The Swamp

Started to post this in the ridiculous/FB thread, but it isn't ridiculous.

My wife's sister's sister-in-law's husband's father passed away unexpectedly this week. I don't know that I ever met him (second marriage for both the wife's sister's sister-in-law and the wife's sister's sister-in-law's husband so they had a small ceremony). The wife's sister's sister-in-law's husband posted a notice on FB, and included some photos of his dad. One of them might be one of the best pictures I've ever seen.

The family is originally from Germany, and even now the wife's sister's sister-in-law and the wife's sister's sister-in-law's husband (and the wife's sister's sister-in-law's husband's sister) are big into the German-beer-festival-oompa-dancing thing. The photo appears to be from the 60s or 70s. He's wearing full lederhosen, glasses and a fantastic mustache. He's stepping out of an bright red Porsche (356?), door still open, and in the background is an old (and long gone and bulldozed for a chain supermarket) Long Island dance-hall, lit up at night, covered in signage advertising dancing and an "October BEER FESTIVAL". Even reproduced on FB, you can tell it was a quality photo, because it's sharp and clear, and the flash to capture the subject and car in the foreground didn't wash out the building and lighting in the background. Just a perfect capture of a moment in time.

That's pretty cool. Is there a link to the image somewhere?

Does this work? Never used the attachments before.

Badass

So badass.

Everything about that is amazing.

govmentchedda wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:23 pm Everything about that is amazing.

We knew exactly what the picture was, and it still brought a smile to my face. That is seriously awesome.

What the fuck people. These album covers aren't the friggin mona lisa or some other universally recognized pieces of art.

Ryan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:32 am What the fuck people. These album covers aren't the friggin mona lisa or some other universally recognized pieces of art.

Craig Finn's solo polka album.

Giff wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:22 am

Ryan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:32 am What the fuck people. These album covers aren't the friggin mona lisa or some other universally recognized pieces of art.

Craig Finn's solo polka album.

Ha! (And, it really does look like an album cover.)

David Ogden Stiers, played Major Winchester on MASH

brian wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:55 pm David Ogden Stiers, played Major Winchester on MASH

Played Lane Meyer’s father, Al in Better off Dead.

Mmmm...boiled bacon.

Sir Roger Bannister, first man to run a four-minute mile.

brian wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:55 pm David Ogden Stiers, played Major Winchester on MASH

He went to high school with Roger Ebert in Peoria, IL.

brian wrote: ↑Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:28 am Sir Roger Bannister, first man to run a four-minute mile.

A timed one, anyway.

brian wrote: ↑Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:28 am Sir Roger Bannister, first man to run a four-minute mile.

If you are interested in Bannister, and the other guys (Australian John Landy and American Wes Santee) chasing this milestone, check out ‘The Perfect Mile’, by Neil Bascomb. Great book, and a fun insight to the thoughts about training techniques at the time.

Sammy Stewart....the throwing Swannanoan. Member of the 83 World Champ Orioles.
https://usat.ly/2FdgRsw

Major Charles Emerson Winchester III
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/03/entertai ... index.html

wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:08 am Major Charles Emerson Winchester III
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/03/entertai ... index.html

I always thought that Winchester's arrival on M*A*S*H directly corresponded to that show's slide into unfunny sitcom country. I think though that the season after Larry Linville left was also the season where the writing staff had massive turnover. That was about the time that they started shooting Hotlips with a gauzy, glamour filter on the lens. The last few years of that show were pretty poor.

Pruitt wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:26 am

wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:08 am Major Charles Emerson Winchester III
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/03/entertai ... index.html

I always thought that Winchester's arrival on M*A*S*H directly corresponded to that show's slide into unfunny sitcom country. I think though that the season after Larry Linville left was also the season where the writing staff had massive turnover. That was about the time that they started shooting Hotlips with a gauzy, glamour filter on the lens. The last few years of that show were pretty poor.

Agree completely.

Disagree vehemently. (As we've had this discussion before). It's somewhat of a different show as will happen when you have a completely new showrunner, but it's not an inferior show. I defy anyone shitting on the last five seasons to actually go back and watch the entire show from beginning to end and form an opinion after that.

brian wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:37 pm Disagree vehemently. (As we've had this discussion before). It's somewhat of a different show as will happen when you have a completely new showrunner, but it's not an inferior show. I defy anyone shitting on the last five seasons to actually go back and watch the entire show from beginning to end and form an opinion after that.

