NCAA meltdown thread

testuser2 · Post by **testuser2** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:22 am

Sabo wrote:It's shit like this that makes me wish college athletics dies a horrible, horrible death.

This is completely disgusting. We can't pay players, but we can give their handlers a bonus that is very close to how much the player is getting in scholarship money?

FYI... OSU is very top heavy in wrestling next year. They have four studs that could win national championships. It might be the end of PSU's streak.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:01 pm

Big step?

howard · Post by **howard** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:23 pm

Shouldn't take long for the appropriate federal court to slap this shit down. But, the sham of college amateur sports is nearly done. I think the NCAA will be dead before the legal system finishes with the pay to play issue. And the successor organization of big football schools will pay their players--but a capped number far below their fair value.

By the way, doesn't the first amendment to our constitution guarantee the (obvious human) right to freedom of assembly? And by logical extension, freedom of association? How the fuck does a group of college students need anybody's permission to form a union? Oh, right, America.

You gonna be writing on this topic regularly? Or just news reporting as events pop up?

howard · Post by **howard** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:47 pm

Masiello lied about having a degree. And Manhattan College is considering retaining him as head coach. SI headline:
Steve Masiello’s false resume means tough decision for Manhattan

Tough decision? Why is there even a discussion about this? Am I the only one who gives a fuck about the rules?

As far as I am concerned, this has nothing to do with academia and the sham student-athlete construct. Not too many institutions, private or public, academic or otherwise, don't summarily dismiss an employee who is caught lying about holding a degree.

Post by **Sabo** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:30 pm

howard wrote:Am I the only one who gives a fuck about the rules?

You're only allowed to use this line if you're in a bowling alley with a handgun in your hand.

howard · Post by **howard** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:51 pm

Will you settle for one out of two?

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:24 pm

I care about him lying, but who cares if a coach his degree or not?

Post by **Sabo** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:29 pm

howard wrote:Will you settle for one out of two?

As long as it's the handgun, then sure.

ETA: Actually, fuck that. YOU GOTTA FOLLOW THE RULES.

howard · Post by **howard** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:38 pm

Rush2112 wrote:I care about him lying, but who cares if a coach his degree or not?

Exactly. Me too.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:33 pm

Yeah well Manhattan lies about what borough they're in, so what do you expect?

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:02 pm

howard wrote:Shouldn't take long for the appropriate federal court to slap this shit down. But, the sham of college amateur sports is nearly done. I think the NCAA will be dead before the legal system finishes with the pay to play issue. And the successor organization of big football schools will pay their players--but a capped number far below their fair value.

By the way, doesn't the first amendment to our constitution guarantee the (obvious human) right to freedom of assembly? And by logical extension, freedom of association? How the fuck does a group of college students need anybody's permission to form a union? Oh, right, America.

You gonna be writing on this topic regularly? Or just news reporting as events pop up?

Hopefully more the former. Had a good conversation tonight with a former college football player (who is trying to make it in the NFL) and he brought up a ton of good points that have been brought up by smart folks, but from an athlete's point of view.

howard · Post by **howard** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:36 pm

For some background, take a look at Shane Battier's efforts back when he was in college. Shit, that was a long time ago.

One problem (which Battier beautifully illustrated), college athletes stop caring about the plight of college athletes very early in their adult life. Regardless of their wealth and success, or lack thereof, soon after their eligibility expires. Just human nature.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:59 am

I don't understand why presumed non-communists bring up the stupid argument of "if you play basketball players, then do you have to pay swimmers too?". No. You fucking don't have to pay swimmers, but if there is a demand for some football player to do a car commercial, then he's allowed to do it.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:03 am

When you break it down, the thinking of 'presumed non-communists' in this country is colored by a whole lot of communistic/socialistic thinking and assumptions.

Before your knee jerks (not you specifically, GPJ), let me continue that the first group that comes to mind is bankers/wall streeters/general motors folks. The ones who are first with their hands out (and the first to have those hands filled) when they fail or fuck up, because, fairness!

