The Official Swamp Dating Thread

Post by **Shirley** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:18 pm

Nah, I'm with DC on this one. Too many folks were way to quick to call this chick "crazy" based on some pretty vague descriptions by bronto of fairly benign behavior (going in another room is far from an extreme reaction).

That said, I think the right call is to not go further with the relationship - she and the brother's fiancee don't get along and probably won't start too. Clearly that's a big problem here and it's probably best to end things now before too much is invested. That doesn't make her crazy though. (maybe it's the young fiancee who is the problem)

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:28 am

I think going into another room away from your boyfriend's family during a family get together is a pretty classic passive aggressive move. She was trying to get Bronto to choose her over them in microcosm at that point.

Sure, there may have been a real slight in the past, but she was not acting like a 32-year-old should have, IMO.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:11 am

Not a bad point - "Crazy" may be too harsh a term, but all of us filter these stories through the prism of what we have experienced.

But substitute "unpleasant," "petty," and/or "self-absorbed" and you have less disparaging terms that still mean a long-term relationship with this person will not be as rewarding as you'd have liked.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:36 am

DC47 wrote:
The Sybian wrote:I hear what you are trying to say, but how does Bronto continue to date a 32 year old woman-child who sulks in a bedroom because she felt slighted, then continues to hide from Bronto's brother, who he is obviously very close to, and expects him to choose her over his brother. After only dating for 3 months. I know there are a lot of families a lot more dysfunctional than the scene Bronto laid out, but I see nothing wrong with advising Bronto to walk away from someone who can't or won't deal with a minor conflict, instead choosing to blow it up into an enormous deal by hiding like a petulant child. Are some families extremely fucked up? Yeah, and I would strongly advise a friend not to get entangled in the mess.
First, you assume that Bronto is an objective reporter.

Second, you assume that he truly understands what was going on in a potentially very complex multi-party emotional situation.

I wouldn't hold either assumption with much certainty. I wouldn't even if I was Bronto.

For example, much of this may be about the relationship between Bronto and GF. The family situation may just be the place that the relationship tension was expressed. Just as an example, as I know nothing about the people involved, it is possible that this is largely about how the GF perceives she is treated by Bronto. Could it be that she sees herself as less respected than she'd like? And that she sees him as having ties to his family that are so strong as to be child-like, requiring submission to the family dynamic from a serious GF? That's just one scenario. I can imagine dozens in which the fiancee v. GF battle is really a secondary factor in what's going on.

Further, no one has a clue as to how Bronto feels about the GF, prior to the family conflict. I don't see him expressing anything particularly revealing about this. Does everyone who comments believe they just intuitively know, even so? Shouldn't this play a role in figuring out how quickly to cut bait rather than fish (e.g., time plus couples therapy)?

Finally, is it actually hard to imagine that Bronto may not have actually approached the upset girlfriend in an open, supportive manner? "Open" would include being open to criticisms of his family, and even his treasured brother? This is real life. Many of us are less than perfect. Sometimes a lot less than that. The dynamic I'm describing above is an extremely common case. There are others that may be in play.

A group of males who know so little about the situation and who so quickly declare the girlfriend to be a crazy drama queen who should be dumped pretty much perfectly fits the cliche of emotionally-constricted males who fear complex relationships and complex emotional situations. It might be fun to give off-the-cuff advice from this point of view. But it doesn't strike me as being all that kind to Bronto. I wouldn't approach a 'real person' this way -- and despite the internet mediation, he's real to me. I wouldn't take this approach even if, in the short term, it made Bronto feel good to have others endorse a 'dump the crazy girlfriend' impulse.

People struggling to become mature about romantic relationships shouldn't be impulsive, even if internet bros are all about this. Perhaps especially if they are.

This is the internet, uninformed extreme kneejerk reactions is what we are supposed to do. You make a good point, I'm sure the girl has a much different take on events, but I tend to doubt she has an acceptable explanation for hiding from the fiancee. At 32 yo, you have to be mature enough to deal with the fiancee here. The fiancee isn't leaving the picture, and Bronto sees his brother several times a week. She has to get past it if there is any remote chance of Bronto staying with her. I will agree calling her crazy is overreacting without having been there or hearing her side.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:48 am

Did anyone actually say crazy other than me forcing it in as a synonym for "very"? This wasn't crazy, it was potentially selfish and almost definitely immature. And even if the fiance is a problem, she's established, so any girl has to figure out how to get alone with her or properly ignore her. Running away or trying to force cutting off contact as a tandem isn't an option unless he wants to take the BRO out of BROnto.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:26 pm

Update!

So after attempting to figure things out -- and at times feeling like there was some progress made -- it's apparent there was none.

I won't get into the details, but it was evident that there was not going to be a change in how she felt regarding my family or my brother's fiance. She was invited to Christmas Eve dinner at my parents' house and she declined. She subsequently invited me to dinner at her friend's house (who I have never met) and then wasn't receptive when I attempted to explain that if she was uncomfortable at my parents' on Christmas Eve, how was I supposed to be comfortable at the house of a group of people I've never met while my parents are having dinner without me because she doesn't want to be with them?

