The Swamp

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:59 pm

brian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:30 pm

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:28 pm Isn't a common right wing stance to be both for free markets and be anti-globalist?

Yeah, that's something I've never been able to square, but the truth is being a right-winger these days requires all kind of intellectual dishonestly and mobius-strip type logic to be "tough on crime" and "OK with molesting 14-year-old girls".

It depends on which right wingers you're talking about. The money-first right wingers say they are for free markets (they aren't) and are globalist, and don't say much about immigration because they favor it (it makes them money).

The white nationalist right wingers are anti-globalist and anti-immigrant (duh), but I don't know how much they talk about free markets, except when using it as a cudgel against liberalism (civil rights laws).

Basically no one is really in favor of free markets, like no one is really in favor of states' rights. It's all about the substantive issue.

Yeah, it's all about self-interest. I'd argue that businesses that depend heavily on export sales or import sourcing are in favor of free markets.

In some quarters "globalist" is a catch word for "Jew", like the Communists used to call Jews "cosmopolitans" before purging them

Yeah, I've kind of checked out this week and didn't see this until today.

Globalist is a very thinly-veiled anti-semitic dog whistle. Exactly what Avram said... used by the Breitbart crowd as a means of talking about The Jews and their secret control of world finance without having to say The Jews.

It's fucking gross that a president would even come close to this dog whistle, but this isn't even a dog whistle at this point. With a certain faction, this is straight up anti-semitism.

Only a thug would think "globalist" is some kind of dog whistle term and not literal.

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:50 pm It's fucking gross that a president would even come close to this dog whistle...

He just used it the other day wrt Cohn.

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:06 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:50 pm It's fucking gross that a president would even come close to this dog whistle...

He just used it the other day wrt Cohn.

No, yeah, I'm caught up now... I figured the context after the fact.

So that payment that Cohen made to Stormy came from his home equity line? Seriously wtf.

Avram wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:45 pm In some quarters "globalist" is a catch word for "Jew", like the Communists used to call Jews "cosmopolitans" before purging them

"Soros" is the word in Europe that has replaced der Sturmer caricatures of rapacious blood-sucking Jews.

Pruitt wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:45 pm

Avram wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:45 pm In some quarters "globalist" is a catch word for "Jew", like the Communists used to call Jews "cosmopolitans" before purging them

"Soros" is the word in Europe that has replaced der Sturmer caricatures of rapacious blood-sucking Jews.

Like globalist, using Soros is a way for both the right and the left to express their anti-Semitism

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:20 pm So that payment that Cohen made to Stormy came from his home equity line? Seriously wtf.

Yeah...I thought, after reading about him at TalkingPointsMemo, that he was a millionaire, several times over. Millionaires need a home equity line? Really?

And how stupid are these guys...he was doing this negotiation using his Trump email address? C'mon....

The degree to which these people would stick their necks out for someone who wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire continues to be hilarious.

Johnny Carwash wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:09 pm The degree to which these people would stick their necks out for someone who wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire continues to be hilarious.

He might have a couple of people to do the pissing though...

Johnny Carwash wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:09 pm The degree to which these people would stick their necks out for someone who wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire continues to be hilarious.

$$$$$$$$

Johnnie wrote: ↑Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:09 am On Beto, the Pod Save America guys had him on before and they have an upcoming Texas tour in 4 cities. Expect him to be a guest again.

Avram wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:08 pm

Pruitt wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:45 pm

Avram wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:45 pm In some quarters "globalist" is a catch word for "Jew", like the Communists used to call Jews "cosmopolitans" before purging them

"Soros" is the word in Europe that has replaced der Sturmer caricatures of rapacious blood-sucking Jews.

Like globalist, using Soros is a way for both the right and the left to express their anti-Semitism

and "populist" is becoming, you know

Pruitt must be glued to his tv.

This Ontario Conservative leadership race is insane. If you recall, this 6 week campaign was triggered by the ex-leader Patrick Brown having to resign due to sexual harassment allegations. He actually entered the race to replace himself for 2 days before backing out.

Now we think Doug Ford (Rob Ford's brother!) but there is a recount and it's being contested because in a ranking vote system, where do the latter rounds votes go? In which riding do they re-distributed to?

I honestly want you guys to start a Canadian Random Politics, because it would be a lot easier to follow and I'm legit interested.

It's unreal that another Ford is in the mix.

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:09 pm I honestly want you guys to start a Canadian Random Politics, because it would be a lot easier to follow and I'm legit interested.

It's unreal that another Ford is in the mix.

Jesus Murphy. Imagine if the dumbest people you knew were running a political party.

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:03 pm

Avram wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:08 pm

Pruitt wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:45 pm

Avram wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:45 pm In some quarters "globalist" is a catch word for "Jew", like the Communists used to call Jews "cosmopolitans" before purging them

"Soros" is the word in Europe that has replaced der Sturmer caricatures of rapacious blood-sucking Jews.

