Grantland

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:22 am

I would be surprised if Lowe is one of the departees. If you are an NBA-only writer, why would you leave ESPN, which has all the TV rights, to go work for HBO? And I thought ESPN made Lowe's columns very visible in their website last year, especially during the playoffs. He'd be taking a big risk moving from the network most associated with the NBA to one which currently has no association whatsoever.

bapo! · Post by **bapo!** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:27 pm

Back in May, Ryan wrote:In any event, Grantland is one my favorite sites on the entire web. The writers are mostly terrific and the presentation is unmatched. Who knows how much of each specific element is Simmons, but the overall spirit most definitely is. If it changes much, I'm worried.

This is still the most relevant post in this thread.

I've been up and down on Grantland over the years. Sometimes I think that it's the best place on the Internet, and other times it annoys me. But every day there's something there that's at least worth reading.

I talk a lot about how much I miss things that aren't there anymore, or aren't as good as they used to be. I'm starting to feel Grantland slipping away, like it doesn't belong to me now, and a different staff and a new readership will eventually push me away.

Wesley Morris is a huge loss. I won't speculate on who the next four might be, but there are any number of writers whom I would miss.

My sadness about all of this is way out of proportion.

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:45 am

Per SI's Richard Deitsch, the four Grantland staffers going over to Simmons are Sean Fennessey, Juliet Litman, Mallory Rubin, and Chris Ryan. All primarily pop culture writers, so the idea that he'd be able to poach people like Lowe/Keri/Barnwell was maybe a little far-fetched.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:47 am

I was way off.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:48 am

Well who gives a shit about them.

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:56 am

Recognized the names, but hadn't really read any of them. Looking over their column headers, it looks like they all specialize in twee-as-fuck overanalysis of pop culture stuff, so basically right up Simmons's alley.

rass · Post by **rass** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:58 am

Read somewhere this morning (Deadspin?) that they're all more editors than writers, so it could end up being more harmful to Grantland in the long run than losing a couple of the bigger name writers.

Post by **brian** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:35 am

rass wrote:Read somewhere this morning (Deadspin?) that they're all more editors than writers, so it could end up being more harmful to Grantland in the long run than losing a couple of the bigger name writers.

Can tell you that it's a hell of a lot easier (though still hard if that makes sense) to replace a great editor than a great writer. Don't know for a fact that they're great editors, but if they are. While not exactly a dime a dozen editing is a skill that can be perfected with time and practice. That's less true for writing.

L-Jam3 · Post by **L-Jam3** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:47 am

Hey Brian, what's your beef with Barnwell? Did you lose to him on a bad beat at Mandalay?

Post by **brian** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:56 am

L-Jam3 wrote:Hey Brian, what's your beef with Barnwell? Did you lose to him on a bad beat at Mandalay?

Had a few friends have run-ins with him when he lived in Vegas and none of them had good things to say about him. Guess he comes off as a whining, preening, self-aggrandizing jerk. (So maybe it makes sense that him and Simmons are such great friends.)

bapo! · Post by **bapo!** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:23 am

Rembert Browne is the latest to leave. He's joining New York Magazine.

The essential Jim Miller is the go-to source, as always. He's written two articles in the past few days for Vanity Fair. He has some gossip, alarmist speculation, and doomsday scenarios. Friday's article. Monday's article.

Discussions on background with Grantland staffers past and present (ESPN executives associated with Grantland declined to talk on the record or on background for this column) reveal that the site is beset by a climate of fear, a cycle of mistrust, and a belief amongst several that staff are “treated like children.” An overall lack of communication with management has been beyond frustrating for the staff. Many heard about Connelly’s appointment on their Twitter feeds—precisely where Simmons had learned of his dismissal.

Since its 2011 founding, Grantland has served as a channel for Simmons to expand the Grantland staff’s distinctive point of view to journalism and criticism, a no-fear zone within the ESPN empire. That privileged position can safely be considered history. There is fear now, not only for the survival of the staff—with still more departures rumored imminent—but also for the survival of Grantland itself, unthinkable as that may have seemed even a year ago. Staff-wide angst continues to grow despite a Herculean effort by ESPN to dispense metrics suggesting traffic on the site is stronger than ever, implicitly arguing that Simmons’s departure had little effect on the almighty numbers.

I skimmed the Twitter timelines of some of the staff and saw a lot of gallows humor. Holly Anderson's summary of Miller's article: 'COLUMN: i’m hearing that dozens of people whose jobs/futures have been dangled over a pit for the past six months might be unhappy.'

rass · Post by **rass** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:46 am

bapo! wrote:Monday's article.

