Hey, I Learn Something New Everyday, Two

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:13 am

mister d wrote:I don't think that's true at all about religion. If anything, its the opposite. Lots of people who aren't all that bright accepting they aren't that bright and just having faith because they're told to.

As children, in the early indoctrination process, it's definitely about authority. You're absolutely right. When you get older though and develop the critical faculties to reason, and you see a reality that doesn't mesh with your worldview yet you have no desire to emancipate yourself from it...that's confirmation bias. DK effect. Emperor's new clothes...whatever you want to call it. Has nothing to do with not being bright though.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:22 am

See, I think you're proving the other side of the effect here. Because after getting older (and married) you decided to question religion and found it illogical, you assume every runs through the same "I should question this" process and then makes a more intelligent decision to veer off or stay on course. They don't. Either actively or passively, a lot of people don't ever even reach that step.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:42 am

mister d wrote:See, I think you're proving the other side of the effect here. Because after getting older (and married) you decided to question religion and found it illogical, you assume every runs through the same "I should question this" process and then makes a more intelligent decision to veer off or stay on course. They don't. Either actively or passively, a lot of people don't ever even reach that step.

That's not what happened to me though. I started questioning it far before shedding it. I didn't believe it when I got married...just didn't want people to think of us as heathens. I didn't believe it when I had my kid baptized...just didn't want to piss of my mom. I haven't really believed it since high school...just didn't want to suffer the social consequences of calling myself an atheist. Not until that priest called my infant child a demon did I realize that I needed to start being intellectually honest about it.

We are an extremely tribal species and that's good. We probably would have never made it out of the African Savannah if we weren't. To mistake it for stupidity I think is extremely short-sighted.

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:37 pm

There was a pope named Lando.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:12 pm

Johnny Carwash wrote:There was a pope named Lando.

You have no idea how funny this is - my friends are going to wet their pants.

One of my oldest friends' last name is Landau.

When we were at university, his father and uncle changed the spelling of the family's last name from Lando to Landau. My buddy laughed that his father claimed that LANDO was "too goyish."

http://dodicklandau.ca/about-us/

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:48 pm

mister d wrote:See, I think you're proving the other side of the effect here. Because after getting older (and married) you decided to question religion and found it illogical, you assume every runs through the same "I should question this" process and then makes a more intelligent decision to veer off or stay on course. They don't. Either actively or passively, a lot of people don't ever even reach that step.

I see it as the people most confident in their religion being true are the ones who question it the least. They take pride in their faith being so strong, they never question anything. When confronted with logic or rational thought, they gleefully look down upon the person other person, saying they don't get it, because the beauty of religion is knowing your view is correct because you blindly accept it. That is often followed by an attempt to get the other person to attempt to shut off the logical part of their brain and take the Soma.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:04 pm

The Sybian wrote:
mister d wrote:See, I think you're proving the other side of the effect here. Because after getting older (and married) you decided to question religion and found it illogical, you assume every runs through the same "I should question this" process and then makes a more intelligent decision to veer off or stay on course. They don't. Either actively or passively, a lot of people don't ever even reach that step.
I see it as the people most confident in their religion being true are the ones who question it the least. They take pride in their faith being so strong, they never question anything. When confronted with logic or rational thought, they gleefully look down upon the person other person, saying they don't get it, because the beauty of religion is knowing your view is correct because you blindly accept it. That is often followed by an attempt to get the other person to attempt to shut off the logical part of their brain and take the Soma.

Religion is sneaky. Questioning one's ideology is spun as a test in faith — the only way to pass is to ignore your own reasonable doubts. It's an act of piety to resist the temptation of reason. (Of course, the strongest belief strains have this ingrained the most, as the ones that don't or didn't would no longer be around.)

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:10 pm

By the technical definition of the term, there are no active battleships in any navy in the world.

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:28 pm

The Dreadnought ain't coming through that door

Post by **Shirley** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:07 am

Johnny Carwash wrote:By the technical definition of the term, there are no active battleships in any navy in the world.

I had no idea.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:37 pm

P.D.X. wrote: Religion is sneaky. Questioning one's ideology is spun as a test in faith — the only way to pass is to ignore your own reasonable doubts. It's an act of piety to resist the temptation of reason. (Of course, the strongest belief strains have this ingrained the most, as the ones that don't or didn't would no longer be around.)

