Random Politics

[Jerloma]

I feel like the obvious question here is just "How many dead kids does it take to avenge the atrocities of 10/7? (and yes, fuck Hamas to hell for that shit) But clearly the answer to all the dead kids is 10/7. So how many? Give us a number.

It sounds like a loaded question, but is it? There's like 17,000 dead kids at this point. Either there is no limit to the amount of dead kids that will make it permissible to condemn Israel without being accused of anti-semitism or there is. So what's your number? 25? 30? Do you need to know how many kids are available to kill in Gaza before you answer that question?

[EdRomero]

So where was this vitriol in the protests against Iraq? Lots of vandalism against yellow ribbons like the vandalism against signs begging that kidnapped Israeli children get to go back home? How many Afghan and Iraqi kids is it ok to murder to make up for 9/11? The US has backed a lot of questionable regimes, but there is something about this one that brings in more intensity and hatred. Wonder what that could be.

Hell, we're still in a proxy war with Iran because they held a US hostages over 40 years ago. Maybe give Israel a few months as they're dealing with hostages that still haven't been released.

[Jerloma]

So where was this vitriol in the protests against Iraq? Lots of vandalism against yellow ribbons like the vandalism against signs begging that kidnapped Israeli children get to go back home? How many Afghan and Iraqi kids is it ok to murder to make up for 9/11? The US has backed a lot of questionable regimes, but there is something about this one that brings in more intensity and hatred. Wonder what that could be.

Hell, we're still in a proxy war with Iran because they held a US hostages over 40 years ago. Maybe give Israel a few months as they're dealing with hostages that still haven't been released.

Well the dead kid answer is always zero as far as I'm concerned but this is a good question. I feel like I should remember 20 years ago better but as I recall they sold us that war with a bunch of fear and the idea that "they hate our freedom" and it became so pervasive that if you dared question it you were accused not of antisemitism of course, but of hating our troops or some shit like that. It was a time of such radical patriotism that you had to be really careful about anything resembling an objection. But then we found out that the whole thing was based on a big, fat lie and it had nothing to do with avenging 9/11 and then didn't people start (justifiably) protesting?

[A_B]

I was in 7th/8th grade when that war was getting riled up. I remember my mom being against it, but she's been a dove her whole life, or at least since the several friends' names eventually ended up on a black wall in DC. One of my best friends was hostage in Kuwait for some time (or at least unable to get out, so hostage might not be the right word, but it was due to the war), and I wanted him and his family to come back as soon as possible. Other than that, I just assumed that's how things worked. Other people did bad things (WMDs!) so the good guys (U.S.?) have to crack some skulls.

God what a fucking idiot.

[Shirley]

So where was this vitriol in the protests against Iraq? Lots of vandalism against yellow ribbons like the vandalism against signs begging that kidnapped Israeli children get to go back home? How many Afghan and Iraqi kids is it ok to murder to make up for 9/11? The US has backed a lot of questionable regimes, but there is something about this one that brings in more intensity and hatred. Wonder what that could be.

Hell, we're still in a proxy war with Iran because they held a US hostages over 40 years ago. Maybe give Israel a few months as they're dealing with hostages that still haven't been released.

Of course all war is bad one way or the other. But to imply that all wars are the same is ridiculous. I don't recall that we rounded up millions of Iraqis or Afghans and made them live in a tiny area for several decades. And then started bombing the shit out of them where they lived and also wouldn't let them leave. False equivalency is the laziest of arguments.

[EdRomero]

So where was this vitriol in the protests against Iraq? Lots of vandalism against yellow ribbons like the vandalism against signs begging that kidnapped Israeli children get to go back home? How many Afghan and Iraqi kids is it ok to murder to make up for 9/11? The US has backed a lot of questionable regimes, but there is something about this one that brings in more intensity and hatred. Wonder what that could be.

Hell, we're still in a proxy war with Iran because they held a US hostages over 40 years ago. Maybe give Israel a few months as they're dealing with hostages that still haven't been released.

