Roger Godell's Terrible No Good Bad (Infinity) - the whoopin

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:47 am

The rest of the Ray Rice video is out.

In a fair world, Goodell would be forced to resign.

rass · Post by **rass** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:07 am

I know it's been hashed out over and over, but I'm still shocked at how poorly he (Goodell) handled this.

EdRomero · Post by **EdRomero** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:20 am

rass wrote:I know it's been hashed out over and over, but I'm still shocked at how poorly he (Goodell) handled this.

has he handled anything well or even below average? Because of this footage, Ray McDonald will have a even longer suspension.
yesterday in a radio interview, Jonathan Kraft was praising Goodell for doing such a good job apologizing for fucking up. Just like ESPN pundits praised Rice for his apology. Yeah, forget the victim or tarnishing the league. What really matters is how well you say sorry to the media and other owners.

bfj · Post by **bfj** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:32 am

It is exactly what I expected. She charged him, he hit her, she hit her head on the bar in the elevator and was knocked out.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:35 am

Two thoughts:

1. How on earth was Rice not criminally prosecuted for that? I know his wife didn't want to cooperate with any prosecution, but it's still abundantly clear from the video that Rice was not acting in self-defense.

2. I know that it's probably asking too much of an organization that has built its entire identity around the Stabmaster, but the Ravens should be absolutely ashamed of how they handled this. Putting Rice's wife in front of the media to apologize for getting brutally assaulted was absolutely disgraceful.

rass · Post by **rass** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:39 am

EdRomero wrote:
rass wrote:I know it's been hashed out over and over, but I'm still shocked at how poorly he (Goodell) handled this.
has he handled anything well or even below average? Because of this footage, Ray McDonald will have a even longer suspension.
yesterday in a radio interview, Jonathan Kraft was praising Goodell for doing such a good job apologizing for fucking up. Just like ESPN pundits praised Rice for his apology. Yeah, forget the victim or tarnishing the league. What really matters is how well you say sorry to the media and other owners.

I know, I know, but running a league is so hard sometimes, and this just seemed like a slam dunk that he completely fucked up. There was no downside to a longer suspension and they saw how the Ravens got slammed for their farce of a press conference back in the Spring.

rass · Post by **rass** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:44 am

bfj wrote:It is exactly what I expected. She charged him, he hit her, she hit her head on the bar in the elevator and was knocked out.

I was really expecting to see worse given from her side, so that combined with her impassioned plea for her husband it might be possible to understand WTF Goodell was thinking.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:08 am

Joe K wrote:Two thoughts:

1. How on earth was Rice not criminally prosecuted for that? I know his wife didn't want to cooperate with any prosecution, but it's still abundantly clear from the video that Rice was not acting in self-defense.

I don't understand either.

I know that in some places, whether or not the victim of the assault wants to proceed with prosecution is immaterial. There's an assault captured on video, it doesn't get any clearer than that.

As for Godell, he is clearly a status quo guy - but the league is going to need to change over the next decade or so. When marijuana smoking is viewed as being a more serious offence than PED usage or battering women, there is clearly a problem.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:21 am

bfj wrote:It is exactly what I expected. She charged him, he hit her, she hit her head on the bar in the elevator and was knocked out.

She CHARGED him?

BFJ, respectfully, wtf?

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:22 am

And I didn't even mean to make this thread about Rice's actions, but really more about my amazement with Goodell. But, BFJ, you are not seriously defending Rice, I would hope? Even the callers into 105.7 this morning along with the apologists who host on that station are dealing with reality.

bfj · Post by **bfj** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:34 am

tennbengal wrote:
bfj wrote:It is exactly what I expected. She charged him, he hit her, she hit her head on the bar in the elevator and was knocked out.
She CHARGED him?

BFJ, respectfully, wtf?

Watch the video. She popped him in the face before they get on the elevator. They are close together as they get in, he moves away from her and she comes across the elevator after him. Please understand, I'm not defending what he did. It is horrible. But he doesn't come across to start viciously beating her into unconsciousness.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:35 am

She "charged" him after he slapped her in the face.

Let's cut the suspension to a game!

