The Walking Dead Thread Walks Again

[BSF21]

Fun fact: that kid was the voice of Phineas from Phineas and Ferb.

We have different ideas of fun.

For a kids show, Phineas and Ferb is fucking brilliant. So many great jokes for the grown-ups.

[Bensell]

Last night's episode was completely fucked up. Just madness all around...

[howard]

Last night's episode was completely fucked up. Just madness all around...

"Honey, you're weak!"

[ZMan]

Yeah, I was surprised that Carol got so under my skin. I mean, I get that she's practical and realistic, but two terse sentences to a girl that just lost her father, and is clearly losing her grip on reality, is NOT going to turn the tide.

I love the idea of an independent agent operating around the prison. But I'm trying hard to figure out motivation. While killing and burning the sick people sort of makes sense (in a non-humane, overly logical way maybe) the rat feedings is like the exact opposite. I'm sure I'm not alone in initially thinking it was the little girl doing the feeding. My gut is now telling me it's the alky dude, but only because he's the only new character we've seen that could do it.

[Steve of phpBB]

Those guys still have automatic weapons and ammunition, right? I understand the idea of saving them for emergencies, but I think a concentrated zombie attack that pushes the fence over counts as one of those.

Last night's episode struck me as one of the bleakest and most depressing yet. Not because anyone significant died, or even from any of the typically horrific scenes, but because the episode, to me, really drove home how death and misery are everpresent in their world.

[rass]

I love the idea of an independent agent operating around the prison. But I'm trying hard to figure out motivation. While killing and burning the sick people sort of makes sense (in a non-humane, overly logical way maybe) the rat feedings is like the exact opposite. I'm sure I'm not alone in initially thinking it was the little girl doing the feeding. My gut is now telling me it's the alky dude, but only because he's the only new character we've seen that could do it.

I'm thinking the person feeding the rats to the walkers (note Glenn is doing a shitty job keeping watch if he can't see someone walking around the yard in the middle of the night with a flashlight) and the person who burned Tyrese's girl and the other potentially sick dude might be different people. If your goal is to cause chaos (or worse) in the prison, why go to the trouble (and risk, assuming the person is working alone and had to drag two bodies outside) of killing the possibly sick people since the effects of the flu would seem to work in your favor anyway. Just to make things interesting, I'm guessing Tyrese's sister killed his girlfriend and the other guy (not because she is "bad", but to protect the group).

I like this turn for Carol. It makes perfect sense for her character at least, given what happened to her.

Loved the shot of the walker being pressed through the fence like play-doh.

[Johnnie]

At some point a bunch of dead walker bodies should be piled up next to the fence, right? I mean so many have been stabbed in the face already but yet the mass continues to will the fence down.

Whatever though. I'm just glad it was better than the first episode. The mayhem and carnage was excellent. But then again...that's really all this show has to provide in order to pull the numbers its doing.

[Steve of phpBB]

At some point a bunch of dead walker bodies should be piled up next to the fence, right? I mean so many have been stabbed in the face already but yet the mass continues to will the fence down.

Good point. And at some point, the pile will be high enough that the walkers can just climb over the wall.

I think they need to commit a day to some yard work. First with the machine guns to kill the pests, then with the gasoline.

[rass]

That reminds me, shouldn't they try to be a little more frugal with the gas? Did Rick really need an accelerant to set a bunch of wood on fire?

[DSafetyGuy]

He picked alky black guy. I won this round!

Yeah, but the odds were in your friend's favor. You know the show can't sustain two black guys.

The notable exception, in this case, is "The Wire Corollary", which states that multiple African-American characters can be on a cable television series provided they were widely-liked on "The Wire."

Watched both episodes last night. My biggest question about the first episode was how did all of those walkers get up on the roof of the store? Were they regular people hiding from walkers, then walkers got on the roof and did their thing or did one die and become a walker? No stairs were ever shown going up there, just camera pan up to show walkers on the roof.

Just more of the same from this show. So many issues starting at the network level and filtering down, down, down.

