The Swamp

brian wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:07 am

rass wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:02 am I think you're making AB's point.

If you have kids you never have cash? (Because they're asking for it?).

I'm legitimately confused/don't understand.

I think that's the implication. Though I must say, my 17 year old has no concept of carrying or using cash. She simply isn't interested in any place that doesn't take my Visa... ;-)

Being a strong believer in old-timey ways, I go into a bank branch once a week to take out as much cash as I expect I'll need. Can't recall how many times the tellers have tried to gently urge me towards the ATMs.

bfj wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:29 amThen the merchant should have credit card minimum purchase requirements.

I don't think costing themselves a sale altogether is "smart business".

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:40 am

bfj wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:29 amThen the merchant should have credit card minimum purchase requirements.

I don't think costing themselves a sale altogether is "smart business".

I agree, so take my credit card and stop bitching.

If they’re like me (and first of all, congrats!) then cash-haters will buy even more stuff to get over the minimum.

bfj wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:43 am

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:40 am

bfj wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:29 amThen the merchant should have credit card minimum purchase requirements.

I don't think costing themselves a sale altogether is "smart business".

I agree, so take my credit card and stop bitching.

No one's bitching. Just saying if you know it's costing your cherished local business 3 or 4 percent for you to buy your $4 cup of coffee, why not carry $5 with you to make sure it's not coming out of their hide. They're not asking you to do it, but if you know and don't care then don't be pissed off when it gets replaced by a Starbucks eventually.

99% of my cash transactions are bars and weed shops.

brian wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:48 am

bfj wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:43 am

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:40 am

bfj wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:29 amThen the merchant should have credit card minimum purchase requirements.

I don't think costing themselves a sale altogether is "smart business".

I agree, so take my credit card and stop bitching.

No one's bitching. Just saying if you know it's costing your cherished local business 3 or 4 percent for you to buy your $4 cup of coffee, why not carry $5 with you to make sure it's not coming out of their hide. They're not asking you to do it, but if you know and don't care then don't be pissed off when it gets replaced by a Starbucks eventually.

I know some POS systems add the transaction fee on top if you swipe a card. Leaves the decision to the consumer with no effect on the business. No idea how widespread it is but a few of the coffee shops around here use it. (One has actually gone cashless).

Last time in the city I saw a couple cashless places but that seems to lead to a whole other set of issues.

They just opened a deli in our lobby that's cashless.

brian wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:48 am

bfj wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:43 am

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:40 am

bfj wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:29 amThen the merchant should have credit card minimum purchase requirements.

I don't think costing themselves a sale altogether is "smart business".

I agree, so take my credit card and stop bitching.

No one's bitching. Just saying if you know it's costing your cherished local business 3 or 4 percent for you to buy your $4 cup of coffee, why not carry $5 with you to make sure it's not coming out of their hide. They're not asking you to do it, but if you know and don't care then don't be pissed off when it gets replaced by a Starbucks eventually.

Brian wrote:If you can't carry $5 on you to try and make other people's lives a little easier then don't go out in public]

Actually, you are bitching that people like me go out with no regard to making your life easier. I know, I don't care (it's part of running a business) and I love Starbucks. Like I said, you don't get travel miles with cash.

Giff wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:19 pm They just opened a deli in our lobby that's cashless.

That seems like a recipe for failure.

I think the only thing I really carried cash for was for food trucks. But since all of the use the Square, I only have it for emergencies or inexplicable (in current terms) cash only places.

I thought the point of having VISA/Mastercard logos on cards that linked to a bank account was to rid everyone of using checks.

The last cash only purchase I made to avoid the surcharge was in getting a gun at a gun show since the dealer was going to charge me.

A_B wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:58 am

brian wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:21 am

Johnny Carwash wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:12 am

tennbengal wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:05 am Um. Is paying w/ debit card not ok now on orders under $10? I rarely carry cash.

I think early on in this thread (or maybe another one?) there was a big back-and-forth over whether this was acceptable. I admit this probably bothers me less than it did a few years ago.

