 am**

agreed with the idea/theory(/fact?) that pitchers no longer pace themselves but this was interesting:

Posted: **Thu Apr 11, 2024 10:11 am**

I think this is what is screwing Manoah for example, not enough rest time between pitches with the new clock.

Sports is now max effort all the time. Why have a starting pitcher pace himself to pitch 9 innings when you can get 5 pitchers to pitch 9 innings all fresh and throwing 95+ fastballs and 85+ sliders. Plus, analytics, 3rd time through the order etc...

Same with hockey, over 1 minute slow paced shifts have turned into 40 second balls to the wall shifts.

Posted: **Thu Apr 11, 2024 10:17 am**

Restrictor plates is the best solution I have

Posted: **Thu Apr 11, 2024 12:48 pm**

It is kind of shocking/amusing when you read about pitchers throwing extra-inning complete games in the olden days.

A pitcher named Jim Brosnan were diary books of his 1962/63(?) seasons (I own both books - they are like Jim Bouton’s Ball Four, without the salacious parts). Brosnan talks about how everybody basically thought you were a pussy if you got too tired to throw a complete game.

Posted: **Thu Apr 11, 2024 3:50 pm**

Hunter Brown giving up 11 hits (or 12 baserunners) has to be something close to a modern record for a single inning (2/3 really), right?

Posted: **Thu Apr 11, 2024 6:57 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 3:50 pm Hunter Brown giving up 11 hits (or 12 baserunners) has to be something close to a modern record for a single inning (2/3 really), right?

Guy in booth wrote:There's obviously something wrong with him. He's taken off his shoes and one of his socks...and... actually, I think he's crying.

The Swamp

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