[howard]

My biggest question about the first episode was how did all of those walkers get up on the roof of the store? Were they regular people hiding from walkers, then walkers got on the roof and did their thing or did one die and become a walker?

Helicopter. Either people were up there to be rescued by the helicopter, one or two of them were badly injured/sick and died and turned, or the chopper crew landed for some other purpose, the noise then attracting walkers. Lots of possibilities.

Most roofs of most big buildings have stairway access, even if not seen. We've already seen walkers go up stairs to the roof, to go after Merle.

Judging by the teaser for next week that they showed on Talking Dead, mass effect of thousands of walkers is also a reasonable explanation to many access problems.

Wrt dead walkers piling up at the fence, I assumed they periodically clear the (unreanimated) corpses. Another chore Tyreese doesn't like, no doubt.

[DSafetyGuy]

My biggest question about the first episode was how did all of those walkers get up on the roof of the store? Were they regular people hiding from walkers, then walkers got on the roof and did their thing or did one die and become a walker?

Helicopter. Either people were up there to be rescued by the helicopter, one or two of them were badly injured/sick and died and turned, or the chopper crew landed for some other purpose, the noise then attracting walkers. Lots of possibilities.

Most roofs of most big buildings have stairway access, even if not seen. We've already seen walkers go up stairs to the roof, to go after Merle.

But, this gets back to one of my biggest issues with the show. People and things are often used as plot devices without any explanation. If you want to show a "walker attack from above", make sure there is a rational explanation for it within the realm of the show. There are many options, the simplest of which would have been to show the staircase leading up there when revealing the zombies on the roof. If you're going to have this spiffy crane shot going from the front door to the roof as the group enters the store, you can certainly shoot it in a way that shows the staircase. (If the stairs are inside, have the camera take the point of view of whoever is going in first (or pass by the person going in first), then accelerate it, speeding through the store to and up the staircase, which then reveals walkers.) There's been enough jumps in logic on the show (and I know I've complained about them more than enough) that I want things shown to be plausible in the show's world.

[howard]

Ok, I get what you're saying now. All I can say is Homeland is worse.

[rass]

As a fan of your work, I have to say I think you're reaching on this one DSG.

[DSafetyGuy]

As a fan of your work, I have to say I think you're reaching on this one DSG.

First, I appreciate your fandom. First drink is on me at the culmination of my next "DSafetyGuy Takes Manhattan" thread.

My issue primarily comes from how this show makes things convenient for plot/shock instead of dotting the i's and crossing the t's. Walkers moan and groan, shuffling through weeds and leaves in the forest... until one can jump out and surprise a person on his/her own. Walkers can smell humans... until Andrea, who is hiding from the Governor in an abandoned industrial building, lets them out of a stairwell and hides just inches away. This one, of course, happened right after the Governor found her walking through a field, trying to escape from her. She, of course, was walking through this field in plain sight when she knew she was being chased and could have used the forests around this field for cover.

These are just a few shortcuts they take.

[Jerloma]

I love the idea of an independent agent operating around the prison. But I'm trying hard to figure out motivation. While killing and burning the sick people sort of makes sense (in a non-humane, overly logical way maybe) the rat feedings is like the exact opposite. I'm sure I'm not alone in initially thinking it was the little girl doing the feeding. My gut is now telling me it's the alky dude, but only because he's the only new character we've seen that could do it.

I'm thinking the person feeding the rats to the walkers (note Glenn is doing a shitty job keeping watch if he can't see someone walking around the yard in the middle of the night with a flashlight) and the person who burned Tyrese's girl and the other potentially sick dude might be different people. If your goal is to cause chaos (or worse) in the prison, why go to the trouble (and risk, assuming the person is working alone and had to drag two bodies outside) of killing the possibly sick people since the effects of the flu would seem to work in your favor anyway. Just to make things interesting, I'm guessing Tyrese's sister killed his girlfriend and the other guy (not because she is "bad", but to protect the group).