Not to mention the clergy and the larger power structure needing the flock to believe without question. Funny how so much religious doctrine changes to keep the followers in line, or in Mormonism, to appease the founder's wife and bilk his followers. I always loved the concept of indulgences; pay the Church to get God's forgiveness. Or when the Church is losing too much property through Priests bequeathing land to their heirs, so suddenly priests need to remain chaste.

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:07 pm

In 1998, the Modern Library, a division of Random House, published a list of Best Novels of the 20th century, selected by its editorial board. It looked like this:

# Year Title Author
1 1922 Ulysses | James Joyce
2 1925 The Great Gatsby | F. Scott Fitzgerald
3 1916 A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man | James Joyce
4 1955 Lolita | Vladimir Nabokov
5 1932 Brave New World | Aldous Huxley
6 1929 The Sound and the Fury | William Faulkner
7 1961 Catch-22 | Joseph Heller
8 1940 Darkness at Noon | Arthur Koestler
9 1913 Sons and Lovers | D. H. Lawrence
10 1939 The Grapes of Wrath | John Steinbeck

The next year, they published a Readers' List, with the results taken from a self-selected public poll. It looked like this:

# Year Title Author
1 1957 Atlas Shrugged | Ayn Rand
2 1943 The Fountainhead | Ayn Rand
3 1982 Battlefield Earth | L. Ron Hubbard
4 1954–55 The Lord of the Rings | J.R.R. Tolkien
5 1960 To Kill a Mockingbird | Harper Lee
6 1949 1984 | George Orwell
7 1938 Anthem | Ayn Rand
8 1936 We the Living | Ayn Rand
9 1985 Mission Earth | L. Ron Hubbard
10 1940 Fear | L. Ron Hubbard

Post by **brian** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:11 pm

The lesson as always -- people are dumb.

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:40 pm

brian wrote:The lesson as always -- people are dumb.

Yeah, I mean seriously...George Orwell?

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:06 pm

Johnny Carwash wrote:
brian wrote:The lesson as always -- people are dumb.
Yeah, I mean seriously...George Orwell?

And Lee... most have read only because of school.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:11 pm

Joyce's work moving from first and third to off the list entirely is exactly as Joyce would have had it.

As a big fan of Orwell, it does trouble me a bit that his novel shows up on the second list, in that company. Perhaps the public confused 1984 with his fun little children's book set in a barnyard?

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:24 pm

Looks like a lot of Scientologists voted for L. Ron Hubbard.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:29 pm

Nah, just kids who grew up to be Royal's fans. Even then with enough effort you could vote 100 times.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:30 pm

So, who were the Orwell fans, the Scientologists or the Randians?

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:36 pm

The followers of Hubbard of course appreciated science fiction set in the distant future. Rand's devotees dug the anti-government angle of 1984.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:49 pm

This reminds me that Marx perfectly nailed the description of the fatal flaw in the capitalist system, yet he whiffed on the prescription for an alternative. Similarly, Rand nailed the natural endpoint of socialism (totalitarian extinguishing of individual freedom), but Ayn kinda whiffed on the prescription as badly as did Karl.

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:52 pm

I just came to the horrible realization that there have to be at least a few people out there who are both Scientologists and Ayn Rand enthusiasts.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:52 pm

I remember finding both Dianetics (Hubbard) and Atlas Shrugged (Rand) on my parents' bookshelf around 1970. I would have saved a lot of time on my eventual spiritual-philosophic journey if I had just inter-leafed the books' pages and committed myself fully to the resulting perspective.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:53 pm

howard wrote:This reminds me that Marx perfectly nailed the description of the fatal flaw in the capitalist system, yet he whiffed on the prescription for an alternative. Similarly, Rand nailed the natural endpoint of socialism (totalitarian extinguishing of individual freedom), but Ayn kinda whiffed on the prescription as badly as did Karl.

You'd describe it as a 'whiff' if your work resulted in a cult of devoted followers who slavishly followed your every command and sought to satisfy your very whim? Tough sell.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:14 pm

Hey, Marx did have over a billion people and half the inhabited land mass under his sway.

And, yes I know you meant Rand.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:22 pm

During his lifetime, the only people Marx could rely on for sex, money, and devotion were Mrs. Marx and Mr. Engels.

Better to have been Rand. She had thousands who were down for at least two of the three.

And which of them was able to place a devotee as head of the world's most powerful central bank?

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:04 pm

DC47 wrote:And which of them was able to place a devotee as head of the world's central bank?

fify

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:09 pm

Only for short time longer, wo de pengyou.

