The Swamp

brian wrote:

Gunpowder wrote:We're holding out for a Tesla.

Me too, but I don't think the mass market Model 3 Tesla is going to be ready until at least 2017, when it's all said and done probably 2018 I'd bet.

I'm hoping to win the lottery before 2017, so I'll be in for a Model S.

I honestly crunched the numbers on a Model S and I could have afforded it if I made some sacrifices but didn't feel like it was worth it for a car. Depending on what Tesla does with the Model 3 and theoretical enhancements they should be able to make with the batteries thanks to their Gigafactory in Reno, the Model S might end up dropping in price to something more like $55K, which would make it do-able for me if I really wanted to splurge and the Model 3 doesn't do it for me for whatever reason.

I contacted 6 or 7 dealerships via email when I was on my car search last month, and as a result ended up on the mailing list for just about all of them. I thought I had unsubscribed from them all, but received an email from the sales guy I met with at one of the places, and who granted me the privilege of test driving three of their cars. He let me walk out that evening without putting up any sort of fight at all or even asking me to sit down after we drove, and any correspondence since then has been obvious form letters, referencing the car I initially contacted them about (but never actually drove or even saw). Not even a follow up to the "thanks" email I sent him that first evening. I ended up finding a car I wanted elsewhere.

Today's email suggested I could reply with "REMOVE" in the subject if I was no longer interested in receiving emails from them. I did so, and got the following reply:

thanks for all the terat (sic) drives! not a waste of time at all....

So much for considering his dealership "the next time you, your family, a friend or a co-worker are interested in a new or pre-owned vehicle," eh?

How well do they tip pizza delivery guys? And do they want to sell a Camaro?

We should all get into some weird bidding war on one of his cars via e-mail.

I got Morristown and Wilkes Barre to bid against each other via email with me just serving as the middleman. Easily the most money I've saved over a 6 hour span.

Tesla to announce specs on Model 3 and start taking orders in March 2016. (Deliveries not to begin until early 2018.)

My daughter will be 15 at the end of October. She'll probably get her drivers' license shortly after she turns 16. At that point, our plan will be to let her have my wife's 2010 Ford Escape, and get my wife a Tesla. Looking forward to it.

sancarlos wrote:My daughter will be 15 at the end of October. She'll probably get her drivers' license shortly after she turns 16. At that point, our plan will be to let her have my wife's 2010 Ford Escape, and get my wife a Tesla. Looking forward to it.

What's the insurance like in your parts?

My son got his license a few months ago, and we have to pay $1,600 per year for him to drive our 2011 Honda CRV and 2014 Nissan Altima.

If he gets the $5,000 car he wants, his insurance will be $7,000.

Pruitt wrote:

sancarlos wrote:My daughter will be 15 at the end of October. She'll probably get her drivers' license shortly after she turns 16. At that point, our plan will be to let her have my wife's 2010 Ford Escape, and get my wife a Tesla. Looking forward to it.

What's the insurance like in your parts?

My son got his license a few months ago, and we have to pay $1,600 per year for him to drive our 2011 Honda CRV and 2014 Nissan Altima.

If he gets the $5,000 car he wants, his insurance will be $7,000.

Jeebus! I haven't even looked into that, yet.

Oh. I bought a new car 2 weeks ago!



There are perks to not having kids. ;)

Babe magnet.

DC47 wrote:Babe magnet.

I'm sure my wife appreciates that aspect.

devilfluff wrote:

DC47 wrote:Babe magnet.

I'm sure my wife appreciates that aspect.

Subarus are supposed to be the car of choice for lesbians.

devilfluff wrote:Oh. I bought a new car 2 weeks ago!



There are perks to not having kids. ;)

My son - a car nerd - loves all subarus, especially this one. Apparently, people in the know think they are the best cars out there that can be bought for a reasonable amount of money.

That weird birdshit streak on the hood probably brings the value down though.

brian wrote:That weird birdshit streak on the hood probably brings the value down though.

Light pole reflection. It was awful shiny. ;)

devilfluff wrote:

brian wrote:That weird birdshit streak on the hood probably brings the value down though.

Light pole reflection. It was awful shiny. ;)

I know, was just being a dick.

Yeah, Suburu people love to soup those whips up.

I looked through previous lease discussions, but I didn't see this question answered. Is there any way to shop online at lease prices at various dealerships? Having the damnedest time finding anything useful. Went into a couple dealership very briefly. Why can't they just fucking give me a ballpark estimate assuming good credit scores? Fucking guy sits me down, asks for my drivers licence... I tell him I have 2 minutes, I don't have time for his drunk ass (yes, he smelled of booze at 10:15 in the morning) to fill out a bunch of forms. The car costs $x, if I drop $3,000 on the down payment, are we talking close to $200 or $400 a month? Rough guess, not holding you to anything. Do these people really have no idea? The woman at the Toyota dealer was good, but she had to go through a song and dance to derive the monthly payment. At least she was willing to give us an estimate on other models based on her song and dance.

