Car buying

rass · Post by **rass** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:24 am

brian wrote:A buddy just had to have his replaced and all-in including install it was about $350. I'd guess if you just need it re-bracketed to your undercarriage it shouldn't run more than about $75 to $100 or so, but devilfluff would be the expert here.

Thanks man. The guy quoted me $345. And yeah, I was looking for devilfluff.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:28 am

Meant to bump this thread the other day. Dude texted me about a 10% off thing they have going through January regarding vehicles in stock.

So my first thought wasn't "Oooh. Let me see if the price went down and this sweetens the deal." It was "Mother fucker, are you serious? You don't tell me this ahead of time and perhaps give me a heads up...last month?"

The car is still 25k, suddenly has 200 more miles on it, and is still readily available. Used car dealers are scumbags. I'm going to humor myself and lowball him with a 15k offer.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:32 am

The Sybian wrote:What do you need a muffler for?

For when she won't shut the fuck up!

devilfluff · Post by **devilfluff** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:16 am

rass wrote:
brian wrote:A buddy just had to have his replaced and all-in including install it was about $350. I'd guess if you just need it re-bracketed to your undercarriage it shouldn't run more than about $75 to $100 or so, but devilfluff would be the expert here.
Thanks man. The guy quoted me $345. And yeah, I was looking for devilfluff.

$345 is reasonable.

He'll probably be replacing both the muffler and midpipe. The cost is mostly parts, and that quote should be using aftermarkets. American exhausts are still welded together, so they take a little more work than imports.

Post by **Sabo** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:14 am

I have a question for devilfluff, if he's willing to share his professional opinion.

I have a 2002 Honda Civic EX with 134k miles. It's a manual transmission car. A couple of times this winter, my car won't start. More specifically, it won't crank at all. I insert my key and when I turn it forward, and all of the lights show up on the dashboard but it doesn't crank.

In each instance, my car has sat outside in cold weather for at least four days without being turned on. I was in San Antonio last week and came back Saturday afternoon. When I tried to start my car Saturday evening, nothing. I tried about 7-8 times that evening and not a thing happened. On Sunday, I tried a couple more times and still nothing. This morning, I was about to call the tow truck to take it to my local garage, but I decided to try one more time. And of course, it fired right up this morning.

When this happened several weeks ago, I took it to my garage and they looked at it but couldn't find a specific problem since it would start right up for them. One thing they did do was reposition the ignition switch on the clutch, and the car had been fine until this past week.

My question is do you think it's a faulty ignition switch on the clutch, or is the starter going bad? The only consistent thing I can find about this problem is it won't start after sitting in cold weather for more than a handful of days, but I can't think of specific reasons why the cold would cause those two items to not function properly. One other possible clue, although it could be a red herring, is that it took a lot of power to depress the brake before I could get it started. But once it started, the brake worked easy.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:26 am

When my mom's car wouldn't start after a few days/weeks, it was the fault of the battery losing it's charge. The battery was fine but needed to be recharged. After I figured that out I made sure to start it and let it run for a few minutes every few days.

Post by **brian** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:44 am

AB_skin_test wrote:When my mom's car wouldn't start after a few days/weeks, it was the fault of the battery losing it's charge. The battery was fine but needed to be recharged. After I figured that out I made sure to start it and let it run for a few minutes every few days.

I've seen what you describe before, but it seems it would be asymptomatic in that case for the car to just all of the sudden start after not starting. That kind of randomness would lead me as a complete non-expert in cars to think it is something with the starter also.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:00 pm

When that happened to my car, it was the ignition switch. Or ignition sensor or whatever they called it.

devilfluff · Post by **devilfluff** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:53 pm

As strange as it sounds, my first suspect would be the battery.

A battery loses power as temperatures rise or lower from a normal range(50-75ish). So if the ambient temp had risen when it finally started, that could explain the later start. People are often thrown when lights or a battery operate but a car won't start. The power required to start the vehicle is significantly higher than the draw of the accessories.