Any chance at all it could be the Guv'nah?

[rass]

As a fan of your work, I have to say I think you're reaching on this one DSG.

First, I appreciate your fandom. First drink is on me at the culmination of my next "DSafetyGuy Takes Manhattan" thread.

My issue primarily comes from how this show makes things convenient for plot/shock instead of dotting the i's and crossing the t's. Walkers moan and groan, shuffling through weeds and leaves in the forest... until one can jump out and surprise a person on his/her own. Walkers can smell humans... until Andrea, who is hiding from the Governor in an abandoned industrial building, lets them out of a stairwell and hides just inches away. This one, of course, happened right after the Governor found her walking through a field, trying to escape from her. She, of course, was walking through this field in plain sight when she knew she was being chased and could have used the forests around this field for cover.

These are just a few shortcuts they take.

As long as it isn't Super Bowl week, I'll take it.

There have been definite forced situations, but I didn't think this one was so bad. If they have to show roof access, then they have to also show that the entry way is now blocked, to explain why the walkers never came down into the store. They had established that the place was being used as some sort of camp or base, and it's certainly not implausible (or better put, I think it is expected) that a building would have roof access, so it could follow that the roof was being used as a chopper landing pad. Someone turned walker on the roof, or on the chopper, then crash, boom. No need to waste story time explaining what happened, and a year or two later the roof collapses and gives us a cool action scene. Yay!

Any chance at all it could be the Guv'nah?

It was done from the inside, so probably not literally him. Could be someone working for him. Probably someone working for him.

[BSF21]

....

Any chance at all it could be the Guv'nah?

It was done from the inside, so probably not literally him. Could be someone working for him. Probably someone working for him.

They said that this was 6-8 months after the guv'nah battle what with the farm and everything. Put me in the "not associated with Gov" camp.

[DSafetyGuy]

As long as it isn't Super Bowl week, I'll take it.

I'll be at a hotel TBD in northern NJ for almost four weeks. I don't think I'm setting foot in NYC at any point in time, either.

Any chance at all it could be the Guv'nah?

It was done from the inside, so probably not literally him. Could be someone working for him. Probably someone working for him.

I thought about that, too, especially since they showed the Governor in the reset before the show started, but eventually wrote that off as reminding people they had won their safety in their battle with him. I find it more likely that it would be someone working for the Governor than him doing it himself simply because he seemed a little too unhinged to do something so relatively calm as break into the prison, hide out, then feed rats to the walkers to keep them close at hand. Feeding them rats seems like something one of the kids would do because they are curious about the walkers.

Regarding the burning of the (potentially) sick, I would guess that's done by someone with the group doing it out of paranoia. I would think the Governor (or an agent of the Governor) would prefer that they be sick, die, and turn into walkers for the havoc they would cause inside the prison, especially since it had just happened and was an absolute mess.

[howard]

Still trying to get my head around the Super Bowl in North Jersey. It'll be good to catch up with you. (Should I deign to set foot in Jersey.)

[Jerloma]

I mean if someone inside were communicating with the governor, wouldn't it have to be via personal contact?

[DSafetyGuy]

Still trying to get my head around the Super Bowl in North Jersey. It'll be good to catch up with you. (Should I deign to set foot in Jersey.)

Pending on where we are staying and if I get a weekend day or two off, I may make it into the city. That said, getting a day off is something we usually find out around two hours before we leave the day before.

I will be driving down, though, so there is certainly some flexibility about where to meet. Plenty of time to figure it all out.

[howard]

With the bowl on my doorstep, I'll probably go over and check out the hoopla anyway during the week. (Not game day.) Or, maybe this will be like one of those bowls (SF/Palo Alto, Detroit/Pontiac) where all the hoopla was in the big city, while the game was in the suburbs. Shit, those were the early 80s; maybe I am due to go to a bowl.

