Friday Discussion: Most Beloved Living Athlete

Post by **brian** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:13 pm

Got thinking about this as an offshoot to the (deserved) affection directed at Nelson Mandela and all the media fellation of Derek Jeter regarding his retirement.

But who is the most universally beloved living athlete? Before he passed away, you could have made a strong case for Stan Musial. Now I'm thinking it comes down to basically three or four guys:

Willie Mays
Gordie Howe
And my personal opinion, Hank Aaron.

Any other candidates? (I couldn't really think of any good basketball or football players that might fit the bill.)

Post by **Sabo** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:17 pm

I think you can include Pele in that list.

Scottie · Post by **Scottie** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:21 pm

Gordie Howe. Tremendous choice, Brian.

Cassius Clay?

ETA: One of the coolest (in the "how cannot you not absolutely love this man" way) until he passed away in '06 was Buck O'Neil. Buck, of course, didn't have the fame of those previously mentioned.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:25 pm

Scottie wrote:Gordie Howe. Tremendous choice, Brian.

Cassius Clay?

ETA: One of the coolest (in the "how cannot you not absolutely love this man" way) until he passed away in '06 was Buck O'Neil. Buck, of course, didn't have the fame of those previously mentioned.

Draft-dodging, Muslim? You might get some static on that one. At least in the U.S.

Post by **brian** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:27 pm

Muhammad Ali and Pele are good choices too. I don't think too many people harbor any kind of grudge against Ali for his actions during Vietnam any more.

devilfluff · Post by **devilfluff** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:31 pm

Given the 40 years of backlash against 'Nam, its unlikely to be much of a negative against Ali.

He'd be a contender. Probably the favorite.

Jordan might be worth discussing, also.

Scottie · Post by **Scottie** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:40 pm

Jerloma wrote:Draft-dodging, Muslim? You might get some static on that one. At least in the U.S.

I'm quite honestly surprised to see that. Americans largely pretend the Vietnam War never occurred; it's certainly not a period of American history held up as exemplary or glorious. Of all possible American choices, Atlanta '96 chose Ali to light the Olympic flame (to a thunderous sustained ovation). I don't believe I've heard a disparaging remark about Ali since I was a kid. If even then.

And Muhammad Ali is about as Islamist as Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. They're effectively Nerf Muslims.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:49 pm

Scottie wrote:
Jerloma wrote:Draft-dodging, Muslim? You might get some static on that one. At least in the U.S.
I'm quite honestly surprised to see that. Americans largely pretend the Vietnam War never occurred; it's certainly not a period of American history held up as exemplary or glorious. Of all possible American choices, Atlanta '96 chose Ali to light the Olympic flame (to a thunderous sustained ovation). I don't believe I've heard a disparaging remark about Ali since I was a kid. If even then.

And Muhammad Ali is about as Islamist as Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. They're effectively Nerf Muslims.

Okay, I stand corrected but didn't a bunch of dark shit come out on Ali specifically in reference to the Frazier? Like in Manila for instance he was begging Dundee to quit and Frazier was begging to keep fighting and oddly it was Frazier's side that threw in the towel. Not to mention really just being a condescending prick to the guy who petitioned for Ali to get reinstated after that draft incident.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:50 pm

I'll throw Bill Russell into the mix.

Koufax? Does anyone care about Koufax?

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:57 pm

I think for his stature, Aaron is quite under the radar compared to the reverence you'd think he'd get.

A lot of people think Jordan was a prick. Ali is probably a good one but he's fallen apart to the point that people just feel sad for him.

This is a good question and I think if you ask this a year ago, it was Stan Musial. I gotta think.

Tom 1860 · Post by **Tom 1860** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:23 pm

In the UK a lot of people would say Bobby Moore and almost certainly Mary Peters.

Sachin Tendulker would be a name to mention...

What about Tom Watson and/or Jack Nicklaus??

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:27 pm

Tom 1860 wrote:In the UK a lot of people would say Bobby Moore and almost certainly Mary Peters.

Sachin Tendulker would be a name to mention...

What about Tom Watson and/or Jack Nicklaus??

I think Tiger Woods set golf in general down a bit, relative to its reverence in 2008.

Dale Earnhardt may have been an answer to this 12 or so years ago.

Tom 1860 · Post by **Tom 1860** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:31 pm

I know I mentioned Bobby Moore and Mary Peters, who are probs very unknown outside of the UK, but you North Americans need to understand just how many people in the world are not interested in/aware of NASCAR, the NHL and Baseball (I really like the NHL by the way).

Just saying...

Post by **brian** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:33 pm

Gunpowder wrote:
Tom 1860 wrote:In the UK a lot of people would say Bobby Moore and almost certainly Mary Peters.

Sachin Tendulker would be a name to mention...

What about Tom Watson and/or Jack Nicklaus??

I think Tiger Woods set golf in general down a bit, relative to its reverence in 2008.

Dale Earnhardt may have been an answer to this 12 or so years ago.