You can get a electrical/charging system test done at most shops for cheap(like less than $50), and it will test the battery, alternator, and starter.

The clutch depression switch is probably just an extension of the neutral safety switch. It basically lets the car know the vehicle is ok to start. If it is failing, it could be the cause. Does your vehicle start in neutral without the clutch depressed normally?

Post by **Sabo** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:31 pm

devilfluff wrote:As strange as it sounds, my first suspect would be the battery.

A battery loses power as temperatures rise or lower from a normal range(50-75ish). So if the ambient temp had risen when it finally started, that could explain the later start. People are often thrown when lights or a battery operate but a car won't start. The power required to start the vehicle is significantly higher than the draw of the accessories.

You can get a electrical/charging system test done at most shops for cheap(like less than $50), and it will test the battery, alternator, and starter.

I thought about jump starting my car on Saturday night when it was around 20 just to see if that would help, but I gave up when I discovered the jumper cables were about three feet too short. When I tried starting it on Sunday, it was probably about 30 degrees. And when it finally did start this morning, I think it was maybe 25 degrees. I've been able to start it in much colder temperatures before, but not after having it sit unused for several days.

I can't remember when I've replaced the battery. I might just go ahead and try that step first.

devilfluff wrote:The clutch depression switch is probably just an extension of the neutral safety switch. It basically lets the car know the vehicle is ok to start. If it is failing, it could be the cause. Does your vehicle start in neutral without the clutch depressed normally?

I'm not sure I've ever tried starting it in neutral without the clutch down. I've always started it in neutral with the clutch depressed. I'll try it in a bit to see if that happens.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:32 pm

devilfluff wrote:As strange as it sounds, my first suspect would be the battery.

A battery loses power as temperatures rise or lower from a normal range(50-75ish). So if the ambient temp had risen when it finally started, that could explain the later start. People are often thrown when lights or a battery operate but a car won't start. The power required to start the vehicle is significantly higher than the draw of the accessories.

You can get a electrical/charging system test done at most shops for cheap(like less than $50), and it will test the battery, alternator, and starter.

The clutch depression switch is probably just an extension of the neutral safety switch. It basically lets the car know the vehicle is ok to start. If it is failing, it could be the cause. Does your vehicle start in neutral without the clutch depressed normally?

I think Autozone will do it for free - at least the battery, that is.

devilfluff · Post by **devilfluff** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:19 pm

Gunpowder wrote:
devilfluff wrote:As strange as it sounds, my first suspect would be the battery.

A battery loses power as temperatures rise or lower from a normal range(50-75ish). So if the ambient temp had risen when it finally started, that could explain the later start. People are often thrown when lights or a battery operate but a car won't start. The power required to start the vehicle is significantly higher than the draw of the accessories.

You can get a electrical/charging system test done at most shops for cheap(like less than $50), and it will test the battery, alternator, and starter.

The clutch depression switch is probably just an extension of the neutral safety switch. It basically lets the car know the vehicle is ok to start. If it is failing, it could be the cause. Does your vehicle start in neutral without the clutch depressed normally?

I think Autozone will do it for free - at least the battery, that is.

Yeah, most chain part stores will test a battery for free. That is a good option, too.

Post by **Sabo** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:21 am

Here's the latest:

- The car starts fine and dandy now, but I used it several times in the last couple of days.

- I confirmed it will not start if in neutral and the clutch is not depressed. It doesn't attempt to turn over.

- I took it to an AutoZone yesterday to have the battery and such tested, but they said their testing equipment was down at the time. Since it's been running OK I'm going to let it go for now. But I'll check the battery first if it happens again.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions.

Post by **brian** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:35 am

Sabo wrote:Here's the latest:

- The car starts fine and dandy now, but I used it several times in the last couple of days.

- I confirmed it will not start if in neutral and the clutch is not depressed. It doesn't attempt to turn over.

