NFL Offseason Thread

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:59 pm

AB_skin_test wrote:Clowney ran a 4.47 and 4.48. Faster than all but about 5 Running backs.

And got out lifted by a punter.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:24 pm

Gunpowder wrote:I hate the "what does the combine have to do with real football?" comments, like people are making some great previously unrealized revelation.

Oh, you mean Gholston's Law.

Gunpowder wrote:Yeah, I get it, there's no broad jumps during a game.

For Ben Roethlisberger, that takes place in the bathroom at bar. HEEYYYOOO!

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:27 pm

Rush2112 wrote:
AB_skin_test wrote:Clowney ran a 4.47 and 4.48. Faster than all but about 5 Running backs.

And got out lifted by a punter.

He indeed did, but all of those long arms comments are true.

Weirdly enough, while the 40 has shown to have some correlation to NFL ability, the bench press has shown to be largely irrelevant.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:02 pm

The Sybian wrote:
Gunpowder wrote:I hate the "what does the combine have to do with real football?" comments, like people are making some great previously unrealized revelation.
Oh, you mean Gholston's Law.

Yeah, Gholston. Exhibit A on why the comments have some level of validity. Because regularly, otherwise intelligent scouts fall in love with a workout demon who isn't quite as good at, ya know, playing football.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:02 pm

Are you talking about the same Vernon Gholston that wrecked Jake Long in college?

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:04 pm

I'm talking about the one who got over-valued in his draft because of his combine.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:06 pm

Also the same guy who set the OSU single season sack record his final year there and was a projected top 15 pick when he declared (IIRC). He is anything but a combine creation. People who "watch the film" because "that's really playing football" were "completely fucking wrong" about him, as well.

For a true combine creation check out Dontari Poe, regarded by some as the NFL's top NT.

It's a tool and those who think they are the only ones who can see that there's no broad jump in a football game are not breaking any new ground.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:07 pm

sancarlos wrote:I'm talking about the one who got over-valued in his draft because of his combine.

Maybe a bit, but he was a big name before the combine. Chris Johnson got bumped up too, as did Matt Jones. There's a yin for all of these yangs and it's just a tool where you get all of these guys on a level playing field to check their raw athleticism, nothing more and nothing less.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:13 pm

sancarlos wrote:I'm talking about the one who got over-valued in his draft because of his combine.

I'm talking about the Vernon Gholston who finished his three year NFL career with exactly as many career sacks as I have. Combine just can't measure those intangibles.

I agree with Gunpowder's point that it is a tired argument. I think the combine has value and it is obvious that some players are workout beasts that don't have football awareness or the drive to succeed in the NFL. Just like (relatively) slow, weak guys with little ups can be good players like Wayne Chrebet. some guys just know how to get open and have great hands, or whatever the equivalent is for other positions. Some guys don't stay in shape for the combine (who was the OL that showed up extremely overweight and out of shape several years back?) and that shows poor work ethic and dedication.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:24 pm

For Sabo and AB... Could've put this one in the Onion thread (onion-like, but not the onion.)

NFL COMBINE: Top QB Prospects All Pretending To Be Awful Whenever Browns Scout Is Watching

INDIANAPOLIS – Blake Bortles, Teddy Bridgewater, and Johnny Manziel, considered to be the top rookie QB prospects heading into May’s NFL draft, have all apparently been pretending to be awful whenever the Cleveland Browns’ Jon Sandusky has been watching, according to combine sources.

“It’s weird,” said Sandusky, Director of Player Personnel for the Browns since 2010. “Johnny Manziel is supposed to be about six feet tall, right? Well when I put the tape to him, he measured less than 5’9. It sounds crazy, I know, but I think, he was bending his knees and slumping a little.”

Continued Sandusky: “And also, everyone I’ve spoken to says that Blake Bortles had a terrific combine. They told me his mechanics were strong, his form looked sharp, and his passes were crisp and on-target. But I walked up and told him that I was with the Browns, and that with a strong showing, he might just get himself selected by us with pick number four in May. Well, right after that he proceeded to go 0-10 in his next set of drills, and somehow managed to fumble three times despite the fact that he was only simulating the snaps. “

MORE...

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:28 pm

The Sybian wrote:
sancarlos wrote:I'm talking about the one who got over-valued in his draft because of his combine.

I'm talking about the Vernon Gholston who finished his three year NFL career with exactly as many career sacks as I have. Combine just can't measure those intangibles.

I agree with Gunpowder's point that it is a tired argument. I think the combine has value and it is obvious that some players are workout beasts that don't have football awareness or the drive to succeed in the NFL. Just like (relatively) slow, weak guys with little ups can be good players like Wayne Chrebet. some guys just know how to get open and have great hands, or whatever the equivalent is for other positions. Some guys don't stay in shape for the combine (who was the OL that showed up extremely overweight and out of shape several years back?) and that shows poor work ethic and dedication.

The Bengals own Andre Smith, who did manage one really good contract year before (I believe) reverting to suckishness again. Is he still good?