My wife wants a 3-row SUV or minivan, but she isn't sure she feels comfortable driving a bigger vehicle, especially since we need to make a sharp 90 degree turn on the driveway to get into the garage. SUVs and minivans are also much more than she realized. Probably looking at a midsized sedan, Camry, Sonata, Mazda 6, Fusion ... There are a fuckton of dealerships, and I don't have the time to pop into too many of them to figure out lease prices. Are they all the same within a region? Set by the manufacturer or do individual dealerships set the rates? Toyota is giving 0% rates, which is nice.

What would 0% have to do with a lease?

(Am I missing interest on leases?)

Brontoburglar wrote:What would 0% have to do with a lease?

(Am I missing interest on leases?)

part of the lease price equation includes "money rate," which is like APR.

The Sybian wrote:

Brontoburglar wrote:What would 0% have to do with a lease?

(Am I missing interest on leases?)

part of the lease price equation includes "money rate," which is like APR.

Ah, I had no idea. I'd never looked into leasing a car.

The Sybian wrote:I looked through previous lease discussions, but I didn't see this question answered. Is there any way to shop online at lease prices at various dealerships? Having the damnedest time finding anything useful. Went into a couple dealership very briefly. Why can't they just fucking give me a ballpark estimate assuming good credit scores? Fucking guy sits me down, asks for my drivers licence... I tell him I have 2 minutes, I don't have time for his drunk ass (yes, he smelled of booze at 10:15 in the morning) to fill out a bunch of forms. The car costs $x, if I drop $3,000 on the down payment, are we talking close to $200 or $400 a month? Rough guess, not holding you to anything. Do these people really have no idea? The woman at the Toyota dealer was good, but she had to go through a song and dance to derive the monthly payment. At least she was willing to give us an estimate on other models based on her song and dance.

My wife wants a 3-row SUV or minivan, but she isn't sure she feels comfortable driving a bigger vehicle, especially since we need to make a sharp 90 degree turn on the driveway to get into the garage. SUVs and minivans are also much more than she realized. Probably looking at a midsized sedan, Camry, Sonata, Mazda 6, Fusion ... There are a fuckton of dealerships, and I don't have the time to pop into too many of them to figure out lease prices. Are they all the same within a region? Set by the manufacturer or do individual dealerships set the rates? Toyota is giving 0% rates, which is nice.

Toyota Highlander would have a nice narrow wheelbase but the seating you're looking for.

We have a highlander and the third row is not great. Fine for across town but anything more Han 20 minutes is probably gonna get uncomfortable.

Ford transits are pretty cheap. Not sure what the third row is like. Will eventually find one cargo style for company purposes.

Just go all out and get a Ford Econoline. Preferably from the 80s. Van sex!

If you need a third row, go with the Toyota Sienna van. Very high quality and hopefully not too crazy expensive. We had one for six years but sold it because we needed four-wheel drive. So we got the Highlander (hybrid), and like AB said, the third row is not very useful - and if you use the third row, then you have almost no storage in the way-back.

I love my wife's Honda Odyssey. The third row has tons of legroom for an adult, and the trunk still holds quite a bit. It's got WAY more storage than my Tahoe.

The Sybian wrote:

Brontoburglar wrote:What would 0% have to do with a lease?

(Am I missing interest on leases?)

part of the lease price equation includes "money rate," which is like APR.

Money rate is set by the bank. There may be promotional rates set by the manufacturer in association with their preferred lender.

It is primarily based on the expected value of the vehicle at the end of the lease and your credit.

This is one of the craziest things I've heard.

My brother's GF just got a new car. She got a deal from a dealership through her brother's HS wrestling team. Her dad facilitated the deal. She went and signed the papers on the car (a 2015 Escape) on Monday and has it in her possession.

Tuesday the dealership called and told her that the deal was not valid. Because the special that her dad facilitated was only for immediate family and she doesn't qualify. Despite the dealer not checking this when they made the sale. They wanted her to bring the car back to the dealership so she could re-sign the paperwork and pay $1100 more. I'm not kidding.

She and my brother have stalled and have been poring over the paperwork. Her dad got involved and the dealer didn't back down to him either, explaining that she wasn't eligible for the deal. Despite the fact that they gave her the deal and screwed this up themselves by selling her a car for cheaper than they were supposed to.

They still haven't backed down but yesterday she went and got the title officially put in her name. Last night the salesperson calls and asks her when she's coming up to the dealership today to get the paperwork sorted out. Despite, you know, the fact that she has the car, a contract and a title. She called him this morning and he asks her if she doesn't want to do the deal. She responded by telling him that the title was in her name so there was no deal to be done. It was already done. His only response was that she have a good day and he'd talk to his manager.