Of course all war is bad one way or the other. But to imply that all wars are the same is ridiculous. I don't recall that we rounded up millions of Iraqis or Afghans and made them live in a tiny area for several decades. And then started bombing the shit out of them where they lived and also wouldn't let them leave. False equivalency is the laziest of arguments.

Yeah those were peaceful bombs destroying villages in Vietnam and hospitals and weddings in Iraq. Nobody is implying it's the same but to have this recent degree of hatred in the protests compared to the past is concerning.

[DSafetyGuy]

So where was this vitriol in the protests against Iraq? Lots of vandalism against yellow ribbons like the vandalism against signs begging that kidnapped Israeli children get to go back home? How many Afghan and Iraqi kids is it ok to murder to make up for 9/11? The US has backed a lot of questionable regimes, but there is something about this one that brings in more intensity and hatred. Wonder what that could be.

Hell, we're still in a proxy war with Iran because they held a US hostages over 40 years ago. Maybe give Israel a few months as they're dealing with hostages that still haven't been released.

I do not intend to oversimplify the reaction to 9/11, but I think a lot of what happened at that time was wrapped up in "the first foreign attack on American soil since..."

[Johnnie]

And the memes are fire:

[Shirley]

So where was this vitriol in the protests against Iraq? Lots of vandalism against yellow ribbons like the vandalism against signs begging that kidnapped Israeli children get to go back home? How many Afghan and Iraqi kids is it ok to murder to make up for 9/11? The US has backed a lot of questionable regimes, but there is something about this one that brings in more intensity and hatred. Wonder what that could be.

Hell, we're still in a proxy war with Iran because they held a US hostages over 40 years ago. Maybe give Israel a few months as they're dealing with hostages that still haven't been released.

Of course all war is bad one way or the other. But to imply that all wars are the same is ridiculous. I don't recall that we rounded up millions of Iraqis or Afghans and made them live in a tiny area for several decades. And then started bombing the shit out of them where they lived and also wouldn't let them leave. False equivalency is the laziest of arguments.

Yeah those were peaceful bombs destroying villages in Vietnam and hospitals and weddings in Iraq. Nobody is implying it's the same but to have this recent degree of hatred in the protests compared to the past is concerning.

Now we're talking about Vietnam? And you did imply it was the same. Unless your "wonder what that could be" was talking about the very different bombing scenarios and not anti-semitism.

[Steve of phpBB]

The US has backed a lot of questionable regimes, but there is something about this one that brings in more intensity and hatred. Wonder what that could be.

There's no reason to think the intensity and hatred is evidence of anti-Semitism.

The US wars on Iraq and Afghanistan were twenty-plus years ago. The US conduct of those wars is nowhere near as brutal as the Israeli conduct in this one.

Also, protestors in 2003 didn't have social media to unite them or to put them in an echo chamber where more extreme opinions get magnified and become normalized.

And why are left-leaning people more upset with Israel than some other random country? For the same reason we were more upset 35-40 years ago with South Africa than other random countries. Because like South Africa, Israel is not some random country. They are "us". Like us, they descend institutionally and demographically from Europe and Europeans. And like us, they are supported by US taxpayer dollars.

So like the South Africa situation, this is basically white European people brutalizing non-whites.

And yes, there are many people who don't consider Israelis (Jews) to be white. Those are the real anti-semites.

(I saw a tweet way back pointing out that the left hates Israel because Jews are white, while the right hates Jews because they are not white.)

[The Sybian]

The US has backed a lot of questionable regimes, but there is something about this one that brings in more intensity and hatred. Wonder what that could be.

There's no reason to think the intensity and hatred is evidence of anti-Semitism.

The US wars on Iraq and Afghanistan were twenty-plus years ago. The US conduct of those wars is nowhere near as brutal as the Israeli conduct in this one.

