The Swamp

That thought just popped into my head after seeing the picture from Ferguson, Missouri.

Other than "we want to feel like Rambo!," why are local cops wearing camoflauge gear to address a "riot" in the middle of a town? Who are the cops trying to hide from?

The militarization of local police forces is one of the most troubling aspects of American society in the last 10-15 years. It's REALLY bad here, I don't know about where all of y'all live, but the cops here act like an occupying army. It's appalling.

brian wrote:The militarization of local police forces is one of the most troubling aspects of American society in the last 10-15 years. It's REALLY bad here, I don't know about where all of y'all live, but the cops here act like an occupying army. It's appalling.

Are those the local suburban cops? That's a small town.

Jokes aside, that picture and the entire concept of police in camo is extremely disturbing. I get the blue riot gear in major cities, but I think it makes a big difference in perception and even the mindset of the officers wearing camo instead of blue uniforms. Wearing camo and toting a large semi-automatic rifle (is that term acceptable for the guns pictured?), IMO, makes the officer more likely to shoot or injure someone. I also notice the word "Police" is written much smaller than you usually see it on riot gear or blue windbreakers. Those outfits don't say "serve and protect" imo.

I'm betting it's the same principle as alternate uniforms at colleges...they think they look cool.

The Sybian wrote:Jokes aside, that picture and the entire concept of police in camo is extremely disturbing. I get the blue riot gear in major cities, but I think it makes a big difference in perception and even the mindset of the officers wearing camo instead of blue uniforms. Wearing camo and toting a large semi-automatic rifle (is that term acceptable for the guns pictured?), IMO, makes the officer more likely to shoot or injure someone. I also notice the word "Police" is written much smaller than you usually see it on riot gear or blue windbreakers. Those outfits don't say "serve and protect" imo.

They are serving and protecting us from that obviously dangerous criminal.

I think after 9/11, all local cops convinced themselves that they may have to deal with some sort of international terrorist attack or Red Dawn-style invasion some day. I think a lot of them HOPE to.

Shouldn't their camo look like the outside of a Denny's?

Rex wrote:Are those the local suburban cops? That's a small town.

It's actually St. Louis. I went to college there and didn't recognize the town name, but it's an area right by the airport. North St. Louis is a largely black area of the city, so obviously the cops need to be heavily armed and camoed.

Echo others. At least there can be no illusions that the police state has arrived. Howard will be happy that is on the surface at this point...

Please temper this with a grain of salt since I parachute (not literally, though that would be cool) into STL four times a year for work, but STL has a very fucked up racial vibe. (If we're being fair, on both sides of the racial divide.)

I have an antenna for that having lived in the Detroit area for most of my life. That this would happen in STL surprises me not in the least.

I hope our infrequent local Swamper is keeping safe, and wearing his....gammyflage.

rass wrote:I hope our infrequent local Swamper is keeping safe, and wearing his....gammyflage.

Fritz has been tweeting a lot about it.


And, this great post needs to be recognized:

Rex wrote:Shouldn't their camo look like the outside of a Denny's?

Harrumph, harrumph.

brian wrote:Please temper this with a grain of salt since I parachute (not literally, though that would be cool) into STL four times a year for work, but STL has a very fucked up racial vibe. (If we're being fair, on both sides of the racial divide.)

I have an antenna for that having lived in the Detroit area for most of my life. That this would happen in STL surprises me not in the least.

Indeed. It is a very segregated city. My wife grew up in the burbs there and had pretty much no black students in her school that weren't bused in. And other areas, like north St. Louis, are pretty much the opposite. As you might suspect, there is a comparable economic divide as well. Wash U was right on the border of a "bad" part of town, where "bad" in this case also meant black (and more importantly, poor). There was a road just by an apartment I lived on (just down the street from Blueberry Hill for those who know St. Louis), where things literally and obviously change drastically from one side of the street to the other.

Update - check this demographic map:
(Whoops - too big!)

Shirley wrote:

brian wrote:Please temper this with a grain of salt since I parachute (not literally, though that would be cool) into STL four times a year for work, but STL has a very fucked up racial vibe. (If we're being fair, on both sides of the racial divide.)

I have an antenna for that having lived in the Detroit area for most of my life. That this would happen in STL surprises me not in the least.

Indeed. It is a very segregated city. My wife grew up in the burbs there and had pretty much no black students in her school that weren't bused in. And other areas, like north St. Louis, are pretty much the opposite. As you might suspect, there is a comparable economic divide as well. Wash U was right on the border of a "bad" part of town, where "bad" in this case also meant black (and more importantly, poor). There was a road just by an apartment I lived on (just down the street from Blueberry Hill for those who know St. Louis), where things literally and obviously change drastically from one side of the street to the other.