- I took it to an AutoZone yesterday to have the battery and such tested, but they said their testing equipment was down at the time. Since it's been running OK I'm going to let it go for now. But I'll check the battery first if it happens again.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions.

Depending on how old the battery is and how long you're planning on keeping the car, might not be the worst idea in the world to just buy a new battery and have it around ready to install one day when it's a little warmer outside and you have some time. It's a pretty easy job in most cars and if you think the battery is ready to replaced anyway, it'll save you some potential hassle at an inopportune time. I had to replace the wife's battery one time in the middle of a parking lot when it was 110 degrees out and I wish I had taken the above advice from myself.

Post by **Sabo** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:34 am

brian wrote:
Sabo wrote:Here's the latest:

- The car starts fine and dandy now, but I used it several times in the last couple of days.

- I confirmed it will not start if in neutral and the clutch is not depressed. It doesn't attempt to turn over.

- I took it to an AutoZone yesterday to have the battery and such tested, but they said their testing equipment was down at the time. Since it's been running OK I'm going to let it go for now. But I'll check the battery first if it happens again.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions.
Depending on how old the battery is and how long you're planning on keeping the car, might not be the worst idea in the world to just buy a new battery and have it around ready to install one day when it's a little warmer outside and you have some time. It's a pretty easy job in most cars and if you think the battery is ready to replaced anyway, it'll save you some potential hassle at an inopportune time. I had to replace the wife's battery one time in the middle of a parking lot when it was 110 degrees out and I wish I had taken the above advice from myself.

I plan on driving this car into the ground. A new battery isn't a huge investment for this car, so I'll try that first and see what happens.

Replacing car batteries is easy, but having AutoZone do it for me and recycle my old battery is easier.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:14 pm

brian wrote:
Depending on how old the battery is and how long you're planning on keeping the car, might not be the worst idea in the world to just buy a new battery and have it around ready to install one day when it's a little warmer outside and you have some time. It's a pretty easy job in most cars and if you think the battery is ready to replaced anyway, it'll save you some potential hassle at an inopportune time. I had to replace the wife's battery one time in the middle of a parking lot when it was 110 degrees out and I wish I had taken the above advice from myself.

This is what I would do. I had the same problem once. In cold weather, the battery wasn't juiced enough to turn the car over. I'd have to get a jump every time I started the car in cold weather. Warmer days it was fine. As I was in college and too cheap to buy a battery, I lived like this for a month or so until the Buffalo winters forced me to buy a new battery as I got sick of standing out in the cold waiting for someone to let me use their car for a jump.

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:34 pm

I had the same problem, syb. Winters in Santa Barbara.

Oh, wait. I had no trouble of the kind. Just sunburn.

Post by **brian** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:00 pm

howard wrote:I had the same problem, syb. Winters in Santa Barbara.

Oh, wait. I had no trouble of the kind. Just sunburn.

The heat out here will kill a battery just as easily as the cold does.

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:43 pm

Not with the gentle breezes on the seashore. Rarely got above the low 80s in SB. I oughta have my head examined for ever leaving.

A few years back I was seriously considering moving to Vegas. Then I visited in July. Fuggetiboutit.

Post by **brian** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:45 pm

howard wrote:Not with the gentle breezes on the seashore. Rarely got above the low 80s in SB. I oughta have my head examined for ever leaving.

A few years back I was seriously considering moving to Vegas. Then I visited in July. Fuggetiboutit.

Well, by "out here" I meant Las Vegas. Just making the observation because a lot of people don't know that heat is as bad as cold for batteries.

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:52 pm

I'm just missing the West today, what with nine inches on the ground. And I got stuck on a hill driving home.

rass · Post by **rass** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:13 pm

howard wrote:And I got stuck on a hill driving home.

Me too, almost. I was struggling, steering wheel turned all the way to the right, still drifting left, momentum fading. WFAN hit a commercial, and I hit out at the nearest preset. This is what I got:

Very slowly, I gained control of my 2003 Saturn, became one with my silver steed, and made it up the hill. As we triumphantly crested the peak, the saxophone faded and this kicked in:

Needless to say, the next hill, even bigger than the last, so much so that some may call it a mountain, didn't stand a chance.

