Car buying
Moderators: Shirley, Sabo, brian, rass, DaveInSeattle
Car buying
Like I had mentioned in the random thoughts thread, I want to buy a new car. Preferably a MINI and preferably one that's a Clubman S.
Well, over here in Germany they cater to new car sales for military. In fact, car dealerships like Pentagon Auto Sales and Bavarian Motors specifically exist for those of us with ID cards. They aren't allowed to sell to civilians. We get the cars with discounts and don't pay any taxes.
I went in yesterday to chat with a dude I previously chatted with about buying a "new" car -- "new" extends to 2012 models that were either demo cars or loaner cars. They were never owned by anyone, but have miles on them and are sold at further discounted rates specifically for us military peeps.
I have sort of settled on a 2012 Clubman (not the "S") with 7,600 miles. It has a few packages with it (cold weather, premium, technology). The list price that probably won't budge is $24,995. The original MSRP from when it was first built said $28,000. But the thing here with me is that if I priced out what the car comes with and put it on a 2014 model using the MINI website, it's easily in the $28-$29,000 range. I never asked what sort of discount I'd receive if I went with a 2014 model, but I'd venture to say that it would be tax free, no destination fee, and that's it.
So what I am trying to assess is whether that $24,995 is a fair deal in the end. I feel like the car should be a couple grand cheaper, but if one were to get what I'm getting, NADA Guides prices it out as so: " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What say ye, Swamp? As a math guy, I cared more about my APR on the loan than the sticker price, honestly. USAA is giving me 1.39%. It could have gotten down to as little as .49%, but they don't partner with overseas dealerships. (At least I don't think they do. I will have to check on that.)
Well, over here in Germany they cater to new car sales for military. In fact, car dealerships like Pentagon Auto Sales and Bavarian Motors specifically exist for those of us with ID cards. They aren't allowed to sell to civilians. We get the cars with discounts and don't pay any taxes.
I went in yesterday to chat with a dude I previously chatted with about buying a "new" car -- "new" extends to 2012 models that were either demo cars or loaner cars. They were never owned by anyone, but have miles on them and are sold at further discounted rates specifically for us military peeps.
I have sort of settled on a 2012 Clubman (not the "S") with 7,600 miles. It has a few packages with it (cold weather, premium, technology). The list price that probably won't budge is $24,995. The original MSRP from when it was first built said $28,000. But the thing here with me is that if I priced out what the car comes with and put it on a 2014 model using the MINI website, it's easily in the $28-$29,000 range. I never asked what sort of discount I'd receive if I went with a 2014 model, but I'd venture to say that it would be tax free, no destination fee, and that's it.
So what I am trying to assess is whether that $24,995 is a fair deal in the end. I feel like the car should be a couple grand cheaper, but if one were to get what I'm getting, NADA Guides prices it out as so: " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What say ye, Swamp? As a math guy, I cared more about my APR on the loan than the sticker price, honestly. USAA is giving me 1.39%. It could have gotten down to as little as .49%, but they don't partner with overseas dealerships. (At least I don't think they do. I will have to check on that.)
mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.
Re: Car buying
It sounds to me like a shitty deal. A 2012 model car with 7600 miles is NOT new, regardless of previous ownership legalities. That's a used car.
You can price it via Edmunds here - http://www.edmunds.com/mini/cooper-club ... sults.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I don't know what options you have, so I didn't choose any when I tried. The dealer price on that car here (I don't know how the region affects things in this case) came out to $18,690. I'm sure if you add some options, it would go up, but it shouldn't be nearly as high as what you were quoted.
You can try it yourself here - http://www.edmunds.com/mini/cooper-club ... sults.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You probably shouldn't trust the NADA "value" - that's a number set up to make dealers look good.
You can price it via Edmunds here - http://www.edmunds.com/mini/cooper-club ... sults.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I don't know what options you have, so I didn't choose any when I tried. The dealer price on that car here (I don't know how the region affects things in this case) came out to $18,690. I'm sure if you add some options, it would go up, but it shouldn't be nearly as high as what you were quoted.
You can try it yourself here - http://www.edmunds.com/mini/cooper-club ... sults.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You probably shouldn't trust the NADA "value" - that's a number set up to make dealers look good.