Also, protestors in 2003 didn't have social media to unite them or to put them in an echo chamber where more extreme opinions get magnified and become normalized.

And why are left-leaning people more upset with Israel than some other random country? For the same reason we were more upset 35-40 years ago with South Africa than other random countries. Because like South Africa, Israel is not some random country. They are "us". Like us, they descend institutionally and demographically from Europe and Europeans. And like us, they are supported by US taxpayer dollars.

So like the South Africa situation, this is basically white European people brutalizing non-whites.

And yes, there are many people who don't consider Israelis (Jews) to be white. Those are the real anti-semites.

(I saw a tweet way back pointing out that the left hates Israel because Jews are white, while the right hates Jews because they are not white.)

Legit question, are Sephardic Jews White? I never considered this question, but I think ethnically they are pretty much the same as Arabs, just with one less prophet, and Arabs are considered Brown, right? I do love the tweet you referenced, lot of truth to that.

[Steve of phpBB]

The US has backed a lot of questionable regimes, but there is something about this one that brings in more intensity and hatred. Wonder what that could be.

There's no reason to think the intensity and hatred is evidence of anti-Semitism.

The US wars on Iraq and Afghanistan were twenty-plus years ago. The US conduct of those wars is nowhere near as brutal as the Israeli conduct in this one.

Also, protestors in 2003 didn't have social media to unite them or to put them in an echo chamber where more extreme opinions get magnified and become normalized.

And why are left-leaning people more upset with Israel than some other random country? For the same reason we were more upset 35-40 years ago with South Africa than other random countries. Because like South Africa, Israel is not some random country. They are "us". Like us, they descend institutionally and demographically from Europe and Europeans. And like us, they are supported by US taxpayer dollars.

So like the South Africa situation, this is basically white European people brutalizing non-whites.

And yes, there are many people who don't consider Israelis (Jews) to be white. Those are the real anti-semites.

(I saw a tweet way back pointing out that the left hates Israel because Jews are white, while the right hates Jews because they are not white.)

Legit question, are Sephardic Jews White? I never considered this question, but I think ethnically they are pretty much the same as Arabs, just with one less prophet, and Arabs are considered Brown, right? I do love the tweet you referenced, lot of truth to that.

If they're fighting Arabs, they're white.

[Jerloma]

And yes, there are many people who don't consider Israelis (Jews) to be white. Those are the real anti-semites.

(I saw a tweet way back pointing out that the left hates Israel because Jews are white, while the right hates Jews because they are not white.)

Judaism is a religion; not a race. As far as Israel, it's diverse in regards to race. There are a bunch of European Jews there and a whole lot more Middle Eastern Jews that are most certainly not Caucasian, except Jesus of course.

[EdRomero]

The US has backed a lot of questionable regimes, but there is something about this one that brings in more intensity and hatred. Wonder what that could be.

There's no reason to think the intensity and hatred is evidence of anti-Semitism.

The US wars on Iraq and Afghanistan were twenty-plus years ago. The US conduct of those wars is nowhere near as brutal as the Israeli conduct in this one.

Also, protestors in 2003 didn't have social media to unite them or to put them in an echo chamber where more extreme opinions get magnified and become normalized.

And why are left-leaning people more upset with Israel than some other random country? For the same reason we were more upset 35-40 years ago with South Africa than other random countries. Because like South Africa, Israel is not some random country. They are "us". Like us, they descend institutionally and demographically from Europe and Europeans. And like us, they are supported by US taxpayer dollars.

So like the South Africa situation, this is basically white European people brutalizing non-whites.

And yes, there are many people who don't consider Israelis (Jews) to be white. Those are the real anti-semites.

(I saw a tweet way back pointing out that the left hates Israel because Jews are white, while the right hates Jews because they are not white.)