I can't comprehend this. Legally I can't imagine this dealership has any recourse (it's also $1100. Not crazy). They were the ones that agreed to the deal on the wrong terms -- and just because they made a mistake doesn't mean she should pay more for the car. Insane. I have to think they're going to be dropping it because this can't end well for them, nor is it worth the trouble.

Brontoburglar wrote:Despite, you know, the fact that she has the car, a contract and a title.

This should be the end of the discussion. There are some situations where one party's mistake is so obvious that the other party should know about it, and in those cases the mistaken party may be able to void a deal. But this doesn't sound anywhere close to that.

If the dealership was smart they would have acknowledged the mistake, informed her about it, said they had no intention of doing anything about it and that they hoped it would help influence her future business. Car dealerships more than just about any business somehow don't get the idea of trying to get a customer for life (I'm lucky in that my car dealer is pretty damn awesome. I don't see myself going anywhere else as long as I'm living in Las Vegas and the Ford Motor Company continues to be a going concern.)

I assume this is more about a disposable salesman about to be disposed of if he doesn't fix his mistake, right?

mister d wrote:I assume this is more about a disposable salesman about to be disposed of if he doesn't fix his mistake, right?

My thought, too. I was going to ask if anyone has contacted her in reference to this other than him.

brian wrote:If the dealership was smart they would have acknowledged the mistake, informed her about it, said they had no intention of doing anything about it and that they hoped it would help influence her future business. Car dealerships more than just about any business somehow don't get the idea of trying to get a customer for life (I'm lucky in that my car dealer is pretty damn awesome. I don't see myself going anywhere else as long as I'm living in Las Vegas and the Ford Motor Company continues to be a going concern.)

This is what I've been telling them. $1100 to a car dealer shouldn't be something to hassle someone for three days about, plus isn't it best that you say "hey, we messed up, but we made the deal so thanks for using our dealership."

By doing this they're alienating future customers. And worst case, they probably could have found a Ford dealer willing to do the original deal for them because they'd seize the opportunity of gaining goodwill and sniping a competitor.

He apparently told her today when she called him that "both parties made mistakes." Well done, buddy.

ETA: I've wondered that too, Mr. D. Though if the manager was at that point of the "you screwed up part" would he also be working very hard to get back the $1100?

ETA 2: When I said "dealer" in the original post, I meant manager. There have been multiple parties on behalf of the dealer advocating for a new deal.

mister d wrote:I assume this is more about a disposable salesman about to be disposed of if he doesn't fix his mistake, right?

Gotta be, and fuck that place. Local news would eat that story up.

mister d wrote:I assume this is more about a disposable salesman about to be disposed of if he doesn't fix his mistake, right?

Maybe, but $1,100 on a new Escape is not a crazy amount of money. I don't know the specifics of the deal in question, but I do know quite a bit about Ford's consumer pricing since I have family who are Ford retirees. Basically, there are three levels of discount pricing you can get (with some exceptions, which I'll talk about in a minute). Those are A-Plan, X-Plan and Z-Plan.

A-Plan is for current Ford employees and Z-Plan is for Ford retirees. This are basically the best discounts you can get. They're non-negotiable, but if the dealer really wants your business they can throw in free oil changes for life or some other types of add-ons and crazy shit like that. The price of the car is the price of the car though. Usually a couple hundred to maybe, maybe like $500 over dealer invoice. Essentially the dealer gets a few hundred bucks. The commissions on these suck, but the upside is that you don't spend a lot of time on them. It's like buying a gallon of milk from the store.

The X-Plan is essentially a friends and family or Ford supplier discount. Basically anyone with a pulse can get an X-Plan discount and it too is essentially not negotiable, but here's the point of all that setup. Because of that, the X-Plan price is essentially what a dealer will usually agree to let the car go for for a non A Plan or Z Plan customer UNLESS they're really just trying like hell to get the cars off their lot and they discount it even cheaper (it happens).

Depending on how nice the car is it's a few hundred to maybe a couple thousand more than dealer invoice. That's unless the car is some kind of super in-demand model, which I doubt would apply to a 2015 Escape.

So again, without knowing too much about it, I assume she was given the X-Plan price (on an Escape $1100 or so off sounds about right). But if so, that's pretty much what she could have negotiated the price down to. So if all my assumptions are correct, this is just a shady fucking dude or dealership trying to get some extra money.

Are they saying "give us $1,100" or "give us $1,100 or the deal is void"? Calling the bluff on the latter would be pretty fun.

Ive had disputes arise post payment of money and transfer of possession. In the funky car deals ive seen, the dealers have used some sort of bailment agreement in addition to the standard retail sales contract which is subject to financing and possibly other cancellation/termination rights. Dont think that permits the transfer of title though. Might check the paperwork carefully.