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:37 am

Yeah TB, watch the video, don't just guess what happened in it. Come on. He only hit her once, not repeatedly like maybe 4 people had suggested.

bfj · Post by **bfj** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:44 am

I know since I'm a ravens fan there's no way for me to say anything and it not sound like I'm defending what he did. So I'll stop. What he did was horrible.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:03 am

I see no less than 15-20 NBA owners publishing their worst emails this morning.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:20 am

This is a Freudian typo in the subject line, right?

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:24 am

Nope. Intentional.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:24 am

Rice: "I made sure the first punch was a knockout punch. I have no tolerance for a man that hits a woman multiple times."

Goodell: "This is good enough for me."

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:28 am

God dammit, now I just watched the video. Rice and Goodell and everyone can just go fuck themselves.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:34 am

mister d wrote:God dammit, now I just watched the video. Rice and Goodell and everyone can just go fuck themselves.

The Ravens front office and PR department is also having a bad day. And their coach. Especially considering their statements and actions over the last five months.

Post by **Shirley** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:37 am

I missed it the first time, so BFJ may have as well. Rice hit her twice. At about :25, he slaps her when they are both standing by the buttons. He then backs up and she turns and comes after her him. That's when he popped her and knocked her out. I don't see how anyone can tell from that video if the second one was a punch or a slap. She went down pretty hard and maybe hit her head on the rail. Judging by how she went down, I'm guessing it was a punch and she was probably out before she banged against the wall/rail.

Really, it's irrelevant though - he hit her hard. It's not like it was a little slap and the rail did the dirty work.

Since nobody has linked it - http://www.tmz.com/2014/09/08/ray-rice- ... nch-video/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:51 am

The only silver lining here is if Stephen A. takes the "she shouldn't have charged him" approach.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:59 am

Joe K wrote:1. How on earth was Rice not criminally prosecuted for that? I know his wife didn't want to cooperate with any prosecution, but it's still abundantly clear from the video that Rice was not acting in self-defense.

He got into a diversionary program that allowed him to avoid trial.

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:06 am

The only issue I have (and I am not real interested in seeing the video) is that fact that the video has changed things so much. Guess that's just the way it works but its still really really bad even if you do it at home with no video recording. As for the punishment, I think Goodell was in line with most criminal outcomes for a first timer and witness recant. I would assume that most similar domestic assaults get pled thorough some sort of alternative plea/sentencing.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/battery-ch ... -ge/nhGcz/
http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/sto ... /15125163/

Goodell is going to find it difficult to judge suspensions in future cases. In the absence of a video like this, it will be difficult to find the truth, at least to a level that justifies million dollar fines and 6 game suspensions. I am sure he will err on the side of the public image but I really think he will find these determinations difficult. Two people saying the same thing (lies) vs some sort of medical evidence will be tough especially once they dump a truckload of billable hours at it. Throw in some organized crime/gambling defense and im sure the backgrounds of these wonderful young women wont be so pristine. Really Rice and the Ravens and his wife spun this about as positively as you could hope until the NFL acted. The same thing will happen in a closed hearing (assuming there is one). Id be interested in knowing what the standards of proof are under the agreement and what type of procedure the nfl will use.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:08 am

mister d wrote:The only silver lining here is if Stephen A. takes the "she shouldn't have charged him" approach.

Pretty sure Whoopi already took this approach.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:11 am

And here we go. It had been reported that the NFL "had access" to the same evidence that police did. The NFL just released a statement saying it did not see the video.

testuser2 · Post by **testuser2** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:20 am

The Ravens may want to finally delete this... https://twitter.com/Ravens/status/469918292061061120

Baltimore Ravens Verified account ‏@Ravens

Janay Rice says she deeply regrets the role that she played the night of the incident.

2:10 PM - 23 May 2014

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:21 am

That's pretty weak even if true. As I understand this story, the fact that he hit her was not in question, so what exactly would the video have added from an evidence standpoint? "This is what a dude hitting a woman in an elevator looks like." Okay.

It adds shock value, of course, but that's really not what decisions should be based on.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:21 am

By the way guys, lay off BFJ for saying that's what he expected. He dragged her out of the elevator unconscious. Of course, what happened inside the elevator was going to be horrible. When this first happened, I saw something on Facebook from some Raven's site about it where BFJ was absolutely laying into all of the Raven fans that were trying to trivialize this. So yeah, you don't need to do the whole righteous indignation thing here like the time you tried to make me look like a rape apologist for suggesting that I'd have someone block the bathroom door even if I was having consensual sex.

rass · Post by **rass** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:22 am

via Deadspin

Peter King, July wrote:There is one other thing I did not write or refer to, and that is the other videotape the NFL and some Ravens officials have seen, from the security camera inside the elevator at the time of the physical altercation between Rice and his fiancée.