So the rise of antisemitism in the country and the intensity of these protests are coincidental? Just Google antisemitism protests and there are examples of protesters cheering for Hamas, harassing Jewish students, etc. The good news is most people in these protests condemn this antisemitism but it's sad it has be said at all

And, sorry, I'm having a tough time getting past all the vandalism against "Bring the hostages home" posters. I work in a strong Israeli population and the attacks affected them personally, and in this community the signs were burned, blacked out, and destroyed. Help me find a comparable action where the victims of an terrorism are attacked so quickly.

I agree with your points about the social media age and the stronger connections the US has towards Israel and South Africa (wait, are we allowed to talk about that or is it too long ago?). Still the intensity of these protests compared to the silence about current atrocities. For example, US companies and universities are happy to do business with China who has a literal concentration camp right now among there several other issues. Sure, China is "not like us" like Israel, but we live in a strong enough information age to create maybe 1% of the noise tabout this that the protests against Israel are making.

[Steve of phpBB]

I think you have the causation backwards, or at least incorrect. Yes, those terrible hateful things are being said, but people aren't protesting Israel more than China because they think Jews are more odious than the Chinese or other people. People are saying terrible hateful things because they are reacting to the brutal reprisals on the Palestinians, which these people see as a powerful western country against a non-white underdog.

The same mindset behind casual claims that police forces are just modern day slave patrols, or that the US genocided the Indians is behind much of the protests. Then you add the frustration and radicalization. A Venn diagram showing people who say "Israel should be disbanded" and "abolish the police" would be pretty circular.

I think the same reasoning is behind the destruction of "free the hostages" posters. People tearing those signs down aren't looking at the hostages as victims of terrorism, but rather as an excuse for Israel to kill Palestinians.

And for what it's worth, I think much of the motivation for posting the signs isn't really about the hostages. Does someone posting the sign genuinely think that "if I post this sign, it is more likely that the hostages will be freed"? I think it's more a statement of position: "I'm on Israel's side." So people who are on "the Palestinians' side" tear those posters down. I don't think it's because there's a specific hatred or suspicion of Jews.

(If Israel was populated by Boers instead of Jews, do you think the protests would be any less vehement?)

I'm sure I've said this before - people have lost their fucking minds over this. People on the Israeli side and people on the anti-Israeli side. I had to stop following Charles Gaba on Twitter, one of my favorites for years, because he was heavily cheerleading the Israeli invasion and routinely mocking people who were doing anything to protest it. I even had an exchange with him where his basic reasoning was "What else can Israel do?" It was so disappointing. And I've also had to unfollow a lot of non-white people whose feeds have become so heavily anti-Israeli.

Apologies if I've said this before, but one problem is that there is a huge divide between people who have seen Israel as an underdog and those who have only seen Israel as a bully. I grew up on tales of the Holocaust, the attack on the Munich athletes, the raid on Entebbe, Leon Klinghoffer and the Achille Lauro, the 1973 War, etc. But someone who is under 45 and isn't Jewish has seen Israel in a completely different light. They see Israel as a proxy for western colonialism, the greatest evil ever to grace the world.

[The Sybian]

Apologies if I've said this before, but one problem is that there is a huge divide between people who have seen Israel as an underdog and those who have only seen Israel as a bully. I grew up on tales of the Holocaust, the attack on the Munich athletes, the raid on Entebbe, Leon Klinghoffer and the Achille Lauro, the 1973 War, etc. But someone who is under 45 and isn't Jewish has seen Israel in a completely different light. They see Israel as a proxy for western colonialism, the greatest evil ever to grace the world.

Great take, but this last paragraph especially hit home in explaining the radically different views on Israel.

[Steve of phpBB]

Why did people walk out on Seinfeld at that graduation?

Has he made any public statements about Gaza?

Or is it because he's, you know, ...

[Giff]

An idiot who blames the left for why nothing on network TV is funny anymore?

[govmentchedda]

Why did people walk out on Seinfeld at that graduation?

Has he made any public statements about Gaza?

Or is it because he's, you know, ...

