The Swamp

Posted: **Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:49 am**

Like I had mentioned in the random thoughts thread, I want to buy a new car. Preferably a MINI and preferably one that's a Clubman S.

Well, over here in Germany they cater to new car sales for military. In fact, car dealerships like Pentagon Auto Sales and Bavarian Motors specifically exist for those of us with ID cards. They aren't allowed to sell to civilians. We get the cars with discounts and don't pay any taxes.

I went in yesterday to chat with a dude I previously chatted with about buying a "new" car -- "new" extends to 2012 models that were either demo cars or loaner cars. They were never owned by anyone, but have miles on them and are sold at further discounted rates specifically for us military peeps.

I have sort of settled on a 2012 Clubman (not the "S") with 7,600 miles. It has a few packages with it (cold weather, premium, technology). The list price that probably won't budge is $24,995. The original MSRP from when it was first built said $28,000. But the thing here with me is that if I priced out what the car comes with and put it on a 2014 model using the MINI website, it's easily in the $28-$29,000 range. I never asked what sort of discount I'd receive if I went with a 2014 model, but I'd venture to say that it would be tax free, no destination fee, and that's it.

So what I am trying to assess is whether that $24,995 is a fair deal in the end. I feel like the car should be a couple grand cheaper, but if one were to get what I'm getting, NADA Guides prices it out as so: " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What say ye, Swamp? As a math guy, I cared more about my APR on the loan than the sticker price, honestly. USAA is giving me 1.39%. It could have gotten down to as little as .49%, but they don't partner with overseas dealerships. (At least I don't think they do. I will have to check on that.)

Posted: **Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:40 pm**

It sounds to me like a shitty deal. A 2012 model car with 7600 miles is NOT new, regardless of previous ownership legalities. That's a used car.

You can price it via Edmunds here - http://www.edmunds.com/mini/cooper-club ... sults.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't know what options you have, so I didn't choose any when I tried. The dealer price on that car here (I don't know how the region affects things in this case) came out to $18,690. I'm sure if you add some options, it would go up, but it shouldn't be nearly as high as what you were quoted.

You can try it yourself here - http://www.edmunds.com/mini/cooper-club ... sults.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You probably shouldn't trust the NADA "value" - that's a number set up to make dealers look good.

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:57 am**

Shirley, you can be serious.

Perfect. Thanks, man. It felt like too high of a price. What I did find out was that down the street from where I looked was another MINI for sale. A 2011 Cooper Clubman S with 20,000 miles on it. I was told that would be put out for 21,500 by Tuesday or so. I'm going to hold of on the one I quoted above and see what the deal is with this other one. According to Edmunds, dealer retail puts the 2011 between 24-25 thousand for its worth.

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:30 am**

Shirley wrote:It sounds to me like a shitty deal. A 2012 model car with 7600 miles is NOT new, regardless of previous ownership legalities. That's a used car.
I don't know what options you have, so I didn't choose any when I tried. The dealer price on that car here (I don't know how the region affects things in this case) came out to $18,690. I'm sure if you add some options, it would go up, but it shouldn't be nearly as high as what you were quoted.

Using a guesstimate of the contents of the listed packages, & an automatic trans, I'm getting a dealer retail of about $25k dropping down to about $21k for "trade in value". Obviously a manual will drop those a tick.

The demo qualifies for any dealer rebates and/or financing, just like a 0 mile new car.

They really still have a 2012? that's 2 model years old now. They should be desperate to get rid of it.

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:47 am**

If you ever want to get laid again, I'd advise you buy a different car.

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:41 am**

Hippie chicks love that shit.

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:43 am**

He's in Europe. Hatches are the thing to have.

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:57 pm**

The Sybian wrote:If you ever want to get laid again, I'd advise you buy a different car.

Yeah, I don't understand the infatuation with this mobile tampon.

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:58 pm**

Like clockwork the dealer calls me back today to tell me that their credit department was "a little bit higher" than USAA with their offered APR. They were offering over 7%! My credit score is damn near 800. I'm guessing because I've been the responsible person and not gotten into a wash cycle of revolving debt that I'm a high risk or something? Man I hate the "department" that determines that determines these things. Fuck them.

And I also hate the dealer too. Despite telling me numerous times that he's been doing this for 20+ years, he still got butthurt that I declined in the end when I told him -- with the info from friends both here and at work -- that $25 grand was teetering a bit too high. I get the song and dance that he's hid nothing from me, that NADA Guides is the sole source to use, that my friends are uninformed..etc. Like...wtf? If there's a website that contradicts the inflated value one puts over the other, you're damn right I'm siding with the lower scale. I mean why can they look at any prospective used vehicle and underestimate its price so low during a trade in? Based on the sole purpose that they have to make money? Value is value. Math don't lie.