Dude, we're old. We lived it. MASH was on the family tv every week throughout its run. It's not like we don't have an informed opinion. I had that opinion when those shows were on their first run.

sancarlos wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:42 pm

brian wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:37 pm Disagree vehemently. (As we've had this discussion before). It's somewhat of a different show as will happen when you have a completely new showrunner, but it's not an inferior show. I defy anyone shitting on the last five seasons to actually go back and watch the entire show from beginning to end and form an opinion after that.

Dude, we're old. We lived it. MASH was on the family tv every week throughout its run. It's not like we don't have an informed opinion. I had that opinion when those shows were on their first run.

That was literally 40 years ago. You don't think it's possible you might think differently after four decades?

brian wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:45 pm

sancarlos wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:42 pm

brian wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:37 pm Disagree vehemently. (As we've had this discussion before). It's somewhat of a different show as will happen when you have a completely new showrunner, but it's not an inferior show. I defy anyone shitting on the last five seasons to actually go back and watch the entire show from beginning to end and form an opinion after that.

Dude, we're old. We lived it. MASH was on the family tv every week throughout its run. It's not like we don't have an informed opinion. I had that opinion when those shows were on their first run.

That was literally 40 years ago. You don't think it's possible you might think differently after four decades?

As my choices in the album pool should indicate, the answer is "no."

Pruitt wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:26 am

wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:08 am Major Charles Emerson Winchester III
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/03/entertai ... index.html

I always thought that Winchester's arrival on M*A*S*H directly corresponded to that show's slide into unfunny sitcom country. I think though that the season after Larry Linville left was also the season where the writing staff had massive turnover. That was about the time that they started shooting Hotlips with a gauzy, glamour filter on the lens. The last few years of that show were pretty poor.

It's really unfortunate McLean Stevenson left MASH when he did. That was the moment the cracks started to appear, IMHO.

I think Winchester was a good enough character, particularly because he was the right balance to Hawkeye and Trapper (BJ, as the case was). Frank Burns was too smarmy to be an effective counterbalance. It's unfortunate the character wasn't written in initially.

There was an interesting oral history/story in the Hollywood Reporter last week (came out the day Stiers died coincidentally enough) that talked about the reasons Stevenson left and basically it was NBC whispering in his ear he would be able to take over for Johnny Carson on The Tonight Show (he had guest hosted it quite a few times) and since it's obvious now that Carson wasn't going anywhere in 1975 that NBC might have been trying to do harm to MASH by convincing him to leave the show.

brian wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:33 pm There was an interesting oral history/story in the Hollywood Reporter last week (came out the day Stiers died coincidentally enough) that talked about the reasons Stevenson left and basically it was NBC whispering in his ear he would be able to take over for Johnny Carson on The Tonight Show (he had guest hosted it quite a few times) and since it's obvious now that Carson wasn't going anywhere in 1975 that NBC might have been trying to do harm to MASH by convincing him to leave the show.

MASH was CBS, right?

EnochRoot wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:48 pm

brian wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:33 pm There was an interesting oral history/story in the Hollywood Reporter last week (came out the day Stiers died coincidentally enough) that talked about the reasons Stevenson left and basically it was NBC whispering in his ear he would be able to take over for Johnny Carson on The Tonight Show (he had guest hosted it quite a few times) and since it's obvious now that Carson wasn't going anywhere in 1975 that NBC might have been trying to do harm to MASH by convincing him to leave the show.

MASH was CBS, right?

Correct. And of course there were only three networks back then so those kind of shenanigans were not uncommon.

Pruitt wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:26 am

wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:08 am Major Charles Emerson Winchester III
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/03/entertai ... index.html

I always thought that Winchester's arrival on M*A*S*H directly corresponded to that show's slide into unfunny sitcom country.

I enjoyed the Winchester character, just because he was a better foil for Hawkeye, and could hold his own. I thought that BJ was a big downgrade from Trapper, and that Potter was a HUGE downgrade from Col. Blake.

DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:55 pm

Pruitt wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:26 am

wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:08 am Major Charles Emerson Winchester III
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/03/entertai ... index.html

I always thought that Winchester's arrival on M*A*S*H directly corresponded to that show's slide into unfunny sitcom country.