The Bengals also took Peter Warrick after a poor combine raised red flags on him.

Post by **Sabo** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:43 pm

sancarlos wrote:For Sabo and AB... Could've put this one in the Onion thread (onion-like, but not the onion.)

NFL COMBINE: Top QB Prospects All Pretending To Be Awful Whenever Browns Scout Is Watching

INDIANAPOLIS – Blake Bortles, Teddy Bridgewater, and Johnny Manziel, considered to be the top rookie QB prospects heading into May’s NFL draft, have all apparently been pretending to be awful whenever the Cleveland Browns’ Jon Sandusky has been watching, according to combine sources.

“It’s weird,” said Sandusky, Director of Player Personnel for the Browns since 2010. “Johnny Manziel is supposed to be about six feet tall, right? Well when I put the tape to him, he measured less than 5’9. It sounds crazy, I know, but I think, he was bending his knees and slumping a little.”

Continued Sandusky: “And also, everyone I’ve spoken to says that Blake Bortles had a terrific combine. They told me his mechanics were strong, his form looked sharp, and his passes were crisp and on-target. But I walked up and told him that I was with the Browns, and that with a strong showing, he might just get himself selected by us with pick number four in May. Well, right after that he proceeded to go 0-10 in his next set of drills, and somehow managed to fumble three times despite the fact that he was only simulating the snaps. “

MORE...

That's great. Sad thing is I could see someone doing that.

devilfluff · Post by **devilfluff** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:12 am

As for combine children, see Mike Mamula.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:03 am

devilfluff wrote:As for combine children, see Mike Mamula.

I believe he led the country* in sacks his senior year. He was going to be a first round pick if he never set foot at the combine.

Mamula was decent in the NFL but fell victim to injuries. I think the main reason he's regarded to be a complete combine creation is how good Warren Sapp became, because the combine bumped him ahead of Sapp.

*Looking it up, just the Big East, but he had 17 sacks his senior year. He was a top prospect due to his play.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:07 am

I think Matt Jones and Dontari Poe and Chris Johnson are more "products of the combine" than Mamula, although Mamula did start the trend of training for the specific combine drills. Trying to think of more.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:09 am

Jim Druckenmiller maybe. He had great workouts leading up to the draft.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:13 am

Gunpowder wrote:I think Matt Jones and Dontari Poe and Chris Johnson are more "products of the combine" than Mamula, although Mamula did start the trend of training for the specific combine drills. Trying to think of more.

But Poe has been pretty good, no? I know being a pro bowler doesn't mean you're awesome, but he made it this past year. For the interior linemen it isn't stats so much as reputation that get you on, I guess.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:19 am

AB_skin_test wrote:
Gunpowder wrote:I think Matt Jones and Dontari Poe and Chris Johnson are more "products of the combine" than Mamula, although Mamula did start the trend of training for the specific combine drills. Trying to think of more.
But Poe has been pretty good, no? I know being a pro bowler doesn't mean you're awesome, but he made it this past year. For the interior linemen it isn't stats so much as reputation that get you on, I guess.

Poe is considered by a lot of people to be the NFL's best NT.

Bumps due to combine performance were also given to (Google searched):

- Mario Williams
- JJ Watt
- Darrius Heyward-Bey (whoops)
- Adam Archuleta (good for a few years)
- Vernon Davis

There were also questions a few years ago about Luke Keuchly's speed before the combine. He's perhaps the NFL's best MLB.

It's just a tool. This dude Dri Archer that ran a 4.2 something is probably going to go like, 5th round.

Post by **brian** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:03 am

Gunpowder wrote:It's just a tool. This dude Dri Archer that ran a 4.2 something is probably going to go like, 5th round.

Archer might well go in the fifth round, but if he does he'll be the next Antonio Brown from the MAC. I told you all about Brown before he came out and I'm saying Archer is going to be just as good (albeit at a different position). Don't be fooled by his drop off in numbers his senior year -- he was hurt all that season pretty much.

Post by **brian** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:15 am

I haven't looked to see if he has a highlight reel on YouTube, but if he does check it out -- you won't be disappointed.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:38 am

I've seen it. I just don't know how it will translate at RB. Tavon Austin's highlights looked better and he only had one good game.

Post by **brian** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:48 am

Gunpowder wrote:I've seen it. I just don't know how it will translate at RB. Tavon Austin's highlights looked better and he only had one good game.

That's sort of accurate. He had one monster game, but it seemed as if the Rams finally figured out how to use him in the second half of the season before he got hurt (and/or Austin improved to the point where he had a bigger impact than first half, which did suck).

Archer's obviously not an every down back but if he goes to a team like Seattle or San Francisco that can use him as a slot/change of pace back to a bigger RB/kick returner he'll be a threat to get 2,000 yards a season (total, including returns)

Post by **Sabo** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:34 pm

Ryan Kalil and others sing to Jordan Gross at Gross's retirement press conference.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:30 pm

devilfluff wrote:As for combine children, see Mike Mamula.

