The Swamp

Don’t think we have a thread for this yet so let’s get it started with a Jimmy Garoppolo suspension for PEDs. Two games but means he’s getting cut from the Raiders

Raiders obviously not sad to see him go.

So really they were just drugs since his performance wasn’t enhanced?

bfj wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:20 am So really they were just drugs since his performance wasn’t enhanced?

That's funny.

Ain’t gonna have Russell Wilson to kick around in Denver any more. An expensive divorce. Denver has to take a $85 million dead cap hit.

I think the cap hit is over two years but yeesh.

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 5:51 pm I think the cap hit over two years but yeesh.

Yes that’s true and important to know but yeesh is accurate.

I don’t get the move personally. If they had someone waiting in the wings maybe but seems like they’d be better trying to make it work with Wilson even if they draft someone like JJ McCarthy.

What if he's bad now and miserable or tedious to be around and a huge dork?

BRONCOS COUNTRY.

WE TRIED.

mister d wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 5:57 pm What if he's bad now and miserable or tedious to be around and a huge dork?

He’s still probably league-average at worst but yeah this seems like a situation where he and Payton didn’t mesh and Payton won the power struggle.

Wilson's dead cap number is the same if they release him this year vs. next fwiw

I still don’t see the logic without having a replacement in place (unless they were picking #1 overall perhaps) but that puts it in some perspective.

I’ll be curious to see how Wilson does wherever he lands next year. I suppose that’s the big question. Does he have anything left in the tank or is the Denver coaching staff incompetent?

ETA: Or maybe to be more fair did they mis-utilize Wilson.

20 million in 24. Tends to influence people who like employment

brian wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 9:02 pm I still don’t see the logic without having a replacement in place (unless they were picking #1 overall perhaps) but that puts it in some perspective.

Because you’re not competing in 2024 either way and now you’re cap clean in 2026 rather than $30MM down? Seems like an easy call.

He must have been a clubhouse ebola.

mister d wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 9:31 pm

brian wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 9:02 pm I still don’t see the logic without having a replacement in place (unless they were picking #1 overall perhaps) but that puts it in some perspective.

Because you’re not competing in 2024 either way and now you’re cap clean in 2026 rather than $30MM down? Seems like an easy call.

It seems like the smart move, taking the quick hit of salary cap hell to help in the future, but coaches and owners who live season to season don't want to usually do that.

Speaking of owners, the Krafts and the leftovers trying to blame the last few years on just Belichick, even though they were a big part of the problem, is not going to go well.

mister d wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 9:31 pm

brian wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 9:02 pm I still don’t see the logic without having a replacement in place (unless they were picking #1 overall perhaps) but that puts it in some perspective.

Because you’re not competing in 2024 either way and now you’re cap clean in 2026 rather than $30MM down? Seems like an easy call.

I don’t think it’s quite that simple because I think they likely ARE better with Wilson in 2024 at least and maybe even 2025 than with random QB and they had an out in 2026 with only a $31M cap hit.

They’re essentially deciding to eat $55M in cap space without any concrete plan to improve the position.

ETA: Though as Bronto implied the only two decisions were to cut him now or in 2026.

I will say it’s an interesting discussion though because it shows just how damaging it is to have an average QB on a big cap hit. Denver is basically pinning all its hopes on JJ McCarthy (or Bo Nix?) being the guy because this ensures they can’t spend on someone like Kirk Cousins or Mayfield.

Tough times for us Bronco fans. Where are you, Bobby P?

brian wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:31 pmI don’t think it’s quite that simple because I think they likely ARE better with Wilson in 2024 at least and maybe even 2025 than with random QB and they had an out in 2026 with only a $31M cap hit.

I’m sure they would be better but that too would be bad.

yup. the difference between an uncompetitive 8-9 vs. 5-11 or whatever is minimal with a quarterback on a contract like that

whoever signs Wilson will be getting a financial steal since he'll play for the vet minimum (Denver will pay the offset so there's no incentive for him to take anything more). he *could* be fun in a place like Atlanta. I would not understand the play in Las Vegas. that would feel a lot like the same situation he was just in.

brian wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 6:09 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 5:57 pm What if he's bad now and miserable or tedious to be around and a huge dork?

He’s still probably league-average at worst but yeah this seems like a situation where he and Payton didn’t mesh and Payton won the power struggle.

He refuses to run an offense or pass up an easy 8 yard gain on 3rd and 13, I'd want nothing to do with 2024 Russ Wilson

2024 Russell Wilson is exhibit A in the argument against box score scouting. Him and Derek Carr put up twin masterpieces in 2023.

At my age I prefer when athletes go out on their own terms and with some gas left in the tank, so Jason Kelce’s retirement makes me happy overall as a sports fan, even if it’s a short-term knock on the team I root for.

I don’t know how many teams this would make this claim, especially one that’s over 90 years old like the Eagles, but two of their top ten players all time are centers, including arguably its best all time.

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 8:15 am …whoever signs Wilson will be getting a financial steal since he'll play for the vet minimum (Denver will pay the offset so there's no incentive for him to take anything more). he *could* be fun in a place like Atlanta. I would not understand the play in Las Vegas. that would feel a lot like the same situation he was just in.

Wait, really? Denver guaranteed his 2024 salary? Or does he have a roster bonus that he’s getting paid prior to his cut?