There are numerous other factors that could be analyzed and discussed here, but all would point in the same direction: as great and as valuable as the Simmons contributions to ESPN had been for many years, there were too many holes to be sewn together, and far too much insanity. In fact, ESPN confirmed it received at least one death threat made to an executive after Simmons’s suspension. Clearly, it was time to part ways, but that doesn’t mean the arguments will stop.

puh-lease

bapo! · Post by **bapo!** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:12 am

rass wrote:puh-lease

ESPN confirmed it, rass. They confirmed it!

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:37 am

bapo! wrote:
rass wrote:puh-lease
ESPN confirmed it, rass. They confirmed it!

Considering that the courtroom sketch artist got harassed for having the audacity to make Brady look ugly, I really don't find that to be hard to believe.

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:59 am

I greatly enjoy Zach Lowe's work, but his "Grantland is a website that exists" crap on his most recent podcast with Arnovitz really annoyed me.

All the clutching at pearls about the site is tiresome, considering 350 employees are getting laid off by the WWLIS. I mean, if ESPN wanted to save money, they could just offer contracts to Lowe, Barnwell, Keri, and whoever else in the sports realm they deem worthy to move to the main site, then shutter Grantland. I mean, 538 is still up and apparently the Undefeated is still moving forward, based on a replacement for Whitlock being named. Doesn't the fact that those sites are still at it mean that Grantland is nowhere close to getting the plug pulled?

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:11 am

All those sites are ESPN/ABC/Walt fucking Disney? Shit, media consolidation is worse than I thought.

bapo! · Post by **bapo!** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:22 am

I never hear anything about 538. I know that Grantland was a money-loser, but that ESPN liked keeping it as a prestige project. The same would probably go for 538, but I'm not sure that I'd call it prestigious. What kind of traffic do they get? Could that site be shuttered?

I'm frankly amazed that The Undefeated is still (technically) around. But, like you said, they just hired a new Editor, so there's still a plan in place.

As for the Grantland pearl-clutching, the writers/staffers on the pop-culture side might have reason to worry. A bunch of them have already left, and that wiped out a lot of their podcasts. So, maybe Zach Lowe doesn't have to worry about his job, but a lot of his colleagues might.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:26 am

Grantland was never going to be a money maker and I think ESPN knew that. The mission statement from the get go was no paying for high quality content and little advertising. It's the little indie arm of something like Paramount or whatever else. It doesn't matter if it makes money, it exists to make the oscar bait movies while the tent poles prop up everything.

But when Simmons was let go, ESPN probably lost interest in the "prestige" aspect. I figure the advertising will start soon and be much more agressive.

Post by **brian** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:27 am

I have a guy I went to HS with whom I'm friends with on Facebook who used to work at the WWL (works at BTN now) and I guess most of the cuts were on the TV side and less on the web side. Content editors, producers, that kind of thing.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:21 pm

I'm pretty sure Undefeated named an editor recently. Someone highly respected from the Washington Post.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:22 pm

I predict Grantland will be a shell of itself, if there at all, and there's going to be one hell of a Simmons-centric oral history.

I also think that it will be very highly regarded in hindsight.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:59 am

7th HS football player dies this year.

Smith is the seventh high school football player to die this year. This seems like a horrifyingly high number, but, as The Huffington Post points out, this year is on track to be a normal year, statistically speaking. A crucial stat from their report is that only 37% of high schools employ full-time athletic trainers, who can be critical in quickly diagnosing injuries.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:33 am

mister d wrote:7th HS football player dies this year.

Smith is the seventh high school football player to die this year. This seems like a horrifyingly high number, but, as The Huffington Post points out, this year is on track to be a normal year, statistically speaking. A crucial stat from their report is that only 37% of high schools employ full-time athletic trainers, who can be critical in quickly diagnosing injuries.

The point about a lack of athletic trainers is an interesting one. I'm surprised there aren't more deaths in college and professional football (there was one in the Arena League about 10 years ago, but I don't recall any others in my lifetime), and the presence of on-site trainers may have a lot to do with that.

The QB from New Jersey who died earlier this fall died from a ruptured spleen. Based on the stories I read about him, it didn't sound like he got medical attention until he collapsed on the sideline, which was at least a little while after he took the hit. You wonder if a full-time trainer would've diagnosed the potential severity earlier and gotten him to a hospital earlier.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:43 pm

I am definitely a Simmons apologist, but holy shit are Juliet Littman and Chris Ryan annoying. They guest hosted his pod today.

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:56 pm

govmentchedda wrote:I am definitely a Simmons apologist, but holy shit are Juliet Littman and Chris Ryan annoying. They guest hosted his pod today.