Totally Kafkaesque
Re: Car buying
Shirley, you can be serious.
Perfect. Thanks, man. It felt like too high of a price. What I did find out was that down the street from where I looked was another MINI for sale. A 2011 Cooper Clubman S with 20,000 miles on it. I was told that would be put out for 21,500 by Tuesday or so. I'm going to hold of on the one I quoted above and see what the deal is with this other one. According to Edmunds, dealer retail puts the 2011 between 24-25 thousand for its worth.
Perfect. Thanks, man. It felt like too high of a price. What I did find out was that down the street from where I looked was another MINI for sale. A 2011 Cooper Clubman S with 20,000 miles on it. I was told that would be put out for 21,500 by Tuesday or so. I'm going to hold of on the one I quoted above and see what the deal is with this other one. According to Edmunds, dealer retail puts the 2011 between 24-25 thousand for its worth.
mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.
-
- Brandt
- Posts: 471
- Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:41 pm
Re: Car buying
Shirley wrote:It sounds to me like a shitty deal. A 2012 model car with 7600 miles is NOT new, regardless of previous ownership legalities. That's a used car.
I don't know what options you have, so I didn't choose any when I tried. The dealer price on that car here (I don't know how the region affects things in this case) came out to $18,690. I'm sure if you add some options, it would go up, but it shouldn't be nearly as high as what you were quoted.
Using a guesstimate of the contents of the listed packages, & an automatic trans, I'm getting a dealer retail of about $25k dropping down to about $21k for "trade in value". Obviously a manual will drop those a tick.
The demo qualifies for any dealer rebates and/or financing, just like a 0 mile new car.
They really still have a 2012? that's 2 model years old now. They should be desperate to get rid of it.
- The Sybian
- The Dude
- Posts: 19013
- Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:36 am
- Location: Working in the Crap Part of Jersey
Re: Car buying
If you ever want to get laid again, I'd advise you buy a different car.
An honest to God cult of personality - formed around a failed steak salesman.
-Pruitt
-Pruitt
Re: Car buying
Hippie chicks love that shit.
Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.
Those days are gone forever
Over a long time ago
Oh yeah…
Those days are gone forever
Over a long time ago
Oh yeah…
-
- Brandt
- Posts: 471
- Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:41 pm
Re: Car buying
He's in Europe. Hatches are the thing to have.
Re: Car buying
The Sybian wrote:If you ever want to get laid again, I'd advise you buy a different car.
Yeah, I don't understand the infatuation with this mobile tampon.
Pack a vest for your james in the city of intercourse
Re: Car buying
Like clockwork the dealer calls me back today to tell me that their credit department was "a little bit higher" than USAA with their offered APR. They were offering over 7%! My credit score is damn near 800. I'm guessing because I've been the responsible person and not gotten into a wash cycle of revolving debt that I'm a high risk or something? Man I hate the "department" that determines that determines these things. Fuck them.
And I also hate the dealer too. Despite telling me numerous times that he's been doing this for 20+ years, he still got butthurt that I declined in the end when I told him -- with the info from friends both here and at work -- that $25 grand was teetering a bit too high. I get the song and dance that he's hid nothing from me, that NADA Guides is the sole source to use, that my friends are uninformed..etc. Like...wtf? If there's a website that contradicts the inflated value one puts over the other, you're damn right I'm siding with the lower scale. I mean why can they look at any prospective used vehicle and underestimate its price so low during a trade in? Based on the sole purpose that they have to make money? Value is value. Math don't lie.
Instead, he should recognize and acknowledge that his industry intentionally misleads people into entrapping themselves into loans that are clearly unfair. But of course not. This is why I steered clear of anything dealership related for so long. And honestly, I'll probably never go that route again. I was high on checking in on that other used MINI tomorrow, but I just lost my want to do so.
And I also hate the dealer too. Despite telling me numerous times that he's been doing this for 20+ years, he still got butthurt that I declined in the end when I told him -- with the info from friends both here and at work -- that $25 grand was teetering a bit too high. I get the song and dance that he's hid nothing from me, that NADA Guides is the sole source to use, that my friends are uninformed..etc. Like...wtf? If there's a website that contradicts the inflated value one puts over the other, you're damn right I'm siding with the lower scale. I mean why can they look at any prospective used vehicle and underestimate its price so low during a trade in? Based on the sole purpose that they have to make money? Value is value. Math don't lie.