Like globalist, using Soros is a way for both the right and the left to express their anti-Semitism

and "populist" is becoming, you know

Populism (at least in the US) has a long history of nativism and anti-immigrant feeling

Avram wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:17 am

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:03 pm

Avram wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:08 pm

Pruitt wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:45 pm

Avram wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:45 pm In some quarters "globalist" is a catch word for "Jew", like the Communists used to call Jews "cosmopolitans" before purging them

"Soros" is the word in Europe that has replaced der Sturmer caricatures of rapacious blood-sucking Jews.

Like globalist, using Soros is a way for both the right and the left to express their anti-Semitism

and "populist" is becoming, you know

Populism (at least in the US) has a long history of nativism and anti-immigrant feeling

When isn't populism fueled by resentment, which by and large amounts to nothing more than somebody pointing his finger at somebody else for his problems in life? That's true the world over though.

This seems like a pretty solid tweet thread explaining the disconnect between the NYT editorial page and the conservative "movement" as it actually exists in the real world today.

brian wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:16 pm This seems like a pretty solid tweet thread explaining the disconnect between the NYT editorial page and the conservative "movement" as it actually exists in the real world today.

Excellent.

There has always been that belief among liberals (of which I guess I am one) that the other side is basically nice or reasonable. So yeah, my father who is not a racist but who believes that taxes are too high - well, he's what Conservatives should be. As David Roberts points out, guys like that are a minority, surrounded by mouth-breathing, ill-educated snake handlers.

Pruitt wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:38 pm

brian wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:16 pm This seems like a pretty solid tweet thread explaining the disconnect between the NYT editorial page and the conservative "movement" as it actually exists in the real world today.

Excellent.

There has always been that belief among liberals (of which I guess I am one) that the other side is basically nice or reasonable. So yeah, my father who is not a racist but who believes that taxes are too high - well, he's what Conservatives should be. As David Roberts points out, guys like that are a minority, surrounded by mouth-breathing, ill-educated snake handlers.

Yeah. Anti-Trump conservatives are way overrepresented in the media because newspaper publishers and TV producers want to believe that Trump isn't what the GOP is all about. When in fact, he romped through the primary and is exceedingly popular among Republican voters. But I will quibble with your characterization of the GOP base as "mouth-breathing" and "ill-educated." There are plenty of affluent, educated people who embrace the cultural and racial resentments of the party. Steve Bannon is a Harvard Business School grad and multimillionaire. Trump graduated from UPenn. Ted Cruz is a Princeton and Harvard Law grad who clerked for the Supreme Court. Tom Cotton is also a Harvard Law grad.

Wait... you think anti trump conservatives are over represented? What am I missing?

Cause I don’t see a lot of people on tv thinking the way I do.

A_B wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:08 pm Wait... you think anti trump conservatives are over represented? What am I missing?

Cause I don’t see a lot of people on tv thinking the way I do.

Maybe not on TV as much as on newspaper editorial boards. The NY Times, for example, features David Brooks, Bret Stephens and Ross Douthat as columnists but I don’t think they’ve ever run an editorial from a Trump supporter. I don’t read the WashPost as often, but I believe there’s a similar dynamic there.

Joe K wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:41 pm

Pruitt wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:38 pm

brian wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:16 pm This seems like a pretty solid tweet thread explaining the disconnect between the NYT editorial page and the conservative "movement" as it actually exists in the real world today.

Excellent.

There has always been that belief among liberals (of which I guess I am one) that the other side is basically nice or reasonable. So yeah, my father who is not a racist but who believes that taxes are too high - well, he's what Conservatives should be. As David Roberts points out, guys like that are a minority, surrounded by mouth-breathing, ill-educated snake handlers.

Yeah. Anti-Trump conservatives are way overrepresented in the media because newspaper publishers and TV producers want to believe that Trump isn't what the GOP is all about. When in fact, he romped through the primary and is exceedingly popular among Republican voters. But I will quibble with your characterization of the GOP base as "mouth-breathing" and "ill-educated." There are plenty of affluent, educated people who embrace the cultural and racial resentments of the party. Steve Bannon is a Harvard Business School grad and multimillionaire. Trump graduated from UPenn. Ted Cruz is a Princeton and Harvard Law grad who clerked for the Supreme Court. Tom Cotton is also a Harvard Law grad.

So really you take issue with the fact they’re “ill-educated”. Ultimately, that degree means shit unless they somehow figure out right from wrong.

EnochRoot wrote: ↑Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:30 am

Joe K wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:41 pm

Pruitt wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:38 pm

brian wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:16 pm This seems like a pretty solid tweet thread explaining the disconnect between the NYT editorial page and the conservative "movement" as it actually exists in the real world today.

Excellent.

There has always been that belief among liberals (of which I guess I am one) that the other side is basically nice or reasonable. So yeah, my father who is not a racist but who believes that taxes are too high - well, he's what Conservatives should be. As David Roberts points out, guys like that are a minority, surrounded by mouth-breathing, ill-educated snake handlers.