Same. Also, for fuck's sake always make sure you have at least $20 on you in case of an emergency or some other critical situation where you need cash.

I can always spot the swampers without kids.

Heh.

At this point, I pay by credit card pretty much everywhere. Even small businesses. If it's for a small purchase, I am only costing that business pennies. And the money is going right into their account, and they don't have to fuck around with change. There is one local business who explicitly asks for cash first, and I try my best for them, but otherwise I'm just going to be an asshole about that.

Most places nowadays don't make you sign for small purchases. You can do credit or debit faster than it used to take.

And, Brian, my take on the kid thing is that folks who don't have kids are generally less tolerant of foibles of others.

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:26 pmIf it's for a small purchase, I am only costing that business pennies.

Its costing pennies on a transaction that nets dimes. Losing 2% or whatever gross is pretty rough big picture.

bfj wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:22 pm

Giff wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:19 pm They just opened a deli in our lobby that's cashless.

That seems like a recipe for failure.

Well, it makes more sense given that most of the building is one employer and they can pay with their badges. So it might just make it easier for them to stick with it.

That's less problematic. An outside business only accepting cards is, intentionally or not, isolating a segment of the population all too often isolated.

sancarlos wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:33 pm Most places nowadays don't make you sign for small purchases. You can do credit or debit faster than it used to take.

And, Brian, my take on the kid thing is that folks who don't have kids are generally less tolerant of foibles of others.

Maybe. I tend to look at it the other way though. If I can make things easier for everyone, including myself, I'm going to do it and I tend to not have patience for people who have the same ability and choose not to. That philosophy goes well beyond cash/credit card use to a wide variety of societal interactions.

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:52 pm That's less problematic. An outside business only accepting cards is, intentionally or not, isolating a segment of the population all too often isolated.

Yeah I imagine nearly 100% of their business will be tennants.

It’s the whole anytime I have cash I inveitable end up having to hand it to a smaller person in my household. But I get what sck is saying too!

brian wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:02 pm

sancarlos wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:33 pm Most places nowadays don't make you sign for small purchases. You can do credit or debit faster than it used to take.

And, Brian, my take on the kid thing is that folks who don't have kids are generally less tolerant of foibles of others.

Maybe. I tend to look at it the other way though. If I can make things easier for everyone, including myself, I'm going to do it and I tend to not have patience for people who have the same ability and choose not to. That philosophy goes well beyond cash/credit card use to a wide variety of societal interactions.

If people paying with a credit card tries your patience that much, you have way too little to worry about. Congratulations.

bfj wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:23 pm

brian wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:02 pm

sancarlos wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:33 pm Most places nowadays don't make you sign for small purchases. You can do credit or debit faster than it used to take.

And, Brian, my take on the kid thing is that folks who don't have kids are generally less tolerant of foibles of others.

Maybe. I tend to look at it the other way though. If I can make things easier for everyone, including myself, I'm going to do it and I tend to not have patience for people who have the same ability and choose not to. That philosophy goes well beyond cash/credit card use to a wide variety of societal interactions.

If people paying with a credit card tries your patience that much, you have way too little to worry about. Congratulations.

Only in certain circumstances (mostly defined upthread and mostly completely hypothetical if you read clearly).

Instead of taking around each other, let's talk to each other. Assume the following scenario:

-- You have a daily transaction where you know it's going to be a wait of about 6 or 7 people in front of you and behind you and you basically know exactly how much the transaction is going to cost every day (let's say $5).

-- Because you do this transaction every day at this merchant, you know that paying cash -- IN THIS SPECIFIC TRANSACTION/CIRCUMSTANCE -- is going to be about 30 or so seconds faster than using a credit card and that means everyone behind you is going to get to complete their transaction faster.

Is it really worth it to get the 5 cents cash back on your credit card than it is to just carry a few bucks in your wallet and pay cash?

In the above scenario there are probably people who have never been there before who don't know that their credit card system is fucked, so fine...that's OK. And I further acknowledge that especially these days, the number of places where the credit card transaction is a much bigger pain in the ass is getting fewer and fewer.