I think there's a lot of unspoken, sub-surface resentment between the races too and it's weird for me every time coming from Las Vegas (not a post-racial utopia by any stretch, but a fairly uncomplicated city racially if we're being honest) and it hits me like a wall of cold water. I take the light rail from the airport into the downtown area and you just get icy stares from a lot of black folks. And again, you can feel the stares from a lot of the white folks towards the black folks. You (I) almost want to say out loud sometimes "Hey, I'm a tourist. Keep me out of your guys' crap."

Here's a great image of the demographics of the city - http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/desig ... -louis.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You can see Wash U just to the left of Forest Park. Look for the large blue and red square - that's the dorms. The frat house are the smaller rectangle just to the north and the sections of blue and red just to the north of that is where most off campus apartments are. You'll notice just to the north and east of that part it quickly turns all green.

There are sections of the city where they've done a much better job of integration (see the Central West End just to the east of Forest Park), but clearly there's work to be done there. It's such an otherwise friendly town.

I'm moving to St. Louis (Central West End) from Boston in a couple of months. The contrast between the police presence in the Central West End (mostly on bikes, wearing blue with POLICE in big letters, no huge guns) and the photo at the top of this thread is pretty stark. That demographic map is pretty crazy by the way. I saw a stat that the Central West End is about 60% white, 28% black, and 12% Asian. But if you walk about 2 blocks North of where I'm going to live, the neighborhood is something like 95% black.

I love Central West End. If I had to move to STL, I'd definitely move to that area (assuming I didn't win MegaMillions and end up with a place off of Forest Park).

brian wrote:I love Central West End. If I had to move to STL, I'd definitely move to that area (assuming I didn't win MegaMillions and end up with a place off of Forest Park).

Yeah, it's a great neighborhood, and the rent there is very reasonable. (Especially coming from Boston.)

The pearl-clutching regarding militarization of the police on full display this week in St. Louis cracks me the fuck up. Like all of a sudden this popped up.

The militarization of the Boston police was cheered, literally cheered in the streets, after the marathon bombing.

The cop in Oakland who during one of the Occupy protests shot a grenade at a wounded (Iraq vet) protester and those attending him, was returned to duty yesterday, after collecting sick pay for three years.

The UC Davis incident came and went with zero reform.

That is just off the top of my head, looking back only a couple of years.Lets jump way back. There was a tv show in the 70s glorifying the S.W.A.T team, which was a direct response to the 1965 LA riot, as a counter to urban communities.

This shit continues because a large segment of our sick, twisted society thinks it is grand. Keep those niggers/hippies in line. And a larger segment quietly tolerates it. When they aren't cheering it.

But, so fucking shocking today to so many twits, seeing these pictures.

Cracks me the fuck up. Since a more serious approach has yielded me little in the past.

Joe K wrote:I'm moving to St. Louis (Central West End) from Boston in a couple of months. The contrast between the police presence in the Central West End (mostly on bikes, wearing blue with POLICE in big letters, no huge guns) and the photo at the top of this thread is pretty stark. That demographic map is pretty crazy by the way. I saw a stat that the Central West End is about 60% white, 28% black, and 12% Asian. But if you walk about 2 blocks North of where I'm going to live, the neighborhood is something like 95% black.

Boston wasn't racially segregated enough for you, so you found the one city in the US that is even worse?

Typical media sensationalism in the picture. This picture tells the whole story. Look at the mailbox. "Fuck the police" written on Federal property? This is clearly a threat to the officers' lives and an act of aggression. Whatever "they" get, they were asking for it.

I read some tweets from the scene last night that protesters were singing "Fuck the Police" and police subsequently tear-gassed them. I was desperately hoping there were missing details to that story about some sort of criminal activity...

The Sybian wrote:

Joe K wrote:I'm moving to St. Louis (Central West End) from Boston in a couple of months. The contrast between the police presence in the Central West End (mostly on bikes, wearing blue with POLICE in big letters, no huge guns) and the photo at the top of this thread is pretty stark. That demographic map is pretty crazy by the way. I saw a stat that the Central West End is about 60% white, 28% black, and 12% Asian. But if you walk about 2 blocks North of where I'm going to live, the neighborhood is something like 95% black.

Boston wasn't racially segregated enough for you, so you found the one city in the US that is even worse?

According to this article, Boston is #9 and St. Louis #8 on the list of most segregated U.S. cities. So I guess I have seven more cities that I can move to. Next up, Cleveland. (For the record, that article ranks Detroit as the #1 most segregated.)

Ryan wrote:http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/americ ... 1620169913

Yup. Was just coming here to post that.

The writing on Deadspin has been outstanding for awhile now. Truly.

As for Doc's latest rant...Doc, how else are people going to wake up? The mainstream media obviously won't cover it, so twitter pics and non-traditional journalism have to get the word out. Good luck finding writing like that Deadspin piece on traditional media, and forget about seeing real discussion of that on the tv media.

