NBA Draft/Offseason

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Fri May 16, 2014 7:36 am

Why should we care what a player's height is with his shoes off?

Andrew Wiggins probably just got the #1 pick with, well, a pic:

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Fri May 16, 2014 8:52 am

That is simply ridiculous.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri May 16, 2014 8:56 am

Someone probably told him there was poutine at the top hahahahahahaha he's canadian!

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed May 21, 2014 9:35 am

So sterling is a douche and gonna fight this all the way to the suprem court probably. I think the players should ask to be let out of their contracts if sterling still owns the team. DISPERSAL DRAFT.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Wed May 21, 2014 11:42 am

I kind of want him to. It's his money and he's going to die within the near future any damn way.

Juxtapose what he did compared to what Jim Irsay did...it isn't even in the same league. No pun intended.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Wed May 21, 2014 11:49 am

From a business sense, Sterling's is eons worse than Irsay's.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed May 21, 2014 11:51 am

If Irsay were an owner in a DEA league where agents couldn't move around for half a decade, that would be a pretty good comp.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Wed May 21, 2014 12:39 pm

Gunpowder wrote:From a business sense, Sterling's is eons worse than Irsay's.

Which is pure lunacy when you think about it.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed May 21, 2014 12:48 pm

I'd rather my boss take cocaine than hate my entire race of people as a general rule.

But no one hates good looking, dapper men, so I'm cool.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed May 21, 2014 2:03 pm

Add me to the list of people more tolerant of bad decisions than bad people too.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Wed May 21, 2014 2:10 pm

Johnnie wrote:
Gunpowder wrote:From a business sense, Sterling's is eons worse than Irsay's.
Which is pure lunacy when you think about it.

I don't see why that is lunacy. Irsay's drunken ramblings make the NFL look worse than his love of painkillers.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Wed May 21, 2014 2:17 pm

My only problem with Irsay is that if this was a player he'd have been suspended. Irsay was in the Colt's war room on draft day.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed May 21, 2014 2:25 pm

Young black dudes get punished more severely than rich white dudes for the same offense all the time. It would be more weird if the NFL actually played fair.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Wed May 21, 2014 2:26 pm

Maybe I'm fucking crazy, but the private thoughts of an 80 year old who you already knew was a racist is much lower on the totem pole of seriousness than a pill popping douchebag swerving his car around the city high as a fucking kite.

At least Sterling wasn't exhibiting the behavior of someone who had the potential to kill somebody.

But hey! Thoughts!

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Wed May 21, 2014 2:44 pm

Johnnie wrote:Maybe I'm fucking crazy, but the private thoughts of an 80 year old who you already knew was a racist is much lower on the totem pole of seriousness than a pill popping douchebag swerving his car around the city high as a fucking kite.

At least Sterling wasn't exhibiting the behavior of someone who had the potential to kill somebody.

But hey! Thoughts!

I think you're missing the "from a business sense" part of it

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Wed May 21, 2014 3:26 pm

Brontoburglar wrote:
Johnnie wrote:Maybe I'm fucking crazy, but the private thoughts of an 80 year old who you already knew was a racist is much lower on the totem pole of seriousness than a pill popping douchebag swerving his car around the city high as a fucking kite.

At least Sterling wasn't exhibiting the behavior of someone who had the potential to kill somebody.

But hey! Thoughts!
I think you're missing the "from a business sense" part of it

Exactly. The fact that every major Clippers corporate sponsor immediately pulled their sponsorships is a big deal from a business perspective. Plus, there has been a lot of talk of the players taking major actions if Sterling wasn't banned for life. Supposedly the Warriors were prepared to walk off the court and refuse to play Game 5 of their series against the Clippers. Similarly there was (and still is, pending a change of ownership) talk that all of the current Clippers players would refuse to play for the team next year and will instead demand to be free agents. Either one of those scenarios would be a PR disaster for the league.