[DSafetyGuy]

With the bowl on my doorstep, I'll probably go over and check out the hoopla anyway during the week. (Not game day.) Or, maybe this will be like one of those bowls (SF/Palo Alto, Detroit/Pontiac) where all the hoopla was in the big city, while the game was in the suburbs. Shit, those were the early 80s; maybe I am due to go to a bowl.

My advice, as always, is to stay the fuck away, for your own good.

[Shirley]

Just watched it. I have some of the same logistical problems as DSG. I hate how they waste bullets and other critical resources (like gas). Maggie didn't need to put a bullet in that walker that was stuck on the sticks. Rick certainly didn't need to gas the pile of wood.

Also, with the fence, two things. First, if they are bunching up at one spot, why not just use the old trick from last season of going to another section and screaming and yelling. Walkers follow people. Easy peasy.

Second, why not devote 30-60 minutes EVERY DAY to clearing walkers off the fence? It's not like it's particularly hard work. The hard part would just be disposing of the piles of bodies you'd create. I think you'd want to dig out a reusable fire pit that you'd keep constantly smoldering with the bodies of walkers. Eventually, they should thin out, as the prison was out in the middle of nowhere.

Lastly, there's no way in HELL that I'm sleeping in an unlocked room. No way. At the very least, I'd want a closed door.

I still like the show, but it really seems like they could easily make it better by cleaning up the sloppy plot points.

[rass]

Rick certainly didn't need to gas the pile of wood.

Yeah. I was going to mention that bugged me.

Also, with the fence, two things. First, if they are bunching up at one spot, why not just use the old trick from last season of going to another section and screaming and yelling. Walkers follow people. Easy peasy.

I had the same thought, but I let it go because the scene with the pigs was so great (and it made some sense because Rick was likely going to have to get rid of the pigs anyway).

Second, why not devote 30-60 minutes EVERY DAY to clearing walkers off the fence? It's not like it's particularly hard work. The hard part would just be disposing of the piles of bodies you'd create. I think you'd want to dig out a reusable fire pit that you'd keep constantly smoldering with the bodies of walkers. Eventually, they should thin out, as the prison was out in the middle of nowhere.

I thought they showed that "crowbar-through-the-chain-link-fence-into-brains" duty was an ongoing chore in the first episode (Tyrese's lady friend was doing it, and he begged off to go on the supply run). Though they sort of let that drop in the latest episode.

Lastly, there's no way in HELL that I'm sleeping in an unlocked room. No way. At the very least, I'd want a closed door.

Yes. I wonder if they actually have the ability to lock and unlock individual cells in the main blocks? Everything I know about prison I got from movies and TV, and usually someone hits a button, a buzzer goes off and the door pops open. I would assume that requires electricity? I know they've locked off other portions of the prison from where they were staying in the past, but have they ever locked someone in a cell? Shit, maybe Merle?

[Shirley]

One dude, the guy who sleep walked, was in a closed cell. Remember, he was the other one who died of the sickness without any bites. Nobody was able to get in to him - or him out.

I have to think that prison doors would have to have some sort of manual override in the case of power loss. They couldn't lock either open or closed without some way of opening/closing them.

Oh well. I'm pretty sure none of this stuff bothered me as much before I started watching Breaking Bad. That show made doing it right look so easy.

BTW, the pig sacrifice really bugged me until I remembered that they suspected the illness may have come from them. Because honestly, just Rick in the back of the truck should have been enough to attract the walkers. No need to feed them little piggies.

[Steve of phpBB]

One dude, the guy who sleep walked, was in a closed cell. Remember, he was the other one who died of the sickness without any bites. Nobody was able to get in to him - or him out.

I have to think that prison doors would have to have some sort of manual override in the case of power loss. They couldn't lock either open or closed without some way of opening/closing them.

Oh well. I'm pretty sure none of this stuff bothered me as much before I started watching Breaking Bad. That show made doing it right look so easy.

BTW, the pig sacrifice really bugged me until I remembered that they suspected the illness may have come from them. Because honestly, just Rick in the back of the truck should have been enough to attract the walkers. No need to feed them little piggies.