I enjoyed the Winchester character, just because he was a better foil for Hawkeye, and could hold his own. I thought that BJ was a big downgrade from Trapper, and that Potter was a HUGE downgrade from Col. Blake.

i thought that Winchester was a downgrade from Frank Burns, and as Pruitt noted, the evolution of Hotlips was increasingly unfunny.

DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:55 pm

Pruitt wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:26 am

wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:08 am Major Charles Emerson Winchester III
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/03/entertai ... index.html

I always thought that Winchester's arrival on M*A*S*H directly corresponded to that show's slide into unfunny sitcom country.

I enjoyed the Winchester character, just because he was a better foil for Hawkeye, and could hold his own. I thought that BJ was a big downgrade from Trapper, and that Potter was a HUGE downgrade from Col. Blake.

I stand semi-corrected. I never liked Winchester, but BJ was the worst.

Pruitt wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:08 pm

DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:55 pm

Pruitt wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:26 am

wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:08 am Major Charles Emerson Winchester III
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/03/entertai ... index.html

I always thought that Winchester's arrival on M*A*S*H directly corresponded to that show's slide into unfunny sitcom country.

I enjoyed the Winchester character, just because he was a better foil for Hawkeye, and could hold his own. I thought that BJ was a big downgrade from Trapper, and that Potter was a HUGE downgrade from Col. Blake.

I stand semi-corrected. I never liked Winchester, but BJ was the worst.

I also didn't like when Klinger became a main character, instead of the side character who wore dresses.

DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:25 pm

Pruitt wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:08 pm

DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:55 pm

Pruitt wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:26 am

wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:08 am Major Charles Emerson Winchester III
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/03/entertai ... index.html

I always thought that Winchester's arrival on M*A*S*H directly corresponded to that show's slide into unfunny sitcom country.

I enjoyed the Winchester character, just because he was a better foil for Hawkeye, and could hold his own. I thought that BJ was a big downgrade from Trapper, and that Potter was a HUGE downgrade from Col. Blake.

I stand semi-corrected. I never liked Winchester, but BJ was the worst.

I also didn't like when Klinger became a main character, instead of the side character who wore dresses.

I think Brian makes a good point, though. I too was annoyed at the changes in the show back when it was on. But how much of that annoyance was because the show was changing, instead of because the show was objectively worse? Take Hot Lips - yes, when they changed her hair, it felt like the show was less funny. But her character also became more of a person and less of a joke. And at the time, there really weren't many female characters on TV in a role other than "the lead character's wife."

That's just one (good) example. She was basically a piece of the set dressing/token hot chick for the first three seasons and subject to the whims of Major Burns to define her as a character and as a woman, but after Burns left and the new showrunners took over she was allowed to have a real life and was no longer treated as just a sex object for the characters on the show and the show itself.

I've also seen here and other places people bemoaning that the show in later years seemed to take more political stances on a variety of issues, but if you can't take those kinds of chances on one of the biggest shows on TV in a tumultuous era on a show set during a brutal war, when can you really? And for the time, that was incredibly uncommon. The first 3 or 4 season under Gelbart the show was about 75 percent comedy, 25 percent pathos, but in later years hued closer to 50/50 which didn't make it a better (or worse) show necessarily, but definitely a somewhat different show.

I like the first few seasons as much as the next guy, but I'll never quit arguing that it was just as good after XYZ (Col. Blake leaving, Gelbart leaving, BJ leaving, Burns leaving, etc.) because it absolutely was.

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:06 pm Take Hot Lips - yes, when they changed her hair, it felt like the show was less funny. But her character also became more of a person and less of a joke. And at the time, there really weren't many female characters on TV in a role other than "the lead character's wife."

Well, the show was one of the most socially aware shows of its era, so one could applaud their desire to have a well-rounded female character. But, imho, they removed the comedy derived from one of the previously-funniest characters. If they wanted to do something socially responsible in that vein, they could've/should've introduced a new character to exemplify those characteristics, and left Hotlips as a comedic foil.

My issue with the show was that it stopped being funny.

I always watched M.A.S.H. in syndication, so it was out of order. I think due to that, I never really developed a huge preference for one cast member over another. To be honest, BJ and Trapper looked so much alike to me that I couldn't tell you which was which.

I did prefer Radar over Klinger.