That ended in an argument and her storming off to work on the morning of the 23rd. I haven't seen her since. I think she's with her family (I certainly hope so). I don't see this advancing any further and yeah, the timing royally sucks. But as far as I'm concerned, the Christmas issue (I tried to explain that we didn't have to spend Christmas together given that we've only been dating since September, but alas... she was hell-bent on trying to do that) and the ones with my family were symptoms of problems that would have flared up at some point anyway. It's better this happened now, even if it was at the holidays, than as we got further down the road.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:42 pm

Brontoburglar wrote:I think she's with her family (I certainly hope so). I don't see this advancing any further and yeah, the timing royally sucks.

Had you already bought her a Christmas Present?

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Sat Dec 26, 2015 10:17 pm

DaveInSeattle wrote:
Brontoburglar wrote:I think she's with her family (I certainly hope so). I don't see this advancing any further and yeah, the timing royally sucks.
Had you already bought her a Christmas Present?

Oh of course. And I know what she got me and it is pretty damn cool!

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:46 pm

Was it intercourse?

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:28 am

mister d wrote:Was it intercourse?

maybe

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:26 pm

Updated: I'm getting married in Vietnam. Date is set for April 17.

She's really awesome and I'm excited. And also scared too. It's a long road ahead, marrying, getting her here, helping her with her English and adapting to life here.

-----

I've been listening to the 2nd season of Start Up. Podcast recommended by NonLinear FC.

It's crazy how it went from a blind date matchmaking business to their clients demanding pictures. Selling the possibly of love is crazy when people are so judgmental. It's probably better for women as they don't get bombarded by 1000 messages but they probably still get wrong matches.

Post by **brian** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:28 pm

Wow, congratulations!

Keg · Post by **Keg** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:30 pm

Congrats, Degen. Glad to hear everything is going well.

Post by **Shirley** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:37 pm

degenerasian wrote:Updated: I'm getting married in Vietnam. Date is set for April 17.

She's really awesome and I'm excited. And also scared too. It's a long road ahead, marrying, getting her here, helping her with her English and adapting to life here.

-----

I've been listening to the 2nd season of Start Up. Podcast recommended by NonLinear FC.

It's crazy how it went from a blind date matchmaking business to their clients demanding pictures. Selling the possibly of love is crazy when people are so judgmental. It's probably better for women as they don't get bombarded by 1000 messages but they probably still get wrong matches.

Holy shit! How well do you know this woman?

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:40 pm

Congrats degen. Know you had a lot of ups and downs in this area, so glad to hear you found someone who sounds great.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:45 pm

Congrats Dgen!

(though I hope she's an Oilers fan.)

rass · Post by **rass** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:45 pm

congrats degen

BSF21 · Post by **BSF21** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:49 pm

They say when you know you know. Congrats Degen.

Don't worry too much about us. The Swamp should really only need 40-50 seats and we can BYOB. We'll bring snacks for the table.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:56 pm

Congrats Degen!

And I can't believe I'm the first to ask this...but how tall is she?

BSF21 · Post by **BSF21** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:58 pm

DaveInSeattle wrote:Congrats Degen!

And I can't believe I'm the first to ask this...but how tall is she?

Surely you don't want him to tell us before we get the pool going...

Put me down for 20$ on 4'11 w/heels.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:03 pm

hahaha sure start the pool..

you can also start the pool on what the main course of a Vietnamese wedding is.

duff · Post by **duff** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:09 pm

degenerasian wrote:hahaha sure start the pool..

you can also start the pool on what the main course of a Vietnamese wedding is.

Poontang, right?

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:32 pm

Happy for you degen - congrats.

Post by **brian** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:42 pm

Pho and bahn mi? (My Anglo-centric exposure to Vietnamese cuisine is obviously showing.)

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:52 pm

Damn I love Bahn Mi, Vietnamese coffee is pretty damn tasty as well.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:10 pm

those are the 3 vietnamese exports

Pho
Banh Mi
Ca Phe Sua Da

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:20 pm

degenerasian wrote:those are the 3 vietnamese exports

Pho
Banh Mi
Ca Phe Sua Da

And, wives!

Congratulations and best wishes, degen!

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:27 pm

Excellent news - Canada needs more hot women!

A lifetime of happiness for you both.

TT2.0 · Post by **TT2.0** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:58 pm

degenerasian wrote:hahaha sure start the pool..

you can also start the pool on what the main course of a Vietnamese wedding is.

"inter"??

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:44 pm

Wow, congrats. I don't envy you trying to figure out the seating chart, or who sits on which side of the aisle.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:34 pm

The Sybian wrote:Wow, congrats. I don't envy you trying to figure out the seating chart, or who sits on which side of the aisle.

cerrano · Post by **cerrano** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:54 pm

well, that escalated quickly.

congrats!