He's recently become a bit more vocal in his support for Israel, and his wife is reported to have been behind the financial backing of the group of counter protesters at UCLA in the last week or so.

[The Sybian]

Why did people walk out on Seinfeld at that graduation?

Has he made any public statements about Gaza?

Or is it because he's, you know, ...

I heard he’s made comments supporting Israel, but I haven’t heard the actual comments.

[govmentchedda]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/04/us/p ... ntity.html

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jessica-s ... ts-at-ucla

[Steve of phpBB]

OK, I guess the story about his wife at least makes this something better than "he's notably Jewish".

[mister d]

[Jerloma]

This is like Doctors without Borders or something to that effect? How are they trapped? IDF trying to kill them too?

[DSafetyGuy]

This is like Doctors without Borders or something to that effect? How are they trapped? IDF trying to kill them too?

They've been pretty indiscriminate about targets to this point, so...

[Jerloma]

I don't know why Bill Maher continues to have Bill Burr on his podcast. It always goes terribly for him...

[DaveInSeattle]

For those that watched the most recent season of "Fargo" (the one with Juno Temple and Jon Hamm) will remember the scheme where they had multiple candidates for Sheriff with the same name as Hamm's character? Some Right Wing clown here in Washington decided it would be great to pull the same stunt.

2 Democratic candidates named Bob Ferguson withdraw from WA governor's race

Washington Attorney General (AG) Bob Ferguson addressed recent developments in the state's governor's race Monday morning, days after two people named Robert Ferguson joined the ballot.

On Friday, two additional Democratic candidates filed to run for Washington governor under the name Bob Ferguson. Right wing activist Glen Morgan posted on Facebook around 5 p.m. Friday saying he was the "volunteer campaign manager for two of the Bob Fergusons running for governor. They are both superior in every way to the AG running for the same office, and I believe they can provide better choices for the Democrats in our state for that office."

By Monday evening, both Bob Fergusons told KOMO News they were dropping out of the race.

Ferguson, the Democratic frontrunner, said via X that Morgan's motive is to "confuse voters and diminish votes." Ferguson called the additions an "illegal scheme," violating RCW 29a.84.320: "Duplicate, nonexistent, untrue names."

Predictably, when the two Republican plants found out that they were potentially committing a felony, they withdrew.

[Johnnie]

[Johnnie]

I don't know why Bill Maher continues to have Bill Burr on his podcast. It always goes terribly for him...

What have you done in Washington? NOTHIN'.

The entire media landscape summed up in one thought. Bill Burr is the fucking man.

[govmentchedda]

Acquaintance of mine took that photo. Dave Decker aka @watson33569.

[rass]

Anyone who has been mayor of New York in my memory has been a little off, but man, Eric Adams is particularly fucking strange.

[mister d]

Ignoring how fucking weird and dumb he is, or maybe just the weird part, I honestly believe this is the first time he's ever tied labor to immigration and probably thinks its a massive revelation to all.

[Johnnie]

Then there's this asshole:

[Steve of phpBB]

Then there's this asshole:

Was she the one who used the flamethrower to burn books?

[Brontoburglar]

yes; she likely burned more books than she will get percentage points in the primary

[Johnnie]

[Giff]

Fuck Greg Abbott. I want him to die in a way that causes the most suffering.

[Johnnie]

Fuck Greg Abbott. I want him to die in a way that causes the most suffering.

I really want someone to simply knock over his wheelchair.

Then he gets hit by a train.

[Giff]

Fuck Greg Abbott. I want him to die in a way that causes the most suffering.

I really want someone to simply knock over his wheelchair.

Then he gets hit by a train.

Train is too quick.

[duff]

Fuck Greg Abbott. I want him to die in a way that causes the most suffering.

I really want someone to simply knock over his wheelchair.

Then he gets hit by a train.

Train is too quick.

A slow moving one. Where it drags him for 100s of miles into west Texas. And he dies from bleeding out and dehydration.