Instead, he should recognize and acknowledge that his industry intentionally misleads people into entrapping themselves into loans that are clearly unfair. But of course not. This is why I steered clear of anything dealership related for so long. And honestly, I'll probably never go that route again. I was high on checking in on that other used MINI tomorrow, but I just lost my want to do so.
mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.
Re: Car buying
7% on a car loan is pretty standard.
Pack a vest for your james in the city of intercourse
Re: Car buying
I already own a lifted Jeep that's basically a gas guzzler to deal with harsh winters. It's either the MINI or a VW Diesel for better gas mileage and means to travel around Germany. Right now my 5 series BMW has been a nightmare of a car.Gunpowder wrote:Yeah, I don't understand the infatuation with this mobile tampon.The Sybian wrote:If you ever want to get laid again, I'd advise you buy a different car.
mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.
- The Sybian
- The Dude
- Posts: 19013
- Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:36 am
- Location: Working in the Crap Part of Jersey
Re: Car buying
Johnnie wrote:I already own a lifted Jeep that's basically a gas guzzler to deal with harsh winters. It's either the MINI or a VW Diesel for better gas mileage and means to travel around Germany. Right now my 5 series BMW has been a nightmare of a car.Gunpowder wrote:Yeah, I don't understand the infatuation with this mobile tampon.The Sybian wrote:If you ever want to get laid again, I'd advise you buy a different car.
Fuck it, get a SmartCar! I just find it funny going from a lifted Jeep to a Mini.
An honest to God cult of personality - formed around a failed steak salesman.
-Pruitt
-Pruitt
- govmentchedda
- The Dude
- Posts: 12778
- Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:36 pm
Re: Car buying
Not in my experience recently. I got a 1.75% rate earlier this year.Gunpowder wrote:7% on a car loan is pretty standard.
Until everything is less insane, I'm mixing weed with wine.
- A_B
- The Dude
- Posts: 23482
- Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:36 am
- Location: Getting them boards like a wolf in the chicken pen.
Re: Car buying
7% does seem very high to me.
You know what you need? A lyrical sucker punch to the face.
Re: Car buying
Johnnie wrote:Instead, he should recognize and acknowledge that his industry intentionally misleads people…
Upton Sinclair wrote:It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.
Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.
Those days are gone forever
Over a long time ago
Oh yeah…
Those days are gone forever
Over a long time ago
Oh yeah…
Re: Car buying
Yeah, I got 2.75 percent on a 60-month loan (from USAA) about 18 months ago. But I'd bet the interest rates are usually higher on used carsgovmentchedda wrote:Not in my experience recently. I got a 1.75% rate earlier this year.Gunpowder wrote:7% on a car loan is pretty standard.
Bandwagon fan of the 2023 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!
Re: Car buying
Current USAA rates right now for new car loans:Gunpowder wrote:7% on a car loan is pretty standard.
(Even the most you'll deal with for a used car loan is 2.75%)
mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.
-
- Brandt
- Posts: 471
- Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:41 pm
Re: Car buying
Last 2 cars I bought = 0%.
Always do your homework. If you are buying new, you can have the invoice price in hand walking in. You will have the manufacturer's bank's published promotional rate(if applicable) and any manufacturer's incentives. A decent smart phone can access a payment calculator, and anybody with some math skills will know if they are hiding charges.
Most dealers are aware of this, and there is more clarity in the buying experience than ever before.
Always do your homework. If you are buying new, you can have the invoice price in hand walking in. You will have the manufacturer's bank's published promotional rate(if applicable) and any manufacturer's incentives. A decent smart phone can access a payment calculator, and anybody with some math skills will know if they are hiding charges.
Most dealers are aware of this, and there is more clarity in the buying experience than ever before.
Re: Car buying
brian wrote:Yeah, I got 2.75 percent on a 60-month loan (from USAA) about 18 months ago. But I'd bet the interest rates are usually higher on used carsgovmentchedda wrote:Not in my experience recently. I got a 1.75% rate earlier this year.Gunpowder wrote:7% on a car loan is pretty standard.
That must be it.