Yeah. Anti-Trump conservatives are way overrepresented in the media because newspaper publishers and TV producers want to believe that Trump isn't what the GOP is all about. When in fact, he romped through the primary and is exceedingly popular among Republican voters. But I will quibble with your characterization of the GOP base as "mouth-breathing" and "ill-educated." There are plenty of affluent, educated people who embrace the cultural and racial resentments of the party. Steve Bannon is a Harvard Business School grad and multimillionaire. Trump graduated from UPenn. Ted Cruz is a Princeton and Harvard Law grad who clerked for the Supreme Court. Tom Cotton is also a Harvard Law grad.

So really you take issue with the fact they’re “ill-educated”. Ultimately, that degree means shit unless they somehow figure out right from wrong.

I agree with your sentiment. I just think the focus on uneducated working class voters obscures and understates the depth of support for far-right movements like Trumpism. Take the infamous 2016 prediction from Chuck Schumer that:

For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.

There have been countless think pieces about the blue-collar voters who support Trump, but hardly any about why more educated and affluent suburban Republicans have continued to support him en masse.

A lot of those so-called educated suburban Republicans believe the propaganda they see on Fox News as much as the mouth-breathers do.

brian wrote: ↑Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:30 am A lot of those so-called educated suburban Republicans believe the propaganda they see on Fox News as much as the mouth-breathers do.

Yup.

I am watching a train wreck of a thread on Facebook, where someone posted a chart showing dozens of media outlets and where they stand on a spectrum of liberal --> conservative on x-axis and fact-based --> propaganda on y-axis. I'm sure you guys have seen it at some point. And while I can certainly quibble with a few of the plot points, really only by a few shades here and there.

But you can tell the people that get their news from Fox (and worse) because they can't stand this chart. They wont admit it, but you can just tell. "All news is biased!" they scree.

Fuck off. I'm so incredibly tired of arguing or even engaging with these self-deluded assholes. It's just exhausting.

My son (college boy) is so annoyed he's pissed at NPR at this point. He can't stand their "bias towards balance" which is the false equivalency shit we've talked about here for years. (What got him going was an NPR report that characterized the bump stock legislation as being "under debate." He's like, there's not reasonable person debating the other side, just stop already. And he's not wrong.)

Yeah, I can't even listen to NPR any more (though not exactly for that same reason). I used to listen religiously especially during long road trips, but I can't any more because every segment on every show seems like it's about Trump and I just can't any more. Even if it's a panel of five people ripping him to shreds (which doesn't happen on NPR anyway, but still) I just can't deal with it all day, every day.

A_B wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:08 pm Wait... you think anti trump conservatives are over represented? What am I missing?

Cause I don’t see a lot of people on tv thinking the way I do.

That's because you're boring and don't sell Coca-Cola.

Anyone who thinks that any media outlet puts anyone on TV for any other reason still has their head in the sand. It's not about news and hasn't been for a long time.

The Jerry Springer-fication of the news is why I hate the media.

Literally every Trump surrogate should be blackballed by every institution worth a fuck. Every time I see Lewandowski, The Mooch, Spicer, Kelly Anne, Parris Denard, Gorka and whoever else on a panel, all I can think is that the media is complicit in all of this.

They should be relegated to Fox News and shit on like the toilets they are. They should be bullied out of existence. They should be villainized as anti-Americans.

And it makes me think...when Trump is eventually out of office this isn't going to magically become better overnight either. The media will just hitch it's wagon to the next train wreck and keep on chugging.

Overall it's the fear of the left. "They will take stuff away" from conservatives and has both fire-breathers and intellects scared.

Heck Ontario is going to elect Trump-lite as their next Premier. Yes, a FORD! This is how both Fords came to power in the first place.

degenerasian wrote: ↑Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:10 pm Overall it's the fear of the left. "They will take stuff away" from conservatives and has both fire-breathers and intellects scared.

Heck Ontario is going to elect Trump-lite as their next Premier. Yes, a FORD! This is how both Fords came to power in the first place.

Well, that remains to be seen.

Only absentee ballots are left apparently.

Update:

NBC has now called it for Lamb. Pretty huge development.

That seems premature.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:08 am That seems premature.

Does it? He's up and the absentees that are out are from the county that favors him.

tennbengal wrote: ↑Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:11 am

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:08 am That seems premature.

Does it? He's up and the absentees that are out are from the county that favors him.

I'll admit I hadn't at all paid attention to *where* the district in question is located in PA. My maternal grandparents were from Elizabeth, and my mom grew up in Mount Oliver. My ancestral homelands!

rass wrote: ↑Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:40 am

tennbengal wrote: ↑Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:11 am

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:08 am That seems premature.

Does it? He's up and the absentees that are out are from the county that favors him.

I'll admit I hadn't at all paid attention to *where* the district in question is located in PA. My maternal grandparents were from Elizabeth, and my mom grew up in Mount Oliver. My ancestral homelands!

It’s a huge win (if it holds up). If it doesn’t, it’s still a repudiation from the GOP’s base.