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 8:15 amyup. the difference between an uncompetitive 8-9 vs. 5-11 or whatever is minimal with a quarterback on a contract like that.

May as well take advantage of the cheaper rookie contracts. Denver has no 5th-rounder, but an extra 6th in 2025 draft, and zero reason to try to be competitive right now. Had the tenth-oldest roster in the league last season (Patrick Surtain II and Jerry Jeudy are their lone big-names who are free agents after the 2024 season who are currently in their 20's), so a reset to get younger/cheaper now makes sense.

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 8:50 amI don’t know how many teams this would make this claim, especially one that’s over 90 years old like the Eagles, but two of their top ten players all time are centers, including arguably its best all time.

I believe 2 of the top 6 Steelers in PFR's Hall of Fame monitor score are centers (1st and 3rd ranked ones at that) and another one is a guard.

Ryan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 9:29 am

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 8:50 amI don’t know how many teams this would make this claim, especially one that’s over 90 years old like the Eagles, but two of their top ten players all time are centers, including arguably its best all time.

I believe 2 of the top 6 Steelers in PFR's Hall of Fame monitor score are centers (1st and 3rd ranked ones at that) and another one is a guard.

I was thinking of the Steelers with Mike Webster, but I don't know if Dermontti Dawson is a top ten Steeler all time more because I'm not intimately familiar with their history pre-Steel Curtain. GPJ? J-Lo?

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 9:33 am

Ryan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 9:29 am

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 8:50 amI don’t know how many teams this would make this claim, especially one that’s over 90 years old like the Eagles, but two of their top ten players all time are centers, including arguably its best all time.

I believe 2 of the top 6 Steelers in PFR's Hall of Fame monitor score are centers (1st and 3rd ranked ones at that) and another one is a guard.

I was thinking of the Steelers with Mike Webster, but I don't know if Dermontti Dawson is a top ten Steeler all time more because I'm not intimately familiar with their history pre-Steel Curtain. GPJ? J-Lo?

He is.


Dawson was doing that pulling shit Kelce gets lauded for decades ago.

Thought it was indicative of the pats failures that Stanley Morgan still leads in all time receiving with 10,000. Turns out someone named Johnny Morris leads the Bears in all time receiving in the 50-60s with barely 5,000. Yuk

A_B wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 9:50 amDawson was doing that pulling shit Kelce gets lauded for decades ago.

Any skilled enough to make a James Van Der Beek + Taylor Swift joke here?

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 10:07 am

A_B wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 9:50 amDawson was doing that pulling shit Kelce gets lauded for decades ago.

Any skilled enough to make a James Van Der Beek + Taylor Swift joke here?

Too many steps to link together, but I like the thought.

I love that Jason's wife is so Philly that she won't wear Chiefs gear at Travis' games.

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 9:33 am

Ryan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 9:29 am

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 8:50 amI don’t know how many teams this would make this claim, especially one that’s over 90 years old like the Eagles, but two of their top ten players all time are centers, including arguably its best all time.

I believe 2 of the top 6 Steelers in PFR's Hall of Fame monitor score are centers (1st and 3rd ranked ones at that) and another one is a guard.

I was thinking of the Steelers with Mike Webster, but I don't know if Dermontti Dawson is a top ten Steeler all time more because I'm not intimately familiar with their history pre-Steel Curtain. GPJ? J-Lo?

He's probably at the back end if you ignore positional value, but that's only because they've had so many good players. Like, he's probably a top 3 Arizona Cardinal all-time.

HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 9:53 am Thought it was indicative of the pats failures that Stanley Morgan still leads in all time receiving with 10,000. Turns out someone named Johnny Morris leads the Bears in all time receiving in the 50-60s with barely 5,000. Yuk

Check out the Bears all-time QB leaderboards, they are absolutely hilarious

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 9:22 am

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 8:15 am …whoever signs Wilson will be getting a financial steal since he'll play for the vet minimum (Denver will pay the offset so there's no incentive for him to take anything more). he *could* be fun in a place like Atlanta. I would not understand the play in Las Vegas. that would feel a lot like the same situation he was just in.

Wait, really? Denver guaranteed his 2024 salary? Or does he have a roster bonus that he’s getting paid prior to his cut?

yes, as part of the extension, he's guaranteed $39M no matter what

Jets should sign him and let their QB room break the Dork-O-Meter.

Ryan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 9:29 am

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 8:50 amI don’t know how many teams this would make this claim, especially one that’s over 90 years old like the Eagles, but two of their top ten players all time are centers, including arguably its best all time.

I believe 2 of the top 6 Steelers in PFR's Hall of Fame monitor score are centers (1st and 3rd ranked ones at that) and another one is a guard.

And Pouncey is #8. Steelers have had some good centers.

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 12:26 pm Jets should sign him and let their QB room break the Dork-O-Meter.

I'm thinking Rodgers is more of a prick than a dork, but YMMV.

The word I would use for both would be "insufferable"

Gunpowder wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 11:40 am

HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 9:53 am Thought it was indicative of the pats failures that Stanley Morgan still leads in all time receiving with 10,000. Turns out someone named Johnny Morris leads the Bears in all time receiving in the 50-60s with barely 5,000. Yuk

Check out the Bears all-time QB leaderboards, they are absolutely hilarious

I knew it was bad, but wow!

Top 5 in yardage: Cutler (by a mile), Sid Luckman (who played in the '40s, Harbaugh(!), McMahon and Trubisky.