L-Jam3 · Post by **L-Jam3** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:58 am

Oh for fuck's sakes. Thanks for ruining my morning by bringing that bitch up. I would hazard a guess that no woman ruined America worse than that fucking cunt.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:03 am

I don't care if I'm the only person that isn't jerking off to 1984. Yeah, it was alright. But it's like "yeah man...it's a slippery slope. Hold on, let me write a whole book telling just how slippery this slope can get!". Great.

Now people use it to back up their "hard truths" that only they, and maybe 150 million others, are courageous enough to share on Facebook.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:06 pm

In My Time Of Dying was recorded by the dude who sang the theme to Welcome Back Kotter before Led Zeppelin.

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:08 pm

John Sebastian. What do I win? (I did not know he recorded a version of that old blues tune that zep took.)

eta: more words

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:15 pm

So Welcome Back Kotter the best theme song? It's gotta be in the discussion.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:00 am

Didn't like Welcome Back Kotter, hated the theme - which got a lot of air play on top 40 radio back in the day.

Here's a Flatt and Scruggs classic...

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:58 am

Golden Girls or GTFO.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:21 am

Toni Tennille of Captain and Tennille fame sang on Pink Floyd's "The Wall."

(One of my favourite bits of musical trivia)

EdRomero · Post by **EdRomero** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:27 am

One of my teachers would post a motivational/educational quote everyday, but she forgot to do it one day right before the students arrived so in a panic she asked for a quote. I gave her, "Now the world don't move to the beat of just one drum. What might be right for you, may not be right for some."

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:57 pm

Wilson Pickett covered the Beatles song Hey Jude, an amazing record that features a guitar outro by Duane Allman. But Pickett thought the lyric was "Hey Jew", and that is how he sung it.

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DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:32 pm

There is no 'greatest guitar solo ever' in my book. I can think of several dozen that I love to hear; lot by Duane. But many put this one on their 'greatest' lists. It's said to be the reason that Clapton wanted Duane to play with him on the legendary album that includes 'Layla.'

The Jew/Jude thing points out an interesting feature of this recording. It was off the cuff. Pickett and Muscle Shoals producer Rick Hall were in the studio but ran out of material they wanted to do. Allman, who at the time was just a session musician (prior to the Allmans), proposed "Hey Jude." He heard how it could sound with him and Wilson and the Muscle Shoals boys digging in. Obviously, he was completely right. This cut was both an artistic and commercial success.

But at the time this proposal was absurd on many levels. Duane Allman was a nobody in this setting. Studio owner and producer Rick Hall, on the other hand, was a complete autocrat who was at the top of his game as a hit-maker and took advice from no one. That's a primary reason for the legendary Muscle Shoals players splitting from him and setting up their own studio across town. The other principal, Wilson Pickett, was a hugely successful hit-making singer. He was said to be displeased with white people telling him what to do, and had a legendary temper. His well-deserved nickname was 'Wicked' Wilson Pickett. At this particular time, the music business veteran Pickett was all about trying to move away from covers and towards material no one had heard before (even if he was not the writer). That was what was getting musicians artistic cred and commercial success around 1968.

So having a low-status, twenty-two year old white boy hippie, whose bands had all failed and who couldn't even get Rick Hall to hire him full time to do session work, tell the combined eminence that was Pickett and Hall to cover a hit song that was being heard by all sentient beings right at that moment, cut by a band that was more famous than Jesus -- well, that wouldn't ordinarily be the way to successfully introducing an idea. Having the song end with what is essentially a one-minute guitar solo, putting the single way beyond what record stations were likely to play on the air, was also not something that would usually be a winner.

But for some reason Pickett bought it. Hall bought it. They went through it with the band. They cut it. Legend has it that it was a single take. Obviously Pickett didn't even have the advantage of singing to a lyrics sheet. It could be that Hall, Allman and the rest didn't catch the Jew/Jude error -- after all, they do sound alike, and the Beatles song had just come out. Perhaps they all thought it was really 'Jew.'

In any event, the song was a big hit for Pickett, and established that he could cut something other than standard R&B and soul songs. Though obviously his version of 'Hey Jude' was drenched with both. Rick Hall got immense credit for yet another musical breakthrough under his direction. Allman got the gig as a full-time session player, and soon the Allman Brothers Band was signed and on their way. Collective genius ensued, including many more 'greatest guitar solos ever.'

Then, just three years later, Duane Allman was in a grave.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:22 am

Great story.

I had a friend in grade 5 or 6 who insisted that the song was about Jews.

His name was Howie Israelson and he thought that a lot of thinks were about Jews.

And man, I can't stand that song. It and "Let It Be" always bugged me.