I once got about a minute into their NBA After Dark podcast or whatever it was called and gave up. Saw this one on my feed today and decided to pass.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:01 pm

Gone

http://espnmediazone.com/us/espn-statem ... grantland/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rass · Post by **rass** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:04 pm

Brontoburglar wrote:Gone

http://espnmediazone.com/us/espn-statem ... grantland/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh no! Someone add the ellipsis to the thread title!

Post by **brian** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:08 pm

This just frees up more resources for 24/7 reporting of everything the Patriots do. It's what Simmons would have wanted.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:08 pm

That pretty much sucks. That was a really nice site for several years. Eff ESPN and eff Simmons, I guess, for what led to this.

And I am in mourning over losing Ask the Maester. And Greenwald's pieces. And Lowe. And a lot more.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:18 pm

What's sportsfrog dot com's recruiting budget this year?

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:21 pm

Prob too low. But maybe we can pool resources for Ask the Maester once a month during GoT season.

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:26 pm

To just close down such a popular brand is fucking stupid. (And I was not a big fan/reader of the site.)

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/grantland.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:29 pm

howard wrote:To just close down such a popular brand is fucking stupid. (And I was not a big fan/reader of the site.)

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/grantland.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Literally, that was the only reason I end up on an espn web presence anymore. Their main site has long since sucked and nothing behind their paywall has been worth actually paying for.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:30 pm

tennbengal wrote:
howard wrote:To just close down such a popular brand is fucking stupid. (And I was not a big fan/reader of the site.)

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/grantland.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Literally, that was the only reason I end up on an espn web presence anymore. Their main site has long since sucked and nothing behind their paywall has been worth actually paying for.

That graph might as well have Simmons' head sliding down the hill, however. I had no idea his departure led to that.

L-Jam3 · Post by **L-Jam3** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:37 pm

Help me out here. The press release says that they are keeping the staffers on and allowing them to continue to contribute content on other platforms. Which leads to two questions:

1. If everyone is staying on including writers, filmmakers, and editors, how expensive could it be to keep a web address and keep the content there? (I think personally, along with anyone over the age of eight, that they're full of shit that they're keeping them all, but for the sake of argument here that they are).

2. If they are killing it off completely and they cut people, if these people are that good it really shouldn't be too hard to find new outlets. I don't think anyone here read every writer on there, right? I liked Barnwell, the basketball guys, Andy Greenwald, and I could tolerate Jonah Keri as long as he wasn't waxing nostalgic about the Expos (Baisez les Expos!). The other pop culture bullshit writers, Lambert et al., I ignored. If fans were that rampant, they are following them on Twitter to their new employers. So where's the concern?

Post by **brian** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:39 pm

Yeah, I'm sure most of the major writers will land on their feet, though certainly at disparate outlets. Personally, this is just more evidence of how dead journalism really is. In 5 years, it'll basically just be Buzzfeed and TMZ.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:40 pm

I read that sight daily (checked in many times a day) - I really liked the blend of pop culture and sports - and, no, I don't think that will be easily found elsewhere. Deadspin is closest. I liked having it all in once place, and it was a really unique voice with a real collection of talent. I will follow the various writers, but it won't be the same. For me, this really sucks.

rass · Post by **rass** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:41 pm

tennbengal wrote:I read that sight daily (checked in many times a day) - I really liked the blend of pop culture and sports - and, no, I don't think that will be easily found elsewhere. Deadspin is closest. I liked having it all in once place, and it was a really unique voice with a real collection of talent. I will follow the various writers, but it won't be the same. For me, this really sucks.

Been a rough week for you buddy. Sorry. Hopefully things turn around for you starting Monday or so....

Post by **brian** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:44 pm

Yup.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:45 pm

rass wrote:
tennbengal wrote:I read that sight daily (checked in many times a day) - I really liked the blend of pop culture and sports - and, no, I don't think that will be easily found elsewhere. Deadspin is closest. I liked having it all in once place, and it was a really unique voice with a real collection of talent. I will follow the various writers, but it won't be the same. For me, this really sucks.
Been a rough week for you buddy. Sorry. Hopefully things turn around for you starting Monday or so....

I had $1000 on Grantland +10 survives to 2017. It was also a lock - parlay'd with the Dolphins last night.

Also, I didn't have 1/100th the talent of most of the Grantland writers, but given all the years I wrote shit for this site, really respected how good a lot of them were and did enjoy the site. I also hate knowing that once again, Stephen A. Smith and Bayless are the winners in the dumbing down of shit generally.

PS...your boys are a lock. I already covered that in the NFL thread. I am money right now.