It's also disingenuous to claim that Sterling's racism has only manifested via his "private thoughts." He's (1) paid out millions of dollars to settle multiple housing discrimination lawsuits, (2) been sued by Elgin Baylor for racial discrimination, and (3) brought women into the team locker room to ogle his players' "beautiful black bodies." Adam Silver may have claimed that Sterling's punishment was not based on his past conduct -- which was probably just a way of covering for David Stern -- but the league had to have considered all of that history in deciding how to act.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Wed May 21, 2014 3:27 pm

Well you must have missed the part where LeBron threatened to stop buying old Jerome Pathon jerseys if Irsay isn't thrown out of the NFL

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Wed May 21, 2014 5:36 pm

mister d wrote:Young black dudes get punished more severely than rich white dudes for the same offense all the time. It would be more weird if the NFL actually played fair.

Ryan Clark speaks his mind.

NFL Safety Ryan Clark wrote:"Right now, if Jim Irsay is going to represent this league, represent the Indianapolis Colts, going to be on TV at the owners meetings, trying to bring a Super Bowl to Indianapolis after what he's done? It shows the hypocrisy of the NFL and also Roger Goodell in the way that he deals with players and the way he deals for the people he works for," Clark said on ESPN's "First Take."

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Wed May 21, 2014 11:28 pm

Brontoburglar wrote:I think you're missing the "from a business sense" part of it

No I get that. And it's still pure fucking lunacy.

If previous actions of this man weren't enough in the 30 years of him owning the team to get him out of the league, than his current thoughts mean fuckall.

Seriously. This is how we get indignant and self righteous. Someone said mean words. Take his franchise away. Never mind that people still worked for him in the NBA and sponsors were still on his side until words changed everything.

They're all fucking hypocrites. The money was great until a leaked personal conversation got out. As Kareem intimated, didn't we just get all up in arms because of the findings of the NSA yet we're condemning someone because this conversion was leaked and brought to light in a shady fashion?

And trust me, Sterling is the highest order of scumbag. People like him should never be where they are. He has too much controlling power over lots of things. He can directly affect people's lives. I am glad he gets dragged through the mud like this. But it seems flimsy and indignant on behalf of everyone for this to be a shocker to people.

And then to see a drug addict owner in another league getting pulled over doing something extremely dangerous and nary a peep about him. He should lose his fucking team. That guy. But he hasn't even been formally charged yet.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Thu May 22, 2014 7:38 am

Nobody (basically) remembered his previous actions because they were summarized in court transcripts in the 90s. Now, in the internet age, where everybody follows every NBA team, we have tangible audio evidence of him not wanting black people to watch his NBA team or associate with him.

I don't care how private the thoughts were, they are out in public now for everybody to hear and confirm what they may have previously thought about Sterling. I for one had never heard of the previous settlements. Or the hearsay from employees. Or the other stuff that wasn't a recording of Sterling speaking against black people going to his stadium to watch a sport that puts the N in NBA.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Thu May 22, 2014 7:39 am

"Hey black people and players, the thoughts were private. You can all relax now and pretend that never happened".

I can do condescending sarcasm, too

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu May 22, 2014 7:45 am

Also, once thoughts are vocalized, they become words.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu May 22, 2014 11:43 am

Joe K wrote:It's also disingenuous to claim that Sterling's racism has only manifested via his "private thoughts." He's (1) paid out millions of dollars to settle multiple housing discrimination lawsuits, (2) been sued by Elgin Baylor for racial discrimination, and (3) brought women into the team locker room to ogle his players' "beautiful black bodies."

This is what disgusts me about the whole damn situation.

Despite these facts, the Clipper players were perfectly willing to play for a Sterling owned team. Until this tape.

The Warriors players were perfectly willing to play playoff games. Until this tape. Doc Rivers could collect a paycheck--but somehow, magically, this tape turned that circumstance upside down. Same for the sponsors, the other owners, the Association.

Crowd-following, groupthink suffering hypocrites one and all. A pox on every damn one, for pretending this audiotape somehow is the racist straw. A fucking goddamn joke.

And I'm supposed to accept/swallow that now Sterling is banned, it is cool (for me to continue spending my money and attention on the association.) I'll just continue doing what I do, despite this circus; I'll pass on the hypocrisy and the feelgood politically correct 'solution'. Because that shit is worse to me than the quiet tolerance of the racist scumbag fuck for decades.