Joe K wrote:

The Sybian wrote:

Joe K wrote:I'm moving to St. Louis (Central West End) from Boston in a couple of months. The contrast between the police presence in the Central West End (mostly on bikes, wearing blue with POLICE in big letters, no huge guns) and the photo at the top of this thread is pretty stark. That demographic map is pretty crazy by the way. I saw a stat that the Central West End is about 60% white, 28% black, and 12% Asian. But if you walk about 2 blocks North of where I'm going to live, the neighborhood is something like 95% black.

Boston wasn't racially segregated enough for you, so you found the one city in the US that is even worse?

According to this article, Boston is #9 and St. Louis #8 on the list of most segregated U.S. cities. So I guess I have seven more cities that I can move to. Next up, Cleveland. (For the record, that article ranks Detroit as the #1 most segregated.)

Detroit's demographics map is insane, from what I remember.

Bengal, I am so far beyond suggesting what the fuck people should do. I've been trying for fucking decades. I've tried on this forum for years.

This turn the question back to me, 'what should people do' is just more fucking high comedy at this point. Like it is my fucking responsibility for waking people up, in light of my actions and conversations with everyone I consider a friend over the last, well, over my entire lifetime.

"But what can we do? There is no alternative?" Such responses speak for themselves so much more clearly than I could ever.

Let us, my dear boy (as Keith Moon used to say,) reflect on suggestions from people a lot wiser than me. Like Frederick Douglass. Or Malcolm. Just for two off the top of my head. And, please, argue with them if you have objections-- like I said, I am far beyond answering this question with anything more than a laugh.

A few weeks before his death in 1895, Douglass was asked what advice he would give to a young black American. “Agitate! Agitate! Agitate!” the old man answered.

(I think we all remember Malcolm's answer to the question 'how'.)

I wasn't saying you should suggest what people do.

I was wondering why you are so pissed at a medium that might drive the message home in a way that traditional media and media mediums to do not.

As many have said before, America won't wake up as long as we have our cable TV, broadband internet, Kardashian-style "news" and accessible food. Things need to continue to deteriorate down the path they are heading until we reach a tipping point. Once income disparity reaches a level where enough people are struggling to get by, we'll see a movement take shape. The Tea Party has become bigger and lasted longer than I would have thought possible. OTOH, they never would have taken off (or subverted the original ideas of the TP) if not for FoxNews driving the movement. The problem is, the idiot brigade is screeching for policies that will only benefit the wealthy and corporations and the detriment of the rest of us. It is really shocking how far the wealth of the 99% has fallen since 1980, and how much power and control multinational corps have assumed.

It would be great if we had the option to vote for politicians who would protect the interests on the 99% (hate using that term, but am at a loss for a better one), but that will never happen without campaign finance reform. Since the media is in cahoots with the powers that be, a populist candidate won't get the media attention necessary to compete, and if they do get traction, they will probably be torn down by the media. Hopefully the corporate media will lose importance, while smaller online sources without the need to placate big money will take over. I think it will happen eventually, unless the power structure is able to keep us from hitting the tipping point. I just think greed will blind them to the breaking point.

I am not pissed at the medium.

I am amused at the people. Clutching their pearls.

And, responding to your query, 'how else are people going to wake up'. I humbly suggest posting on twitter as a means to wake up, well, cracks me the fuck up as well.

Of course I take the question 'how else are people to wake up' as a rhetorical question. Just extending the rhetoric.

before I hit 'submit', I see syb has a post. ima gunna hit submit, then read his latest. But, ima gunna drop out, got things to do.

The necessity of alternative media to carry stories like this is plainly evident here and was also evident in the documentary "The Newburg Sting" that I watched last night. You may remember it as the case where the FBI recruited four people to carry out a "terrorist attack" on a couple Jewish sites in the Bronx.

All of the mainstream media coverage was about how dangerous the guys were and how they were infiltrated by the FBI. The FBI put it all together. I won't get in to all the details, but I would recommend the documentary. The guys didn't even arm the fake bombs they planted. They all were in desperate situations and were exploited and entrapped by the FBI.

My wife asked me what we could do about things like that and I honestly had no response other than to say when you hear people talking about things like that, remind them that most of the "home grown terrorism" cases solved by the FBI were products of the FBI and not any actual radicalized American "terrorists." It's shameful.

howard wrote:I am not pissed at the medium.

I am amused at the people. Clutching their pearls.

And, responding to your query, 'how else are people going to wake up'. I humbly suggest posting on twitter as a means to wake up, well, cracks me the fuck up as well.

Of course I take the question 'how else are people to wake up' as a rhetorical question. Just extending the rhetoric.

before I hit 'submit', I see syb has a post. ima gunna hit submit, then read his latest. But, ima gunna drop out, got things to do.