I would argue that Arnold Palmer is probably more beloved than either of those guys anyway.

Tom 1860 · Post by **Tom 1860** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:36 pm

brian wrote:
Gunpowder wrote:
Tom 1860 wrote:In the UK a lot of people would say Bobby Moore and almost certainly Mary Peters.

Sachin Tendulker would be a name to mention...

What about Tom Watson and/or Jack Nicklaus??

I think Tiger Woods set golf in general down a bit, relative to its reverence in 2008.

Dale Earnhardt may have been an answer to this 12 or so years ago.
I would argue that Arnold Palmer is probably more beloved than either of those guys anyway.

I was going to say Arnold, but I was unsure he would be alive by the time this thread ends...

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:38 pm

You guys got there, but the answer is Arnold Palmer.

devilfluff · Post by **devilfluff** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:41 pm

Where does Montana fall?

Tom 1860 · Post by **Tom 1860** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:42 pm

AB_skin_test wrote:You guys got there, but the answer is Arnold Palmer.

Funny thing being about the old golfers, Palmer, Watson, Nicklaus etc. I would argue that Gary Player would be right up there on the most hated list. That man is an arrogant cunt!

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:42 pm

devilfluff wrote:Where does Montana fall?

Maybe when he gets a bit older he'll be like Unitas

devilfluff · Post by **devilfluff** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:58 pm

Tom 1860 wrote:I know I mentioned Bobby Moore and Mary Peters, who are probs very unknown outside of the UK, but you North Americans need to understand just how many people in the world are not interested in/aware of NASCAR, the NHL and Baseball (I really like the NHL by the way).

Just saying...

It's a legitimate argument. Worldwide vs American.

Post by **Shirley** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:22 pm

My guess is it's Ali by a wide margin. I don't think anyone else is even close, at least in this part of the world.

Despite probably being a dick, I'm pretty sure Jordan would still rate pretty high. I bet a lot more Americans know who Ali and Jordan are than Mays, Aaron, or (especially) Howe.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:25 pm

I'd say Pele worldwide. Ali in the US. And Willie Mays in San Francisco.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:36 pm

Bobby Orr - at least here in Canada (and I'm sure in the boston area)

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:37 pm

I think it's still Ali, it was magical when he lit the torch in 1996.

What about Roger Federer? Or going back further, everyone loves Rod Laver.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:47 pm

Jordan would have been the answer in his prime or shortly after retiring, but then he came off as a total prick with a gambling addiction. The baseball year didn't help his cause either. I'd say the athlete with the most legend surrounding him is Babe Ruth, but i wouldn't call him the most beloved.

My personal all-time favorite, who probably falls just short of America's all-time favorite is Pat LaFontaine. Never been a biger fan of any player, except for maybe Dennis Bergkamp. You gotta love the Non-Flying Dutchman!

Post by **brian** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:59 pm

I think I'll amend my answer to be Ali -- both in the US and Worldwide.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:04 pm

degenerasian wrote:I think it's still Ali, it was magical when he lit the torch in 1996.

What about Roger Federer? Or going back further, everyone loves Rod Laver.

The Swamp doesn't understand Federer.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:15 pm

You'd have to consider that there's like a billion people on this planet under 25 that would have no reverence for Ali or even Pelé. If it came down to a planet-wide vote, the answer would probably be Ronaldo, Messi, Tendulkar, or whoever China breaks for.

Post by **brian** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:28 pm

Ali transcends sports though. You have to figure there are hundreds of millions of women and non-sports fans who know who he is and couldn't pick Messi out of a lineup.

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:30 pm

I'll second Pele worldwide and probably Ali in the U.S. As divisive as Ali was in his youth, it seems that all but a few hardcore conservatives revere him nowadays. He got the Presidential Medal of Freedom from Dubya, ffs.

Surprised that Bird and Magic haven't at least gotten a mention yet. They seem to be almost universally liked, don't they? Are they just not considered high-profile enough? Magic would probably be near the top if AIDS hadn't improbably stopped being as big of a deal as it was 20 years ago.

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:32 pm

I am surprised Ali for US fans and both Ali and Pele internationally are not the beginning and end of this discussion. Another generational difference, slapping me in my wrinkled face. (This seems to be occurring more frequently.) Also a reminder not only how far boxing has fallen, but how quickly the sport has faded from worldwide bfd to irrelevance. Ali was the most prominent face of the anti-war sentiment in this country, and retroactively the entire generation of Boomers were anti-war. A lot of posters on a lot of dorm room walls. After MLK was murdered, Ali's face became a top de facto representation of equal rights for black Americans, winning his case against the US government in the Supreme Court, affirming his right to earn a living as well as to not go to war. Of course, Ali transcended his sport; he was and is an international icon. His was arguably the most recognized face on the planet, and not negatively (in contrast to, say Hitler.) Of course, generational, abroad as well as home.

No Magic/Bird mentions. Interesting.