But I don't have patience for people who know they can make things easier for other people and willfully choose not to.

Here's another similar situation that seems to come up for me a lot that I don't necessarily struggle with, but where it would be easy for me to be a dick.

Stopping to fill up your car with gas and all of the sudden the station gets really busy to the point where people are waiting for open pumps. In addition to getting gas which you're paying for at the pump with your credit card, you need to run inside and get a soda or a coffee or whatever.

Do you finish pumping gas and run inside to get the soda and leave your car at the pump or do you get in the car and move it to a parking spot and then complete the transaction, even though that's kind of a pain in the ass?

I maintain if you do the former you're an asshole.

ETA: To be more clear about which is the asshole move IMO.

brian wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:32 pm I maintain if you do the latter you're an asshole.

I think you mean "the former"...

ImaginaryMan wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:38 pm

brian wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:32 pm I maintain if you do the latter you're an asshole.

I think you mean "the former"...

Was moving too fast. I will edit. Thanks

I will and have moved my car in those instances.

A_B wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:45 pm I will and have moved my car in those instances.

I'd like to think most people would, but I also don't think it's especially common.

Are you an asshole if you hold someone up or if you even take the risk?

I can always spot the Swampers that don't live in NJ.

I've watched enough people in lines (queues) in the US to know that very few are prepared if there is a decision to be made once they get to the front of said line.

rass wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:54 pm I can always spot the Swampers that don't live in NJ.

So, do you guys feel panicky if you are across the state line and your gas gauge goes below a quarter-tank?

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:49 pm Are you an asshole if you hold someone up or if you even take the risk?

Only if you knowingly do it (or are oblivious which is arguably worse). If 5 people show up at the same time while you're getting a coffee, it's not your fault.

sancarlos wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:57 pm

rass wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:54 pm I can always spot the Swampers that don't live in NJ.

So, do you guys feel panicky if you are across the state line and your gas gauge goes below a quarter-tank?

I grew up in DE, so no. I think my wife might.

My only issue with brian's scenario is there is an extremely good chance the 6-7 people behind me in line are paying with a card. I honestly don't see paying with a card as even 30 seconds longer than paying cash. Typically if I'm paying debit, the transaction is less than 30 seconds. I'm not convinced at all the time saved is measurable.

I love at Kroger I can swipe my card while they're ringing up the groceries. Then when they're done, all they have to do is print receipt and I'm done. That's definitely faster than paying cash.

rass wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:54 pm I can always spot the Swampers that don't live in NJ.

It's all the homeowners who enjoy owning a home, right?

Nobody’s mentioned “actually getting cash is a pain in the ass” yet. Especially if your bank is online only and finding a no-fee ATM sucks.

Ryan wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:42 pm Nobody’s mentioned “actually getting cash is a pain in the ass” yet. Especially if your bank is online only and finding a no-fee ATM sucks.

USAA gives me $15 a month back on ATM fees. Thank goodness. I think nearly all the military banks/credit union do something like this.

I can't imagine that any online bank wouldn't have some kind of ATM fee reversal policy like that (I have USAA also.)

A_B wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:45 pm I will and have moved my car in those instances.

Can't I start pumping, run in, buy my stuff and get out before the pump fills my car? That's what I would do. If the line in the store was full of assholes paying with credit cards, I would leave and then move my car up to a parking space after my tank is full. What animal would finish pumping and leave the car occupying a pump?

Leaving the pump while running? Fuck no! I don’t even like it when people get back in their cars when it is cold.

Also his week in Florida none of the handles had the little thing to catch and pump automAtically.

In response to scenario 1, if I am in that store every day making the same purchase, my .05/day will add up to something by the end of the year. Whether it is cash back or money for travel, I'd rather have the benefit of using the card. My other issue is that I tend to spend cash impulsively if I have it, so the $20 I have to take out of the ATM will not be used for coffee only and I'd have to take out more cash for more coffee. I am more selective when I have to use my credit card for things.