The pig thing was one plot event that doesn't bother me. I don't know if Rick by himself would be enough to draw a whole crowd of walker away, when they can smell the dozens of live humans inside the prison yard. I think that if you want to draw a whole lotta walkers away fast, you need live blood to do it. I guess they couldn't use Beth because she's bringing up the little baby, so they had to use the pigs instead.

[rass]

Stupid Carol.

[howard]

I had Hershel in my pool.

Three Negroes in the car. No, nothing bad was gonna happen.

A white cracker cop beating down a Negro. Another shocker (come on, for the sake of completeness have to make that joke.)

But, yeah, stupid fucking Carol.

[ZMan]

I wouldn't call Carols move stupid, although I certainly wouldn't go telling Tyreese the truth. She obviously thought by killing the two sick people and burning the bodies she could stop the sickness before it spread. I think her little breakdown when she knocked over the water barrel, was due to her realizing it was meaningless in the end. Plus, let's add the pressure of everyone expecting her to be the caregiver. The father asking her to take care of the daughters, Tyreese asking her to care for Claire(?). She's become the go-to for this, and she's only about 1 year out from losing her own daughter.

Believe it or not, I think dopey Jake Osbourne had the best comment about it on The Talking Dead aftershow. Almost every character has gone through their "logic uber alles" stage in dealing with the apocalypse. Carol's going through hers now.

[rass]

She obviously thought by killing the two sick people and burning the bodies she could stop the sickness before it spread.

Yes, obviously, but there couldn't have been too long a window between Karen and Dave showing symptoms and everyone else. I think she was stupid because her timing sucked, and because she thought it might actually work.

[DSafetyGuy]

At least the scenes from the next episode ensured everyone knew Daryl and the "three Negroes" made it back from their trip okay even though they were fifty (? - so much damn quiet talking in this episode) miles away at the veterinary school.

[rass]

At least the scenes from the next episode ensured everyone knew Daryl and the "three Negroes" made it back from their trip okay even though they were fifty (? - so much damn quiet talking in this episode) miles away at the veterinary school.

Yeah, it was fifty miles. Good thing, too. That was a shit load of walkers.

[Jerloma]

I think you need to kill Tyrese. That negro is out of control.

[bfj]

I wouldn't call Carols move stupid, although I certainly wouldn't go telling Tyreese the truth. She obviously thought by killing the two sick people and burning the bodies she could stop the sickness before it spread. I think her little breakdown when she knocked over the water barrel, was due to her realizing it was meaningless in the end. Plus, let's add the pressure of everyone expecting her to be the caregiver. The father asking her to take care of the daughters, Tyreese asking her to care for Claire(?).

Sasha is his sister's name.

[howard]

And it is Zombie Time again

[Johnnie]

I can't see Carol having the strength to drag those bodies out there. It's a good plot point for the show, but initially I had to get past that.

And it appears you need a 4 wheel drive vehicle during the Zombie Apocalypse. Or else all those bodies will just pile up and up and up and your car gets stuck! If only they piled on the fence that quickly!

Then that entire ZOMBIE NATION they faced. Not so good times for them. But good times for the rest of us. Can't wait to see how that plays out.

[rass]

-How did leg tattoo girl survive all this time and get taken out by two walkers in a wide open yard in the day light?

-Assuming that was the vet school we saw beyond the walker herd last episode, where did the walker herd go by the time they go there this episode? They don't move too fast, and don't have any place to be. I guess they snuck up behind them?

-What was on the radio?

-Maybe my TV was too dark, but it wasn't obvious the group in the school was infected with the flu (I guess they went there for medicine too, and died there?) until after the characters mentioned it.

That being said, I think I liked the Rick/Carol stuff. If anything, I'm surprised she let him do that to her, though I guess a fight there would have left one of them (her, given Rick is the headliner) dead. I suppose that means we'll see her again?

I also loved Daryl's alpha male headbutt move. Carol should have tried that shit on Rick.

[Jerloma]

That episode sucked.