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:23 pm

No doubt the vibrations from the saxophone riff melted the ice beneath your tires.

rass · Post by **rass** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:33 pm

No. Doubt.

phxgators · Post by **phxgators** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:01 pm

brian wrote:
howard wrote:Not with the gentle breezes on the seashore. Rarely got above the low 80s in SB. I oughta have my head examined for ever leaving.

A few years back I was seriously considering moving to Vegas. Then I visited in July. Fuggetiboutit.
Well, by "out here" I meant Las Vegas. Just making the observation because a lot of people don't know that heat is as bad as cold for batteries.

In the nearly 13 years we've lived in the Phoenix area, my wife and I have had 1 battery make it past 3 years old (about 3 years and 2 months). But, we always get batteries with 3 year warranties, so every other one is free.

Post by **Sabo** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:29 am

Sabo wrote:Here's the latest:

- The car starts fine and dandy now, but I used it several times in the last couple of days.

- I confirmed it will not start if in neutral and the clutch is not depressed. It doesn't attempt to turn over.

- I took it to an AutoZone yesterday to have the battery and such tested, but they said their testing equipment was down at the time. Since it's been running OK I'm going to let it go for now. But I'll check the battery first if it happens again.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions.

Well, so much for the battery being the culprit. I bought a new battery at AutoZone and installed it Sunday afternoon, and it started without any problems on Sunday. Yesterday, it started fine around 8 a.m. and then around 3 p.m. When I left my house around 5:30 p.m., the car wouldn't start again. Same problem as before ... when I turn the key it provides power, but it doesn't crank.

So, is it safe to assume the problem is either a faulty neutral safety switch or a bad starter? Or is there some other potential cause I'm overlooking?

devilfluff · Post by **devilfluff** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:46 pm

Sabo wrote:
Sabo wrote:Here's the latest:

- The car starts fine and dandy now, but I used it several times in the last couple of days.

- I confirmed it will not start if in neutral and the clutch is not depressed. It doesn't attempt to turn over.

- I took it to an AutoZone yesterday to have the battery and such tested, but they said their testing equipment was down at the time. Since it's been running OK I'm going to let it go for now. But I'll check the battery first if it happens again.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions.
Well, so much for the battery being the culprit. I bought a new battery at AutoZone and installed it Sunday afternoon, and it started without any problems on Sunday. Yesterday, it started fine around 8 a.m. and then around 3 p.m. When I left my house around 5:30 p.m., the car wouldn't start again. Same problem as before ... when I turn the key it provides power, but it doesn't crank.

So, is it safe to assume the problem is either a faulty neutral safety switch or a bad starter? Or is there some other potential cause I'm overlooking?

Those are both likely culprits, another possibility is the ignition switch...

Post by **Sabo** » Sun May 18, 2014 7:04 pm

Sabo wrote:I plan on driving this car into the ground.

Well, that was the plan at one point. But I'm starting to have serious doubts about the longevity of my current car. I had a new starter installed to fix the problem I wrote about earlier in the thread, but now the check engine light has been on for the last few months (my mechanic says the error codes report an issue with the evaporative system, but it doesn't highlight the exact cause) and I'm starting to notice strong vibrations in the steering wheel if I go faster than 70 mph.

I'm starting to think I'm better served buying a new car sooner than later to maximize the value of trading in my Civic. It has 140k miles now, and Kelley Blue Book says I can get about $2,500 in trade value for this area. The longer I wait, the less I'm going to get, and the greater my exposure to a more expensive repair. And since I currently don't have a mortgage payment (one of the benefits of living with my mother-in-law to take care of her), I figure it's better for me to have a car payment now than later when we buy the house from her.