Pack a vest for your james in the city of intercourse
- govmentchedda
- The Dude
- Posts: 12778
- Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:36 pm
Re: Car buying
FWIW, my 1.75% rate was on a slightly used (less than 1 yr old car). I think the rate was applicable for "new" cars, with "new" = less than 2 years old, in the eyes of my credit union.
Until everything is less insane, I'm mixing weed with wine.
-
- Brandt
- Posts: 471
- Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:41 pm
Re: Car buying
Just for shits and giggles, I looked up Mini's special offers.
Financing from 0-1.9%(.9 for the standard 60 month term).
$1000 discount for USAA members.
A nicely loaded 2014 Clubman is about $27k sticker.
Financing from 0-1.9%(.9 for the standard 60 month term).
$1000 discount for USAA members.
A nicely loaded 2014 Clubman is about $27k sticker.
- A_B
- The Dude
- Posts: 23482
- Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:36 am
- Location: Getting them boards like a wolf in the chicken pen.
Re: Car buying
You all are forgetting GPJ's straight cash homey lifestyle destroying his credit rating.
You know what you need? A lyrical sucker punch to the face.
Re: Car buying
Does that apply to me in Germany? Could it? That sounds pretty awesome regardless.devilfluff wrote:Just for shits and giggles, I looked up Mini's special offers.
Financing from 0-1.9%(.9 for the standard 60 month term).
$1000 discount for USAA members.
A nicely loaded 2014 Clubman is about $27k sticker.
mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.
Re: Car buying
AB_skin_test wrote:You all are forgetting GPJ's straight cash homey lifestyle destroying his credit rating.
It was in the high 700s. Student loans always helped me out.
Pack a vest for your james in the city of intercourse
Re: Car buying
The Sybian wrote:If you ever want to get laid again, I'd advise you buy a different car.
We can flesh out Syb's original comment with the merest of additions: "If you ever want to get laid again by a female that bathes . . . "howard wrote:Hippie chicks love that shit.
Your own personal AR-15 wielding Jesus
Re: Car buying
This ain't Vancouver. Hippie chicks down here bathe, now that we are in the 21st century.
Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.
Those days are gone forever
Over a long time ago
Oh yeah…
Those days are gone forever
Over a long time ago
Oh yeah…
Re: Car buying
Thus the NYC version are not unlike limousine liberals. Or champagne socialists. Or even lipstick lezzies. We need a proper pejorative name for that ilk. A true hippie chick abhors cars (all motor vehicles do is clog those enormous bike lanes! And drown polar bears), refuses to shave anything from her armpits on down, frees the puppies, disavows make-up and socks and bras, groupthinks, grows dreads, collects beads; the Fine Arts degree useful only in the creation of the nicer than ordinary protest signs, the ones with proper kerning and grammar, occasional wit in the wordplay. What to call that type of wayward watermelon? The "Bugatti Beatnik". Or perhaps the "Maserati Moonbat". From the "Peugeot Progressive" right on down to the "Volkswagen Vegan".
Your own personal AR-15 wielding Jesus
Re: Car buying
True. 'Hippie' is easy, lasy and inaccurate. Then again, so am I.Scottie wrote:We need a proper pejorative name for that ilk.
Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.
Those days are gone forever
Over a long time ago
Oh yeah…
Those days are gone forever
Over a long time ago
Oh yeah…
- The Sybian
- The Dude
- Posts: 19013
- Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:36 am
- Location: Working in the Crap Part of Jersey
Re: Car buying
Scottie wrote:Thus the NYC version are not unlike limousine liberals. Or champagne socialists. Or even lipstick lezzies. We need a proper pejorative name for that ilk. A true hippie chick abhors cars (all motor vehicles do is clog those enormous bike lanes! And drown polar bears), refuses to shave anything from her armpits on down, frees the puppies, disavows make-up and socks and bras, groupthinks, grows dreads, collects beads; the Fine Arts degree useful only in the creation of the nicer than ordinary protest signs, the ones with proper kerning and grammar, occasional wit in the wordplay. What to call that type of wayward watermelon? The "Bugatti Beatnik". Or perhaps the "Maserati Moonbat". From the "Peugeot Progressive" right on down to the "Volkswagen Vegan".
I think Vancouver, San Fran and probably Portland have a brand of lefties we just don't see on the East Coast.