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:06 am

All I'm sayin' is that when it comes to money, Jameis Winston is not the same as some backup women's field hockey player at Oberlin, no matter what the National Communist Athletic Association says.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:12 am

Is she hot?

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:27 am

AB_skin_test wrote:Is she hot?

Fuck no, she goes to Oberlin

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:13 am

Rush2112 wrote:I care about him lying, but who cares if a coach his degree or not?

Why care about the lying? South Florida lies about being in, you know, South Florida.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:28 am

AB_skin_test wrote:
Rush2112 wrote:I care about him lying, but who cares if a coach his degree or not?

Why care about the lying? South Florida lies about being in, you know, South Florida.

Same people that don't care that Clinton got a BJ but "care" that he lied about it in court.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:33 am

I was just going for a cheap joke. It certainly matters to falsify a resume.

This isn't on the same level as O'Leary making stuff up that wasn't even close to true, but it should be rectified. I bet UK would work with him on finishing his degree. If you go four years, you have to be somewhat close and the internet should make it fairly easy to get the remaining credits.

But that Cowlishaw dude on around the horn that said "Almost graduating is as good as graduating from UK" can suck my nose.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:38 am

They can fire him but I don't care that a basketball coach lied on a resume and never will. I don't care that O'Leary did either. I think he's a terrible coach though.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:42 am

Gunpowder wrote:They can fire him but I don't care that a basketball coach lied on a resume and never will. I don't care that O'Leary did either. I think he's a terrible coach though.

Liars make terrible coaches.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:49 am

The interesting thing to me about this is that it currently would only cover the private schools, back to the ability of the labor people to interact with public universities.

The best way for this to go nationwide is for some 5-star recruit to pick a private school because it can offer him a better package than the football mills at public universities. What does it mean? NOTRE DAME NATIONAL CHAMPS 2017-2034.

Except no...the minute some kid says he's picking Notre Dame over Alabama because he can get a better compensation package is the minute Mike Slive (and his other big conference cronies) says, "you're right, they're employees and we can pay them now."

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:08 am

There is no such thing as a private college that engages in NCAA D-1 sports. They are all heavy recipients of public federal funds. Hence, the enforceability of Title IX, as well as plenty of other titles of other federal codes.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:09 am

Will you quit being such a doomsayer for FIVE MINUTES?!?!?!

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:15 am

Sorry the reminder of the fact that we are all under the boot-heel of the totalitarian federal government is doomsaying.

As my man Graham Parker sez, don't blame me, I merely describe reality.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:23 am

Theoretically, can the NCAA just wash its hands and get out of the football business?

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:36 am

Rex - Many folks are pontificating that it is headed in that direction, but the drivers are the big football conferences.

So, same result, but certainly not something the NCAA wants.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:44 am

AB_skin_test wrote:But that Cowlishaw dude on around the horn that said "Almost graduating is as good as graduating from UK" can suck my nose.

On a semi-related note, a UNC athlete got an A- on this paper:

But, of course, it's really important that college basketball stars stay in college for at least 2 years so that they can get an "education."

Post by **brian** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:46 am

Nonlinear FC wrote:Rex - Many folks are pontificating that it is headed in that direction, but the drivers are the big football conferences.

So, same result, but certainly not something the NCAA wants.

This just speeds along what the power conference schools have wanted all along -- a "mega-conference" with the 40 (or so) most powerful teams. Those schools -- the Alabama's, Michigan's, Oregon's, etc. -- will re-organize under the guise of a "semipro" system knit into the fabric of a university. (If you follow college basketball, not really too much different than how the major high school prep programs operate. An organization within an organization.) There's a lot to be worked out but football players will attend the university and can advance towards a degree, but I doubt you'll see anything like the hand-wringing you do now over APR standards. If they weren't already, football players will be "student-athletes" in name only.