So, I'm in the market for a car. I'm leaning toward a small SUV for multiple reasons. First, both of our cars are two-door Civics, and that's been a problem whenever we need to take the mother-in-law somewhere. And while Civics are great for mileage and such, they suck if you need to haul something larger than two suitcases. I'm basically looking for good, functional transportation that has greater carrying capacity than I currently have but still gets decent-to-good mileage.

Does anyone have suggestions? I've been reading good things about the Subaru Forester, and a good friend of mine has had one seemingly forever and he still loves it. He's put a ton of miles on it as well, so that bodes well. My wife and I have had good luck with the Hondas we've owned, so I'm considering the Honda CR-V, too. If anyone has any experiences with these or similar models, I'd appreciate hearing any anecdotes. I've already ruled out all German cars, as I don't have tens of thousands of dollars to spend on 93 octane gas and semi-monthly repair bills.

Thanks in advance.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Sun May 18, 2014 11:32 pm

I have a 2004 Forester with 140K+ on it that I love. Reasonable gas mileage for the size/4WD, and aside from the standard maintenance the only things I've had to do was replace part of the exhaust due to rust and get a valve fixed, this was do to a design defect that isn't present in the current models.

My parents have had Subarus since the 80s and aside from the first that had a really badly designed turbo they've been pleased with all of them.

devilfluff · Post by **devilfluff** » Mon May 19, 2014 6:25 am

I am a fan of Subaru's. I loved my WRX. For almost the same money, test drive the Outback, too.

In the class you are looking at, take a peek at the Mazda CX5(known for a little more sporty driving experience), Toyota RAV4(it's a benchmark, at least), and Hyundai Sante Fe(what a warranty).

Depending on how stuck you are on a mini-ute, you may find some of the 5-door hatches as useful. Don't rule them out without at least a look. My wife is very happy with her Mazda 3.

Post by **Sabo** » Mon May 19, 2014 1:04 pm

Thanks, guys. I appreciate the advice. Going to talk to Mrs. Sabo about this some more this week and we'll decide what to do. I will say I've noticed quite a few older Subarus on the road and in parking lots. I can't say I see a lot of older Chevys, Pontiacs and such unless they are classic cars.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Mon May 19, 2014 1:18 pm

Pontiac builds excitement, and old beaters aren't exciting, dammit.

phxgators · Post by **phxgators** » Mon May 19, 2014 2:57 pm

My wife drives a Mazda CX-9, it's been a really good car. There are smaller options if that's more what you're looking for.

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Mon May 19, 2014 3:32 pm

Need to do the same thing but the price of new cars seem outrageous. Wife's been looking at a Kia Sorrento but base is $28k and $40k + for fully loaded. No way am I going to pay $40k for a car. Maybe im just living in the past but $15-20k still seems like the right cost for a car. Of course, I drive a old buick so maybe my standards aren't that high. Just give me something that stays running and wont kill me at the pump.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Mon May 19, 2014 4:05 pm

My last two purchases were lease returns. Each was still within the model year, with just over 12k and 6k miles respectively. I probably saved 20% off of the cost of a new car.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Mon May 19, 2014 6:30 pm

I drive a company-issue Ford Fusion hybrid, and it is a really great car.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Mon May 19, 2014 6:39 pm

sancarlos wrote:I drive a company-issue Ford Fusion hybrid, and it is a really great car.

Johnnie wants to know what kind of business you're in again.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Tue May 20, 2014 12:05 am

He's in construction.

/Goodfellas'd

Post by **Sabo** » Sun May 25, 2014 4:14 pm

Bought a 2014 Honda CR-V today. Went with the EX trim line, which had most of the features we wanted. We test drove the CR-V and the Forester but preferred the CR-V because it had a smoother ride. We also preferred the controls on the CR-V. Also, the Honda sales guy was actually very reasonable and informative, unlike the Subaru guy who might've been stoned when we went for the test drive.

All in all, today was a good day.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Sun May 25, 2014 8:00 pm

I am SHOCKED that someone selling a Subaru was stoned.