The Swamp

This is where one makes the project organization completely confusing so that no one can step right into it.

I'm taking a mandated Workplace Harassment and Discrimination course for work. I'm fine with that. But this course is penalizing me for going too fast. I skipped listening to their slow narration and just read the text which is the same. Much faster that way. But I just got to a page that said I'm going too fast and have to wait for a time - there's literally an image of a stopwatch and it's counting down. So for 6 minutes, I can't continue. How is this making the course any better? It's not like it's making me learn during those 6 minutes. It's not even showing me content other than the stupid clock.

Is it harassment if I think that HR folks can be really annoying sometimes?

(I do understand that there may be some law for management training that requires a minimum time. But still, it's dumb.)

I remember encountering the same issue. I think they think they are keeping you from just zipping through it and not learning anything.

sancarlos wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 5:40 pm I remember encountering the same issue. I think they think they are keeping you from just zipping through it and not learning anything.

That's what the quizzes are for. I just got another 4.5 minute penalty. Back to basketball...

That's really dumb. They make us take what is basically the same 3 or so training courses every year. I don't need to read the text or watch the videos. One is on cybersecurity. I used to work for a cybersecurity firm. I don't need to keep reading the same shit over and over. If they made me do that on a timer, I'd go ballistic.

The ethics and harassment stuff... I've been at this joint for 12 years... If I don't understand the do's and dont's at this point, I'm kind of being willfully ignorant/obtuse.

Shirley wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 5:33 pm I'm taking a mandated Workplace Harassment and Discrimination course for work. I'm fine with that. But this course is penalizing me for going too fast. I skipped listening to their slow narration and just read the text which is the same. Much faster that way. But I just got to a page that said I'm going too fast and have to wait for a time - there's literally an image of a stopwatch and it's counting down. So for 6 minutes, I can't continue. How is this making the course any better? It's not like it's making me learn during those 6 minutes. It's not even showing me content other than the stupid clock.

Is it harassment if I think that HR folks can be really annoying sometimes?

(I do understand that there may be some law for management training that requires a minimum time. But still, it's dumb.)

The US Boat Safety course has the same thing..but even worse. They have delays like that on transition pages.

I finally snapped with the problem developer. He was yelling at me for asking for something to be put at the top of his priority list in the ADO ticket, not changed in the stack rank list (no one uses that).

I finally said "I don't work for you. You aren't my boss. You don't get to tell me what to do".

His manager was sitting there and heard everything, and said he would talk to him.

Not sure why it reminded me of this tweet, but it did ...

That actually rhymes if you're speaking Utahan.

Does anybody know how to calculate the Mean from a dataset? For example...

This training was useful to me in my current role:

Strongly Disagree - 7 / 4.09%
Disagree - 4 / 2.34%
Agree - 64 / 37.43%
Strongly Agree - 96 / 56.14%
Total - 171 / 100%

The Googles are telling me it's just the average, but the average of what exactly? I can average the number of responses and get 42.75, but the number I am looking for should not be higher than 4. It should be like 3.44 or something to that effect. Am I confusing Mean with something else?

You have to assign a 1-4 value, add up the four and then divide by 171. Average of 3.456.

1 x 7 = 7
2 x 4 = 8
3 x 64 = 192
4 x 96 = 384

Thank you, D!!!

Jesus, computer based training in civilian land makes you wait because you went too fast!?

Don't tell that to the military. There are literal websites dedicated to the answers of all of them for us so that we can burn through them as quick as possible.

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 5:52 pm That's really dumb. They make us take what is basically the same 3 or so training courses every year. I don't need to read the text or watch the videos. One is on cybersecurity. I used to work for a cybersecurity firm. I don't need to keep reading the same shit over and over. If they made me do that on a timer, I'd go ballistic.

The ethics and harassment stuff... I've been at this joint for 12 years... If I don't understand the do's and dont's at this point, I'm kind of being willfully ignorant/obtuse.

A lot of states have time requirements (e.g. one hour of interactive learning), so if the computer program doesn't ensure you go at their pace, the employer may not get credit for meeting the training requirements in the event of a harassment claim, and that can lead to more damages.

The Sybian wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 5:37 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 5:52 pm That's really dumb. They make us take what is basically the same 3 or so training courses every year. I don't need to read the text or watch the videos. One is on cybersecurity. I used to work for a cybersecurity firm. I don't need to keep reading the same shit over and over. If they made me do that on a timer, I'd go ballistic.

The ethics and harassment stuff... I've been at this joint for 12 years... If I don't understand the do's and dont's at this point, I'm kind of being willfully ignorant/obtuse.

A lot of states have time requirements (e.g. one hour of interactive learning), so if the computer program doesn't ensure you go at their pace, the employer may not get credit for meeting the training requirements in the event of a harassment claim, and that can lead to more damages.