Johnnie, your thoughts don't fit the comfortable narrative. Don't worry; you get used to it. At least I did. It beats the hell thinking the same thing as the crowd.

Post by **Shirley** » Thu May 22, 2014 11:59 am

Well, in defense of the players - those guys most certainly did NOT know. I bet most of them have no idea who Elgin Baylor is.

I vaguely remembered Sterling's racist history, but I bundled most of that up with his long-deserved reputation as a lousy owner who cut every corner he could. I just assumed that what other attributed to racism could more accurately be attributed to him being a callous miser.

That conversation changed that possibility. He very clearly SAID he was a racist. That's a whole lot different than folks accusing him of taking racist actions. Granted, those actions are WAY WORSE than any words he said to his girlfriend, but the fact that he said those things on tape immediately gave credibility to all of those past accusations of actual racist acts.

I don't really see how it matters at all how the tape came to be public. We're not talking about a criminal case here with strict evidence-collecting guidelines.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu May 22, 2014 12:02 pm

So continuance is better than correction?

(That was for Howard, not Dave.)

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu May 22, 2014 12:07 pm

Yeah, because that is exactly what I wrote.

Let me repeat for the slower readers.

Feel good groupthink politically correct backslapping makes me fucking sick. Y'all can knock yourselves out. But it don't do shit to stop racism.

How bout continuing by evicting the other racist scumbag NBA owners? Ah, Sterling is clearly the only one, and became one on one day three weeks ago. Lets pretend all together.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu May 22, 2014 12:14 pm

Yeah, I'm still reading really slowly. Which other owners are you referring to.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Thu May 22, 2014 12:18 pm

Once again, most people weren't familiar with the previous stuff. Now, it's 2014. Everybody knows everything, and we have an audio tape to confirm everything. It's like evidence has been found. The smoking gun. That largest settlement stuff - yeah, this basically proves that it's all true and he hasn't learned anything.

Hey LeBron, remember reading about Donald Sterling's lawsuit when you were 13? Oh, well - here he is saying he doesn't want you in his arena.

Maybe it's a failure of the media 15 years ago. But - this is now and it has a much wider impact than Jim Irsay taking drugs like probably 95% of the NFL audience has at some point.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Thu May 22, 2014 12:19 pm

howard wrote:Yeah, because that is exactly what I wrote.

Let me repeat for the slower readers.

Feel good groupthink politically correct backslapping makes me fucking sick. Y'all can knock yourselves out. But it don't do shit to stop racism.

How bout continuing by evicting the other racist scumbag NBA owners? Ah, Sterling is clearly the only one, and became one on one day three weeks ago. Lets pretend all together.

Ok, let's evict all of them. Which ones? And what evidence? I'm not being sarcastic, I just don't know.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Thu May 22, 2014 12:21 pm

This isn't feelgood groupthink, this is what is essentially a franchisee causing potential boycotts for the rest of the chain.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Thu May 22, 2014 12:22 pm

The Emancipation Proclamation didn't make up for 150+ years of slavery. It helped going forward.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Thu May 22, 2014 12:23 pm

I actually think that right now, most groupthink is "well that was reprehensible what he did but this was an illegal recording and we're just going to take private property for thoughts?". At least that's what I glean on the internet and in daily life with those who care (and I do hang with largely right-leaning folk), and I think it's completely missing the point.

No matter how this got out, it's out. And it's not going back. And it could hurt the bottom line.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu May 22, 2014 12:27 pm

I'm not referring to any owner. I'm playing the odds. 30-some white male billionaires, what are the odds they are all peaches wrt racism? You like stats as a path to truth.

In any event, one admitted it.

Mark Cuban: 'I'm bigoted in a lot of different ways'

Heh. For all the things he is, Cubes is not much of a hypocrite. I've always dug this dude.

ETA: Geez, the point I made is evicting this owner is an exercise in hypocrisy and bullshit. A broader witch hunt based on popular groupthink is the opposite. Pretending this issue popped up out of nowhere with this tape, ignoring the hypocrisy and lies, not a racial litmus test (although wouldn't surprise me.)