Instead, he should recognize and acknowledge that his industry intentionally misleads people into entrapping themselves into loans that are clearly unfair. But of course not. This is why I steered clear of anything dealership related for so long. And honestly, I'll probably never go that route again. I was high on checking in on that other used MINI tomorrow, but I just lost my want to do so.

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:59 pm**

7% on a car loan is pretty standard.

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:03 pm**

Gunpowder wrote:
The Sybian wrote:If you ever want to get laid again, I'd advise you buy a different car.
Yeah, I don't understand the infatuation with this mobile tampon.

I already own a lifted Jeep that's basically a gas guzzler to deal with harsh winters. It's either the MINI or a VW Diesel for better gas mileage and means to travel around Germany. Right now my 5 series BMW has been a nightmare of a car.

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:04 pm**

Johnnie wrote:
Gunpowder wrote:
The Sybian wrote:If you ever want to get laid again, I'd advise you buy a different car.
Yeah, I don't understand the infatuation with this mobile tampon.
I already own a lifted Jeep that's basically a gas guzzler to deal with harsh winters. It's either the MINI or a VW Diesel for better gas mileage and means to travel around Germany. Right now my 5 series BMW has been a nightmare of a car.

Fuck it, get a SmartCar! I just find it funny going from a lifted Jeep to a Mini.

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:22 pm**

Gunpowder wrote:7% on a car loan is pretty standard.

Not in my experience recently. I got a 1.75% rate earlier this year.

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:26 pm**

7% does seem very high to me.

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:27 pm**

Johnnie wrote:Instead, he should recognize and acknowledge that his industry intentionally misleads people…

Upton Sinclair wrote:It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:35 pm**

govmentchedda wrote:
Gunpowder wrote:7% on a car loan is pretty standard.
Not in my experience recently. I got a 1.75% rate earlier this year.

Yeah, I got 2.75 percent on a 60-month loan (from USAA) about 18 months ago. But I'd bet the interest rates are usually higher on used cars

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:39 pm**

Gunpowder wrote:7% on a car loan is pretty standard.

Current USAA rates right now for new car loans:
(Even the most you'll deal with for a used car loan is 2.75%)

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:15 pm**

Last 2 cars I bought = 0%.

Always do your homework. If you are buying new, you can have the invoice price in hand walking in. You will have the manufacturer's bank's published promotional rate(if applicable) and any manufacturer's incentives. A decent smart phone can access a payment calculator, and anybody with some math skills will know if they are hiding charges.

Most dealers are aware of this, and there is more clarity in the buying experience than ever before.

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:36 pm**

brian wrote:
govmentchedda wrote:
Gunpowder wrote:7% on a car loan is pretty standard.
Not in my experience recently. I got a 1.75% rate earlier this year.
Yeah, I got 2.75 percent on a 60-month loan (from USAA) about 18 months ago. But I'd bet the interest rates are usually higher on used cars

That must be it.

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:58 pm**

FWIW, my 1.75% rate was on a slightly used (less than 1 yr old car). I think the rate was applicable for "new" cars, with "new" = less than 2 years old, in the eyes of my credit union.

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:01 pm**

Just for shits and giggles, I looked up Mini's special offers.

Financing from 0-1.9%(.9 for the standard 60 month term).

$1000 discount for USAA members.

A nicely loaded 2014 Clubman is about $27k sticker.

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:14 pm**

You all are forgetting GPJ's straight cash homey lifestyle destroying his credit rating.

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:30 pm**

devilfluff wrote:Just for shits and giggles, I looked up Mini's special offers.

Financing from 0-1.9%(.9 for the standard 60 month term).

$1000 discount for USAA members.

A nicely loaded 2014 Clubman is about $27k sticker.

Does that apply to me in Germany? Could it? That sounds pretty awesome regardless.

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:33 pm**

AB_skin_test wrote:You all are forgetting GPJ's straight cash homey lifestyle destroying his credit rating.

It was in the high 700s. Student loans always helped me out.

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:58 pm**

The Sybian wrote:If you ever want to get laid again, I'd advise you buy a different car.

howard wrote:Hippie chicks love that shit.

We can flesh out Syb's original comment with the merest of additions: "If you ever want to get laid again by a female that bathes . . . "

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:46 pm**

This ain't Vancouver. Hippie chicks down here bathe, now that we are in the 21st century.