Our employees read too fast to be held liable, your honor.

The Sybian wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 5:37 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 5:52 pm That's really dumb. They make us take what is basically the same 3 or so training courses every year. I don't need to read the text or watch the videos. One is on cybersecurity. I used to work for a cybersecurity firm. I don't need to keep reading the same shit over and over. If they made me do that on a timer, I'd go ballistic.

The ethics and harassment stuff... I've been at this joint for 12 years... If I don't understand the do's and dont's at this point, I'm kind of being willfully ignorant/obtuse.

A lot of states have time requirements (e.g. one hour of interactive learning), so if the computer program doesn't ensure you go at their pace, the employer may not get credit for meeting the training requirements in the event of a harassment claim, and that can lead to more damages.

Yes, we have the file right here. Mr. Shirley spent 87 minutes on his harassment training and another 33 minutes watching a timer during his harassment training. We're covered there!

Jerloma wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 3:52 pmThank you, D!!!

Don't even need to ... this one.

Serious question: At what point does it become appropriate to report someone to HR about creating a toxic workplace?

I'm asking because of that one co-worker that I've been dealing with for months. He's gotten so bad that absolutely no one wants to work with him. He's pissed off all of the CX people who have to deal with him, to the point where they are coming to me to complain. He's pissed me off so much that I get stressed out just walking into work at the thought of having to deal with him. Every meeting with him is just hoping that he isn't a jerk to someone. And everyone I've talked to agrees that he's being an asshole.

After finally losing my cool with him yesterday, I was really beating myself up about it. It reminded me of dealing with my ex-wife, where if I finally snapped back, it felt like they had won. I talked to his manager, my manager, and my senior manager, and they all told me I was fine, and that they were surprised it had taken this long for me to reach my limit.

My senior manager asked if I wanted him to "do something"...and I declined, saying that I'd talked with the guys manager already...but after talking with Caity last night about it, I think the "just talking to him" isn't going to do it. I'm thinking that this has to go to HR, and get him on a PIP, with real consequences if he doesn't get his shit together.

But does that make me a "narc"? I've always been the "mind your own business" type, but this is my business now, and its definitely having a negative impact on the company.

So...thoughts?

Do it. You've got one life and spend at least 40 hours a week there. Fuck that dude.

As an Employee Relations Manager, you are well past the point of this problem needing addressing. You won't be seen as a narc, but a hero, because everyone else is having the same issues. You've posted here several times about other people coming to you to complain about him, so this is a much bigger issue than just you being frustrated. From what you wrote about his manager's response, she has been hearing a lot of other people complain or sees his behavior and is more than aware that it's a problem. The manager is failing to control him, and I get the sense that it's getting worse. The manager needs to reach out to HR, and if she isn't, you absolutely should. Since this isn't a "workplace complaint" in the legal sense (harassment, discrimination or retaliation), they don't have to tell him who brought the grievance. HR and his manager need to coach him on the proper behavior expected, let him know how he is effecting others, and let him know how his behavior is detrimental to the team's and businesses goals and probably put him on a PIP. My guess, a guy like this guy isn't going to change, and the PIP makes it really easy to fire him if he doesn't.

Narc shit is telling on someone for logging in late or taking a two hour lunch, not tanking the morale of an entire department through clearly unacceptable behavior.

Well, fortunately for you, I just completed a 2-hour (not a second less!) training course on harassment in the workplace. Once you notified a manager, that manager had a duty to do something about - specifically talking to HR. But whether that actually happened or not, you should go to HR. This guy is bothering a lot of people and creating a hostile workplace. HR should take it from there.

Shirley wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 12:14 pm Well, fortunately for you, I just completed a 2-hour (not a second less!) training course on harassment in the workplace. Once you notified a manager, that manager had a duty to do something about - specifically talking to HR. But whether that actually happened or not, you should go to HR. This guy is bothering a lot of people and creating a hostile workplace. HR should take it from there.

I'm going to suggest you retake the training, because this isn't a hostile work environment situation unless the guy is treating specific groups of people differently because they are a member of a protected class. Not trying to be a pedantic prick about this, but a major annoyance after taking 100s of hostile work environment claims that aren't, and having angry employees demand an investigation. Your boss may be an asshole and scream at everyone or throw a book at your head, but that doesn't create a hostile work environment. It should create a policy violation and warrant discipline. In this situation, the manager would not be required to report the grievances to HR, although they should, unless there is an allegation of discrimination or harassment based on a protected class.

ETA: Unless you attended the Michael Scott sensitivity training, then you got the message correct.

Mister D this post.

The Sybian wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 12:36 pm

Shirley wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 12:14 pm Well, fortunately for you, I just completed a 2-hour (not a second less!) training course on harassment in the workplace. Once you notified a manager, that manager had a duty to do something about - specifically talking to HR. But whether that actually happened or not, you should go to HR. This guy is bothering a lot of people and creating a hostile workplace. HR should take it from there.