The fellow owners who think the same way as Sterling (if they exist), who will cast a vote to expel him, is further hilarity.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu May 22, 2014 12:28 pm

Gunpowder wrote:And it could hurt the bottom line.

This. Alpha and Omega. Pretending any higher purpose or progress, pretending any greater good is being done sickens and disgusts me.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu May 22, 2014 12:30 pm

AB_skin_test wrote:The Emancipation Proclamation didn't make up for 150+ years of slavery. It helped going forward.

This (banning Sterling) is not helping going forward.

Pretending that it is sickens me. Pretending because it feels like going forward, ignoring the facts in the process, is bullshit and I argue retards the going forward. Pretending usually (but not always) has a retardant effect.

Like I said, if such thoughts comfort you, knock yourself out. I've seen this act too many times before from corporate and political America, to buy into the feel-good remedies without questioning or going against the groupthink.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu May 22, 2014 12:34 pm

Sooo ... what's the league response you'd be happy with?

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Thu May 22, 2014 12:37 pm

It's hard to fathom how it doesn't, in some small way at least, help the league in the long run when it comes to race relations. More than any league, the NBA seems to be on the right side of the argument in terms of how African Americans are viewed.

NHL? Ha.

NFL? He's a mobile QB because he's black, and people are still overly aware of when a team has a black QB.

MLB: Hardly any black kids grow up playing baseball.

I don't think it can be understated either that Stern was complicit in some of this stuff and Silver was handed an opportunity to do something drastic and has done so.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu May 22, 2014 12:44 pm

mister d wrote:Sooo ... what's the league response you'd be happy with?

It ain't the Association response I am talking about. It is the ignorant, bullshit, delusional PC public response (fueled by the media and the Association deft PR touch) that disgusts and sickens me. But, I'm kinda used to that by now. Despite the volume, this is a pretty mild symptom, all in all.

I like Silver's response. A lot. Hell, I'll go Happy. I'll even go with the Association's response as being progress (that's for you, AB).

I'm not talking about the league. I'm talking about the sheep.

ETA:

howard wrote:This (banning Sterling) is not helping going forward.

I meant overall social progress. Again, I like what Silver and the league did. I would've like it more ten years ago, or twenty years ago, but I recognize Sterling was not costing them money then. He is now. Any social progress credited to the Association is a side effect--a positive side effect, but not what they are going for. Despite the pretty PR rhetoric.

The public consumption of this whole hypocritical mess is not progress. It is regress. In amount as to negate the progress of the Association's response.

I'm not asking the league to do more or different. I'm asking society to either think and process this with logic, not feelings and groupthink, or alternately to shut the fuck up. Yeah, I'm holding my breath for either of those two processes.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu May 22, 2014 1:08 pm

I guess I'm not getting who the PC sheep are. If the left end are the people who think he should be out because that's their honest belief and the right end are the people who don't think he should be out, the sheep are the middle I imagine. But that's ... who? People who think he's not wrong but want to be on the right side? People who don't think he's wrong except from a business standpoint? I guess that's what I don't fully understand here.

Post by **Shirley** » Thu May 22, 2014 2:07 pm

I think I understand Howard's point better now. It sounds like he's (rightfully) disgusted at yet another media outrage-off. I'm DISGUSTED! Well, I'm even MORE DISGUSTED!!

The problem is that the media has been crying wolf over so many issues over the years, that this just becomes yet another piece of monetizable, outrage-fueling news chunk. The fact that this seems fairly legit - this old racist bastard deserves what's coming to him - is somewhat irrelevant. The next celebrity who gets arrested or says something else stupid will push this story to the backburner - all of the money fully squeezed out of it.

Or maybe that's not Howard's point, but it is an aspect of this story that bothers me. The media are the ones who should be the least surprised, because unlike NBA fans or players, their job IS to already know who Sterling is and how he does business. Same for the league office - David Stern should be getting killed over this, but he seems to mostly be escaping criticism.