What happens to the rest of the schools? I think there's still a huge appetite for college football and those schools will re-organize under the NCAA umbrella. The NCAA will probably for the first time have a college football playoff for its top-level of schools. They should relish the opportunity to escape away from the bowl system and organize their own playoffs. "Compensation" for those players will be fairly similar to what it is now -- full scholarships with some payment stipends. Since they're not going to have to worry as much about boosters paying off players, the NCAA will also be happy to be rid of the superpower schools*

* - do athletes at FCS schools, etc. get paid off now? Of course they do, though likely not at any level that's going to great a competitive imbalance like you see with schools like LSU and Alabama where kickbacks, payoffs, etc. are ingrained as a way of life

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:56 am

Joe K wrote:
AB_skin_test wrote:But that Cowlishaw dude on around the horn that said "Almost graduating is as good as graduating from UK" can suck my nose.
On a semi-related note, a UNC athlete got an A- on this paper:

But, of course, it's really important that college basketball stars stay in college for at least 2 years so that they can get an "education."

Well yeah. The professor explicitly said double-space your papers. Had no choice but to count off for that.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:05 pm

I am not sure at what educational level that would be 'A' work. I did a much longer and involved report on Alain Locke when I was in 5th grade. And that was south central Los Angeles school, not Davis school. I'm gonna go with 4th grade.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:16 pm

brian wrote:
* - do athletes at FCS schools, etc. get paid off now? Of course they do, though likely not at any level that's going to great a competitive imbalance like you see with schools like LSU and Alabama where kickbacks, payoffs, etc. are ingrained as a way of life

This goes all the way down to D3... schools (and their supporting boosters) that build their reputation around a powerhouse program (in any sport) will start to do shady stuff to maintain their position.

Sweater Vest was shady at Youngstown St., before he got shady at OSU.

Post by **brian** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:21 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:
brian wrote:
* - do athletes at FCS schools, etc. get paid off now? Of course they do, though likely not at any level that's going to great a competitive imbalance like you see with schools like LSU and Alabama where kickbacks, payoffs, etc. are ingrained as a way of life
This goes all the way down to D3... schools (and their supporting boosters) that build their reputation around a powerhouse program (in any sport) will start to do shady stuff to maintain their position.

Sweater Vest was shady at Youngstown St., before he got shady at OSU.

Oh absolutely. The only difference is scale. If you take the schools like the SEC schools that are effectively paying off players now to the tune of probably millions of dollars (no exaggeration), then what you're left with is an environment where schools can at least compete on mostly equal terms.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:59 am

Pretty interesting current take on the NCAA's finances:

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2014 ... s/6973767/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:15 am

Joe K wrote:
AB_skin_test wrote:But that Cowlishaw dude on around the horn that said "Almost graduating is as good as graduating from UK" can suck my nose.
On a semi-related note, a UNC athlete got an A- on this paper:

But, of course, it's really important that college basketball stars stay in college for at least 2 years so that they can get an "education."

Gonna have to defend the alma mater here. I took that exact class and im pretty sure I got a B+. Point blank, AFAM 41 around that same period (mid 90s) was not a sham class. Really its an entry level history class taught in a medium size lecture hall (they have now built a new AFAM building). Maybe 150-200 students. The prof I had gave tricky exams. I don't recall writing anything at all. We had a midterm and a final. The final was easier than the mid-term but maybe that's just because the midterm specifically required knowledge of particular reading assignments that weren't necessarily the core information in the class. Even if there were papers, no way the prof was reading all those papers. I don't really remember TAs but ive got to believe that there were at least 2.

By the way, not sure what that pic is supposed to show. Is that the whole paper? Seems to be pages below that. Now I remember several football players being very much behind in freshman writing classes, to the point that one would wonder how they passed, but AFAM 41 was not one of those deals.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:35 am

That's the whole paper as I read the story. I assume the stack underneath are papers from other students in the class.

Post by **brian** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:45 am

AB_skin_test wrote:That's the whole paper as I read the story. I assume the stack underneath are papers from other students in the class.

Did they photoshop out the guy's name on the paper? Otherwise that sticks out as being missing.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:45 pm

Greatest Minor League Promotion of All Time of the Week

Post by **Sabo** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:30 pm

AB_skin_test wrote:Greatest Minor League Promotion of All Time of the Week

That's awesome. I'm going to try to go.

ETA: They're also doing a Jobu bobblehead give away in early August.