An honest to God cult of personality - formed around a failed steak salesman.
-Pruitt
-Pruitt
-
- Brandt
- Posts: 471
- Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:41 pm
Re: Car buying
That is harder to answer. I don't know how the laws work for foreign transactions. It is certainly possible, though.Johnnie wrote:Does that apply to me in Germany? Could it? That sounds pretty awesome regardless.devilfluff wrote:Just for shits and giggles, I looked up Mini's special offers.
Financing from 0-1.9%(.9 for the standard 60 month term).
$1000 discount for USAA members.
A nicely loaded 2014 Clubman is about $27k sticker.
The car you were working with, was it priced in US$ or Euros(with a conversion for us)?
Is it a US spec'd car or EDM?
Did they mention any manufacturers programs?
Sprechen sie Deutsch? If so, check the Mini website for Germany(usually special offers are under a shopping tools header)
Re: Car buying
New study suggests bras aren't necessarily good. Maybe the hippies are on to something.
Pack a vest for your james in the city of intercourse
Re: Car buying
And now the POS BMW is randomly dying for no reason. I went to check the mail at my APO today and came back to it being completely dead when I cranked it. It was then able to crank afterwards when I opened and closed the hood. Like, wtf? That makes no sense.
$3,800 when I bought it. And a maybe $1,800 to fix sealing problems, overheating problems, and battery problems. Now I'm about to donate this thing for parts. So, so happy I'm made of money. :/
Combined with work, this whole "live in Germany" thing isn't turning it so awesomely. 18 months and I'm out of here. This is maddening.
$3,800 when I bought it. And a maybe $1,800 to fix sealing problems, overheating problems, and battery problems. Now I'm about to donate this thing for parts. So, so happy I'm made of money. :/
Combined with work, this whole "live in Germany" thing isn't turning it so awesomely. 18 months and I'm out of here. This is maddening.
mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.
Re: Car buying
Well, you've learned never to buy a $3,800 BMW. They aren't as bad as Jags but many of them end up with serious problems. Many of them electronic, in which case you're just fucked.
Pack a vest for your james in the city of intercourse
Re: Car buying
Hell, that tiptronic transmission is like $5K+ in itself.
Pack a vest for your james in the city of intercourse
Re: Car buying
That is an E39, right? I need a front passenger side interior door panel and door latch. Thanks in advance.
Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.
Those days are gone forever
Over a long time ago
Oh yeah…
Those days are gone forever
Over a long time ago
Oh yeah…
Re: Car buying
A buddy of mine is going to help me fix the electrical issue then off to the lemon lot it goes. Hopefully I can salvage something from it, but I'm not holding my breath.
mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.
Re: Car buying
If we have a car repair thread I can't find one, so will have to do.
My muffler fell most of the way off on the way home from work this evening. It looks like the brackets just completely rusted out and fell apart. The section on the exhaust leading to the muffler is no longer connected to the muffler. I can't really tell if the muffler itself is sound (ha!) or not. The car is a 10+ year old Saturn Vue that I need to run into the ground for at least another year. Anyone have a feel on a reasonable charge reattach and possibly replace a muffler?
My muffler fell most of the way off on the way home from work this evening. It looks like the brackets just completely rusted out and fell apart. The section on the exhaust leading to the muffler is no longer connected to the muffler. I can't really tell if the muffler itself is sound (ha!) or not. The car is a 10+ year old Saturn Vue that I need to run into the ground for at least another year. Anyone have a feel on a reasonable charge reattach and possibly replace a muffler?
I felt aswirl with warm secretions.
Re: Car buying
A buddy just had to have his replaced and all-in including install it was about $350. I'd guess if you just need it re-bracketed to your undercarriage it shouldn't run more than about $75 to $100 or so, but devilfluff would be the expert here.
Bandwagon fan of the 2023 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!
Re: Car buying
Mini's are a sweet ride. But you probably knew I'd say that. (I'd probably get one if it was more practical for winter driving.)
- The Sybian
- The Dude
- Posts: 19013
- Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:36 am
- Location: Working in the Crap Part of Jersey
Re: Car buying
What do you need a muffler for?
An honest to God cult of personality - formed around a failed steak salesman.
-Pruitt
-Pruitt