Peter King, today wrote:If league officials saw this video before issuing the two-game ban for Rice, all the scorn that's been heaped on Roger Goodell and his colleagues will be deserved.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:24 am

I don't see anyone laying into BFJ, I was clarifying what he was saying. And, he is correct, it really doesn't do any good to parse the video.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:26 am

I can't believe there is anything to debate on this. She stepped towards him, sure, but that doesn't give him a reason to unload on her. Fuck, that punch took her off her feet. It kind of looks like he spit on her, maybe twice. When she first walks past him in the hallway, it looks like he spits on her, and she turns and slaps him. He followed her into the elevator, which escalates in my mind. It also looks like he either spit or got in her face in the elevator. It then looks like he slapped her, leading her to charge at him. No two ways about this, he brutally beat his fiancee. I'd love to know what was said between the security guy standing in the elevator doorway and Rice. Was he playing it off that she was drunk and passed out? Either way, why didn't they call an ambulance? Who were the other people milling around until she regained consciousness.

Did Goodell have this tape when he made his decision? The league needs some flexibility in suspending players. Not all domestic abuse accusations are the same, just like testing positive for a minuscule amount of marijuana which very likely was the result of second hand smoke shouldn't be treated the same as taking PEDs.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:28 am

Rex wrote:That's pretty weak even if true. As I understand this story, the fact that he hit her was not in question, so what exactly would the video have added from an evidence standpoint? "This is what a dude hitting a woman in an elevator looks like." Okay.

It adds shock value, of course, but that's really not what decisions should be based on.

This is how I feel too. Because while this removes any doubt surrounding what happened, there wasn't much doubt for many people, especially those on this board.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:30 am

Rex wrote:That's pretty weak even if true. As I understand this story, the fact that he hit her was not in question, so what exactly would the video have added from an evidence standpoint? "This is what a dude hitting a woman in an elevator looks like." Okay.

It adds shock value, of course, but that's really not what decisions should be based on.

You (if you are Goodell) can always construct the most favorable possible blind-eye version of a story if you only know the basic outline versus seeing the video. "She drunkenly charged him and he fended her off, accidentally knocking her into the rail ..." is enough when you really, really want to believe the best case scenario. I get the whole seeing the video / hearing the words shouldn't tangibly alter things, but it does. I intellectually know how meat gets into my grocery store but I'd be a vegetarian if I actually saw it happen.

howard · Post by **howard** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:31 am

testuser2 wrote:The Ravens may want to finally delete this... https://twitter.com/Ravens/status/469918292061061120

Baltimore Ravens Verified account ‏@Ravens

Janay Rice says she deeply regrets the role that she played the night of the incident.

2:10 PM - 23 May 2014

The role of speedbag

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:32 am

(That last part refers to my reaction. My hatred of Rice increased today even though my on paper recap of what I thought happened wouldn't have changed one bit. The video makes it worse.)

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:35 am

But I don't think the NFL's position here was "we don't think it happened" or "maybe the rail knocked her out", was it? Correct me if I'm wrong. I thought they handed out the suspension under the assumption that he knocked her out in an elevator.

So now their position is "well we knew that he knocked a woman out in an elevator, we just didn't realize it would be graphic and disturbing"?

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:35 am

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:48 am

Rex wrote:That's pretty weak even if true. As I understand this story, the fact that he hit her was not in question, so what exactly would the video have added from an evidence standpoint? "This is what a dude hitting a woman in an elevator looks like." Okay.

It adds shock value, of course, but that's really not what decisions should be based on.

Before the video, there was a chance that his fiancee was actually attacking him and he say took a few punches first. That chance is now gone, as he slaps her first and she charges but doesn't throw any punches. Nobody really thought that he instigated the physical nature of the altercation...until now.

I think this video makes him look much worse than he did prior to its release.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:40 am

I can only hope that she is playing the long game - that she is waiting until the time is right to sue him for divorce and bleed him dry.