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:59 pm**

Thus the NYC version are not unlike limousine liberals. Or champagne socialists. Or even lipstick lezzies. We need a proper pejorative name for that ilk. A true hippie chick abhors cars (all motor vehicles do is clog those enormous bike lanes! And drown polar bears), refuses to shave anything from her armpits on down, frees the puppies, disavows make-up and socks and bras, groupthinks, grows dreads, collects beads; the Fine Arts degree useful only in the creation of the nicer than ordinary protest signs, the ones with proper kerning and grammar, occasional wit in the wordplay. What to call that type of wayward watermelon? The "Bugatti Beatnik". Or perhaps the "Maserati Moonbat". From the "Peugeot Progressive" right on down to the "Volkswagen Vegan".

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:07 pm**

Scottie wrote:We need a proper pejorative name for that ilk.

True. 'Hippie' is easy, lasy and inaccurate. Then again, so am I.

Posted: **Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:01 pm**

Scottie wrote:Thus the NYC version are not unlike limousine liberals. Or champagne socialists. Or even lipstick lezzies. We need a proper pejorative name for that ilk. A true hippie chick abhors cars (all motor vehicles do is clog those enormous bike lanes! And drown polar bears), refuses to shave anything from her armpits on down, frees the puppies, disavows make-up and socks and bras, groupthinks, grows dreads, collects beads; the Fine Arts degree useful only in the creation of the nicer than ordinary protest signs, the ones with proper kerning and grammar, occasional wit in the wordplay. What to call that type of wayward watermelon? The "Bugatti Beatnik". Or perhaps the "Maserati Moonbat". From the "Peugeot Progressive" right on down to the "Volkswagen Vegan".

I think Vancouver, San Fran and probably Portland have a brand of lefties we just don't see on the East Coast.

Posted: **Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:32 am**

Johnnie wrote:
devilfluff wrote:Just for shits and giggles, I looked up Mini's special offers.

Financing from 0-1.9%(.9 for the standard 60 month term).

$1000 discount for USAA members.

A nicely loaded 2014 Clubman is about $27k sticker.
Does that apply to me in Germany? Could it? That sounds pretty awesome regardless.

That is harder to answer. I don't know how the laws work for foreign transactions. It is certainly possible, though.

The car you were working with, was it priced in US$ or Euros(with a conversion for us)?
Is it a US spec'd car or EDM?
Did they mention any manufacturers programs?
Sprechen sie Deutsch? If so, check the Mini website for Germany(usually special offers are under a shopping tools header)

Posted: **Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:00 am**

New study suggests bras aren't necessarily good. Maybe the hippies are on to something.

Posted: **Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:08 am**

And now the POS BMW is randomly dying for no reason. I went to check the mail at my APO today and came back to it being completely dead when I cranked it. It was then able to crank afterwards when I opened and closed the hood. Like, wtf? That makes no sense.

$3,800 when I bought it. And a maybe $1,800 to fix sealing problems, overheating problems, and battery problems. Now I'm about to donate this thing for parts. So, so happy I'm made of money. :/

Combined with work, this whole "live in Germany" thing isn't turning it so awesomely. 18 months and I'm out of here. This is maddening.

Posted: **Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:15 am**

Well, you've learned never to buy a $3,800 BMW. They aren't as bad as Jags but many of them end up with serious problems. Many of them electronic, in which case you're just fucked.

Posted: **Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:16 am**

Hell, that tiptronic transmission is like $5K+ in itself.

Posted: **Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:11 am**

That is an E39, right? I need a front passenger side interior door panel and door latch. Thanks in advance.

Posted: **Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:15 pm**

A buddy of mine is going to help me fix the electrical issue then off to the lemon lot it goes. Hopefully I can salvage something from it, but I'm not holding my breath.

Posted: **Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:44 pm**

If we have a car repair thread I can't find one, so will have to do.

My muffler fell most of the way off on the way home from work this evening. It looks like the brackets just completely rusted out and fell apart. The section on the exhaust leading to the muffler is no longer connected to the muffler. I can't really tell if the muffler itself is sound (ha!) or not. The car is a 10+ year old Saturn Vue that I need to run into the ground for at least another year. Anyone have a feel on a reasonable charge reattach and possibly replace a muffler?

Posted: **Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:00 pm**

A buddy just had to have his replaced and all-in including install it was about $350. I'd guess if you just need it re-bracketed to your undercarriage it shouldn't run more than about $75 to $100 or so, but devilfluff would be the expert here.

Posted: **Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:19 pm**

Mini's are a sweet ride. But you probably knew I'd say that. (I'd probably get one if it was more practical for winter driving.)

Posted: **Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:04 pm**

What do you need a muffler for?

The Swamp

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