Koufax would be much more beloved were he not so private/reclusive. Bill Russell deserves more love, but he was far too honest and outspoken for mass appeal (bless him.) These two are at the top of my personal list.

Interesting LeBron has turned so quickly from heel to topic of this discussion. These things happen much more quickly nowadays.

The idea of Jeter, outside of NY, or for that matter Brady, outside of NE as the most beloved living athlete is amusing.

My first pro golf tournament, the '77 PGA at Pebble Beach, taught me the star power of Arnie, and the size of his Army. At one time, Palmer was certainly up there. AB, we gettin' old, man.

Wanna hear something funny? There was a time when the winner of a poll like this would've been Bruce Jenner. Sure, OJ too.

Younger folks in the Bay Area, like my niece, are so sick of hearing us rant about Willie Mays, they just meekly agree with us, ok, whatever Uncle Howard, he's the greatest.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:34 pm

P.D.X. wrote:You'd have to consider that there's like a billion people on this planet under 25 that would have no reverence for Ali or even Pelé. If it came down to a planet-wide vote, the answer would probably be Ronaldo, Messi, Tendulkar, or whoever China breaks for.

if this is the case it's David Beckham by a mile.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:16 pm

degenerasian wrote:
P.D.X. wrote:You'd have to consider that there's like a billion people on this planet under 25 that would have no reverence for Ali or even Pelé. If it came down to a planet-wide vote, the answer would probably be Ronaldo, Messi, Tendulkar, or whoever China breaks for.
if this is the case it's David Beckham by a mile.

Yes.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:42 am

brian wrote:Muhammad Ali and Pele are good choices too. I don't think too many people harbor any kind of grudge against Ali for his actions during Vietnam any more.

I'll take that bet (about Ali). Go back and read some of the comments at places like National Review or (even worse) Free Republic about Mandela after he died. And Ali was far more controversial then Mandela, in this country at least.

I think Palmer is a good call. He has a drink named after him, after all! And Hank Aaron.

That French Guy · Post by **That French Guy** » Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:01 am

degenerasian wrote:
P.D.X. wrote:You'd have to consider that there's like a billion people on this planet under 25 that would have no reverence for Ali or even Pelé. If it came down to a planet-wide vote, the answer would probably be Ronaldo, Messi, Tendulkar, or whoever China breaks for.
if this is the case it's David Beckham by a mile.

Is it (real question) ? It's most beloved, not most famous. Was he really beloved while on the Galaxy ? He was with PSG last spring but I didn't get that vibe at all.
My vote is for Messi (worldwide). Many hate CR7 for his looks or attitude, but it seems almost no one hates Messi (save for the diehard Madridistas, Brazilians or the Spanish Tax Bureau).

Tom 1860 · Post by **Tom 1860** » Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:58 am

That French Guy wrote:
degenerasian wrote:
P.D.X. wrote:You'd have to consider that there's like a billion people on this planet under 25 that would have no reverence for Ali or even Pelé. If it came down to a planet-wide vote, the answer would probably be Ronaldo, Messi, Tendulkar, or whoever China breaks for.
if this is the case it's David Beckham by a mile.
Is it (real question) ? It's most beloved, not most famous. Was he really beloved while on the Galaxy ? He was with PSG last spring but I didn't get that vibe at all.
My vote is for Messi (worldwide). Many hate CR7 for his looks or attitude, but it seems almost no one hates Messi (save for the diehard Madridistas, Brazilians or the Spanish Tax Bureau).

I don't think Beckham was loved by fans (even at Man Utd, where they loved Cantona and Scholes far more during his playing days). Beckham would probs not be in the top 5 most beloved Man Utd players: Edwards, Charlton, Cantona, Best, Law, Giggs and Scholes would rank higher.

I still believe that this thread has a massive North American bias. I don't know if that is because you guys don't follow enough sport beyond your boarders or just because there are a lot more of you on this board. Either way, it is a sad reflection of this board's appreciation of world sport.

I love North American sport and follow it a lot, but only in the last 30 years has it really become global (Baseball and American football are not really that well known at all outside of your boarders). To even mention an NFL player or a baseball player is folly. Basketball is very very popular and NBA players started to make a noise on the world stage when the Celtics were battling the Lakers, but I would have a hard time thinking of one who is globally beloved.

Golf has some top names and Palmer would be right up there. Tennis maybe, but I think the answer to this question has to be
Tendulkar or a footballer. Just from a numbers standpoint really.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:05 am

Messi

teeteebee · Post by **teeteebee** » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:25 am

So we're just ruling Darren Sharper out at this point, right?

kranepool · Post by **kranepool** » Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:09 pm

The absence of Mookie Wilson in this thread is disturbing.

But I agree with dgen and sck, given the "most universally beloved living athlete" parameter, that the top four are probably Beckham, Pele, Ali, and Jordan, and in that order.

howard · Post by **howard** » Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:52 pm

T. J. Oshie