I'm going to suggest you retake the training, because this isn't a hostile work environment situation unless the guy is treating specific groups of people differently because they are a member of a protected class. Not trying to be a pedantic prick about this, but a major annoyance after taking 100s of hostile work environment claims that aren't, and having angry employees demand an investigation. Your boss may be an asshole and scream at everyone or throw a book at your head, but that doesn't create a hostile work environment. It should create a policy violation and warrant discipline. In this situation, the manager would not be required to report the grievances to HR, although they should, unless there is an allegation of discrimination or harassment based on a protected class.

ETA: Unless you attended the Michael Scott sensitivity training, then you got the message correct.

Nice try, moron, but I got 100% on the quiz at the end.

Thanks for all the good feedback on my situation. I've decided I'm going to tell my boss on Monday that we need to escalate the situation to HR and get them involved. This has gotta stop.

i have a team manager who got tired of going to their manager, going to me; having me to go the director in question and to her manager (a VP) or even raise it to her VP...

so the team manager filed multiple HR complaints -

all resulting .. in the other director may be bad at her job, but she isn't doing anything that is HR related...so now we get a big happy meeting wiht all parties and HR there just for hte heck of it.

the reality is .. the manager and her manager (my direct report) are making a lot of assumptions and reading tone in eamil and teams messages...
taking things personally and reading into things taht aren't just there -- the other director is oblivious but i don't see ill intent (and neither does HR)

and then when the meeting was called, the manager in question said, no.. i don't want to participate i want you to fix it...
honey..no... you don't get to call people out based on your insecurities and then back out because you know there's nothing there....

so happy i have new responsibilities that will take me away from that toxic business unit for at least 80 to 90% of the time.. i've been in corp america for 30 years.. with a brief interlude in startup environment in east africa-- i have never encountered such level of toxicity or ineptness anywhere (at least all together in in one place). i have my parachute but will do my best to keep this farce going until they finally sunset the product (already defunded for the rest of this year)

I sent a teams message to my manager, and my senior level manager this message, saying that after long consideration (*didn't mention I'd asked for advice here) over the weekend, I thought this needed to be escalated to HR.

Both of them were totally on my side, and my senior level manager said he'd take over the process.

*( I did ask my father for guidance on the situation...he was an engineer for years, and a manager for a lot of his career, so I figured he'd have some insight. Plus it always makes his day when I ask him for advice.

He told me he would have fired the guy months ago. )

Good luck, DiS!

Yeah, my dad also loves it when somebody, especially a younger relative, asks him for advice. Nothing he likes better than that. (And, I think he would have responded exactly like your father did.)

sancarlos wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2024 2:15 pm Good luck, DiS!

Yeah, my dad also loves it when somebody, especially a younger relative, asks him for advice. Nothing he likes better than that. (And, I think he would have responded exactly like your father did.)

I've had times where I save something up and ask my father for advice for his birthday or Christmas.

“Dad …”
“Yes, Dave In Seattle?”

Welp...have my meeting with the HR Rep starting in 15 minutes...regarding the troublesome co-worker.

DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:49 pm Welp...have my meeting with the HR Rep starting in 15 minutes...regarding the troublesome co-worker.

I hope they are able to help resolve this.

zoom link?

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:13 pmzoom link?

Oh man, I would LOVE to watch this.

The Sybian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:23 pm

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:13 pmzoom link?

Oh man, I would LOVE to watch this.

Hah...it was not that exciting. Just my manager and the HR guy, going through stuff that he already knew about mostly. He had already talked with the guys manager, and a few other people as well. And my manager totally backed me up, and had a few incidents of his own to add to the pile.

Here is a relatable analogy to a response I received from a co-worker about a connectivity error one of our law firm users is having trying to submit some information...an error she has reported each month for three months straight now which eventually gets resolved.

Me to doctor showing him my arm out of socket for the third month in a row: Hey doc, you think you can figure out why this is the third month my arm has come out of socket.

Doc: Impossible, I saw you three weeks ago after I put your arm back in the socket and it was fine. Remember?

Giff wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 9:15 am

A_B wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 9:08 am

Giff wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 9:06 am Why did that person leave in the first place?

Moved to take care of his mother.

(That sounded ominous. He moved to be the primary caregiver for his mother.)

Sounds like you're not happy his mom got better tbh.

Seriously though, to me that seems like it would be less worrisome knowing that.

Update! It turns out his mom IS better. Had a bad downturn but now has recovered and is as fine as an 88 year old woman can be apparently. So forgive my ignorance.

Anyway, he is back working for us. I don't know what it means for me, but it doesn't feel good.