Doc...if images and coverage help move the meter, and you can't get that from the usual sources, then, yes, perhaps it flying around on twitter is a help.

But, sure, cynacism is cool too. That has definitely worked out for our generations...

tennbengal wrote:

howard wrote:I am not pissed at the medium.

I am amused at the people. Clutching their pearls.

And, responding to your query, 'how else are people going to wake up'. I humbly suggest posting on twitter as a means to wake up, well, cracks me the fuck up as well.

Of course I take the question 'how else are people to wake up' as a rhetorical question. Just extending the rhetoric.

before I hit 'submit', I see syb has a post. ima gunna hit submit, then read his latest. But, ima gunna drop out, got things to do.

Doc...if images and coverage help move the meter, and you can't get that from the usual sources, then, yes, perhaps it flying around on twitter is a help.

But, sure, cynacism is cool too. That has definitely worked out for our generations...

The problem with social media and comment sections on websites is that people post shit and think they are doing something. I know how stupid that thought is, but subconsciously I bitch online, and the vitriol subsides. Instead of becoming pent up rage leading to action, I vent periodically and feel better.

Fair enough. So...what should people be doing?

I am working my usual 7:30 am - 6:00 pm, give or take, then stuff with kids tonight. I am guessing you are similar.

So...what is it that should be done?

Is not the first step watching the consciousness of more than just the politically active get raised? And then maybe movement might occur?

tennbengal wrote:

howard wrote:I am not pissed at the medium.

I am amused at the people. Clutching their pearls.

And, responding to your query, 'how else are people going to wake up'. I humbly suggest posting on twitter as a means to wake up, well, cracks me the fuck up as well.

Of course I take the question 'how else are people to wake up' as a rhetorical question. Just extending the rhetoric.

before I hit 'submit', I see syb has a post. ima gunna hit submit, then read his latest. But, ima gunna drop out, got things to do.

Doc...if images and coverage help move the meter, and you can't get that from the usual sources, then, yes, perhaps it flying around on twitter is a help.

But, sure, cynacism is cool too. That has definitely worked out for our generations...

Ain't cynicism. As Gore Vidal used to say, I'm not cynical--I'm just trying to keep up with reality. (and failing.)

Images and 'coverage' on twitter do not move the meter. They have the opposite effect of waking people up. They offer an emotionally satisfying substitute for actual thought. Just like the 'feeling' pieces on the daily propaganda.

Such pearl-clutching on twitter achieves the exact opposite of people waking up. Such a dynamic I've witnessed over and over and over, since Watts 49 years ago. The latest medium is just that; the emotional process ain't new. But that can just be dismissed as more cynicism. Instead of telling yourself it is helping.

The Sybian wrote:As many have said before, America won't wake up as long as we have our cable TV, broadband internet, Kardashian-style "news" and accessible food. Things need to continue to deteriorate down the path they are heading until we reach a tipping point. Once income disparity reaches a level where enough people are struggling to get by, we'll see a movement take shape. The Tea Party has become bigger and lasted longer than I would have thought possible. OTOH, they never would have taken off (or subverted the original ideas of the TP) if not for FoxNews driving the movement. The problem is, the idiot brigade is screeching for policies that will only benefit the wealthy and corporations and the detriment of the rest of us. It is really shocking how far the wealth of the 99% has fallen since 1980, and how much power and control multinational corps have assumed.

People already are struggling, they don't seem to even realize it, and at their core they believe in what they perceive to be the rationale behind it.

Gunpowder wrote:

The Sybian wrote:As many have said before, America won't wake up as long as we have our cable TV, broadband internet, Kardashian-style "news" and accessible food. Things need to continue to deteriorate down the path they are heading until we reach a tipping point. Once income disparity reaches a level where enough people are struggling to get by, we'll see a movement take shape. The Tea Party has become bigger and lasted longer than I would have thought possible. OTOH, they never would have taken off (or subverted the original ideas of the TP) if not for FoxNews driving the movement. The problem is, the idiot brigade is screeching for policies that will only benefit the wealthy and corporations and the detriment of the rest of us. It is really shocking how far the wealth of the 99% has fallen since 1980, and how much power and control multinational corps have assumed.

People already are struggling, they don't seem to even realize it, and at their core they believe in what they perceive to be the rationale behind it.

I agree, but as long as struggling people remain distracted with all of our electronic devices and TV, and are able to eat, we remain placated. I think my generation is in for a major shock when we reach retirement age. A huge percentage don't have a retirement savings account or much in savings to begin with. The days of using your home as an economic nest egg are gone and may never come back. Salaries have not increased much nearly as much as inflation, and nobody outside of a union has a pension. And unions are a dying concept. Social Security, at best, will be a fraction of what it historically has been.