Aaron Maybin had a poor combine as I recall, but then a month or so later was bigger, faster and stronger for Penn State pro day.

As a result, the Bills took him at #11 and solved their pass rush problems.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:43 pm

Pruitt wrote:
devilfluff wrote:As for combine children, see Mike Mamula.
Aaron Maybin had a poor combine as I recall, but then a month or so later was bigger, faster and stronger for Penn State pro day.

As a result, the Bills took him at #11 and solved their pass rush problems.

He was pretty good for the Jets when they first picked him up.

Post by **brian** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:10 am

Lions owner William Clay Ford is dead. Good riddance.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:29 pm

brian wrote:I haven't looked to see if he has a highlight reel on YouTube, but if he does check it out -- you won't be disappointed.

Well look at this:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... ock-draft/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's a Florio mock so it's probably insane (and a lot of it actually seems to be), but:

26. Browns (from Colts): Dri Archer, running back, Kent State.

The Browns keep swinging for the fences with a guy who could become the next Chris Johnson. (Before he went from being great to pretty good.)

Post by **brian** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:38 pm

That's pretty crazy. I think he's way undervalued in the fifth or sixth round, but I think mid to late second round isn't unreasonable given some of his unknowns (injuries, durability, etc.)

I don't think you can afford to take a guy who isn't an every down player with a first round pick, no matter how dynamic he is.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:58 pm

And this is the team that drafted Trent Richardson. That's going to be looming large...

Calling CB a "glaring weakness" for the Chiefs is an overstatement. Brandon Flowers, Sean Smith and Marcus Cooper aren't the best trio in the league, but they're far from the worst.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:45 am

Seeing Matt Schaub being linked to the Browns. I assume that would be in conjunction with them drafting a QB as well.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:09 am

Matt Schaub is broken

Post by **Shirley** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:27 am

Gunpowder wrote:Matt Schaub is broken

I didn't watch the Texans last year, but I was fascinated by the fall of Schaub. What really happened? I mean, the guy was nearly an elite QB for several years, including last year and then boom.

It seemed to me that he just had some bad luck with INTs returned for TDs (not bad luck in throwing the INT - that's on him - but that they were returned all the way). Did fans overreact to those plays and turn on him, or did he just lose confidence?

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:23 pm

Shirley wrote:Did fans overreact to those plays and turn on him, or did he just lose confidence?

Both.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:31 pm

Shirley wrote:
Gunpowder wrote:Matt Schaub is broken
I didn't watch the Texans last year, but I was fascinated by the fall of Schaub. What really happened? I mean, the guy was nearly an elite QB for several years, including last year and then boom.

It seemed to me that he just had some bad luck with INTs returned for TDs (not bad luck in throwing the INT - that's on him - but that they were returned all the way). Did fans overreact to those plays and turn on him, or did he just lose confidence?

Well, he's 33 and just had a lisfranc injury in 2012, which probably affected the hell out of him. Jake Locker had the same injury last year, so we'll see if the injury had anything to do with it.

EDIT: Looks like he had a decent 2012 after getting injured in 2011, but I have to imagine a foot injury like that can screw up a QB.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:59 pm

Shirley wrote:
Gunpowder wrote:Matt Schaub is broken
I didn't watch the Texans last year, but I was fascinated by the fall of Schaub. What really happened? I mean, the guy was nearly an elite QB for several years, including last year and then boom.

It seemed to me that he just had some bad luck with INTs returned for TDs (not bad luck in throwing the INT - that's on him - but that they were returned all the way). Did fans overreact to those plays and turn on him, or did he just lose confidence?

Kubiak, O-line getting dinged up/regressing, losing Foster, etc. It really started in December of 2012 when we were killed by the Patriots on MNF. By the playoff loss there later that season, he already had a "deer in the headlights" look about him whenever the pocket collapse or when he miraculously made it outside of it. I always heard Kubiak never let him audible either.

I think Schaub would be OK here next season and the only reason he won't be the QB is a) it makes too much sense to cut him this year instead of waiting and b) the fans here are really clamoring for Johnny Football and won't be happy if they don't pick him AND keep Schaub. But from my limited understanding of the NFL salary cap, option a will be the deciding factor.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:35 pm

Giff wrote:It really started in December of 2012 when we were killed by the Patriots on MNF.

You mean Homecoming 2012?

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:44 pm

Rush2112 wrote:
Giff wrote:It really started in December of 2012 when we were killed by the Patriots on MNF.

You mean Homecoming 2012?

Exfuckingactly. They have been just g-d awful since that stunt.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:48 pm

Giff wrote:
Exfuckingactly. They have been just g-d awful since that stunt.

At least they aren't getting blown out every game. Didn't they lead the league on close loses?

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:00 pm

DeMarcus Ware was released.

And Edelman is testing free agency.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:14 pm

Johnnie wrote:And Edelman is testing free agency.

I think he'll be back. The sides came close prior to the start of FA, I think he just wants to comparison shop first.