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:41 pm

The main dish we're choosing for the reception is HOT POT

http://www.theadora.vn/thuc-don-tiec-cuoi-nguyen-kiem/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We're probably choosing the the seafood one from Bundle #9.
We can mix and match all the other stuff.

I believe Stewed Beef with Red Wine – Bread is one of them
and Deep Fried Squid Balls gotta have that.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:46 pm

Congrats, man!

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:48 pm

Cousin jokes aren't dead, right?

(congrats)

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:18 pm

degenerasian wrote:The main dish we're choosing for the reception is HOT POT

Come on, man. You are making this too easy.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:25 pm

(by the Dong Phuong Group)

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:23 pm

Brontoburglar wrote:Update!

So after attempting to figure things out -- and at times feeling like there was some progress made -- it's apparent there was none.

I won't get into the details, but it was evident that there was not going to be a change in how she felt regarding my family or my brother's fiance. She was invited to Christmas Eve dinner at my parents' house and she declined. She subsequently invited me to dinner at her friend's house (who I have never met) and then wasn't receptive when I attempted to explain that if she was uncomfortable at my parents' on Christmas Eve, how was I supposed to be comfortable at the house of a group of people I've never met while my parents are having dinner without me because she doesn't want to be with them?

That ended in an argument and her storming off to work on the morning of the 23rd. I haven't seen her since. I think she's with her family (I certainly hope so). I don't see this advancing any further and yeah, the timing royally sucks. But as far as I'm concerned, the Christmas issue (I tried to explain that we didn't have to spend Christmas together given that we've only been dating since September, but alas... she was hell-bent on trying to do that) and the ones with my family were symptoms of problems that would have flared up at some point anyway. It's better this happened now, even if it was at the holidays, than as we got further down the road.

This is just a weird situation.

Because of the holidays and my traveling, we didn't talk in person until Jan. 2. I expressed how I couldn't move forward because of what had been going on and how we couldn't resolve disputes, etc. It was not the answer she wanted and at the time she said she had "pushed me away." It was a bit perplexing, and there was no explanation for why she had when I had asked.

Over that past month she had been in a different spot. I figured it was because of the tension that started on Thanksgiving and her unhappiness with my attempts to resolve the situation. I asked repeatedly how she was doing when I noticed things were different, etc, and was always given the same response.

After we talked that day and I said I couldn't proceed, she said she wanted to hang out soon. That to me was odd, but I said OK because she wanted to use a gift card she had to a place in KC. OK, sure, we can go have a fun evening (we did it in the middle of the week) even if this is a little odd.

She tells me that night that she had gone to the doc early in December and got some potentially bad news (the big C was a possibility). She had a follow up appt the next day to do further tests. She was understandably scared, and I comforted her the best I could. However, I didn't understand why she didn't say anything about it. It was because she didn't want to ruin the holidays. Which kind of ended up happening anyway but that is beside the point. And the pushed away comment had more context.

It was fairly clear that the desire was the news would sway my feelings into reconsidering. I was taken aback, not by that desire, but by the news and said I'd be there but not in the former capacity. Because the whole thing felt odd to me -- not only did I not find out about this while we were dating, I didn't find out about it during our explicitly set up conversation to see where we stood.

That last sentence has haunted me this entire time. I can't get over the timing.

Anyway, she was set to find out at the end of this week. She sent me an email five days ago to get some things "off her chest." And again, it was clear that she was disappointed it didn't change anything.

We exchanged emails twice over the course of the last five days. In my last response yesterday, I flat out asked her what the diagnosis was. The big C had been mentioned twice in the previous email, but in a roundabout way. There was no "this is it," rather references to it being bigger than our arguments. She responded back tonight and ignored the question (making no references to anything) and accused me of overcomplicating the situation after I had told her I didn't agree with not being told earlier and I had made my decision based off the fact that I couldn't figure out an extenuating reason why things had changed.

At this point, I'm done responding. It's apparent I'm not going to find out the answer to the good news/bad news question unless I jump back into things, and it's something I simply can't do.

I'm willing to be there (again, not in that capacity), but at the same time, not when I'm being blamed for my handling of a situation that I didn't know about. I feel crappy about the whole thing because this looming possibility was clearly the reason for why all the sudden everything turned into a disagreement.

I'll feel even crappier about the situation if she got bad news. The guilt in that possibility makes it feel like I'm the guy who broke up with a girl who had you-know-what. And it's brutal. But at the same time... I didn't know. It had no bearing on the decision that I made because I had no earthly idea that this was going on. That's what I have to keep reminding myself, no matter how many more emails or texts I'll get. Shutting myself off feels extremely callous and cold.

But it also feels that way to read that I'm the one who's been the bad person. And to be clear, I don't view this as a good/bad or me vs. her scenario. I have no hard feelings and I truly wish the best for her. It just had become clear we weren't going to work.

Anyway... thanks for reading, even if this is a little vague. I appreciate it. I simply needed to vent because this is something I certainly have never dealt with before.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:50 pm

DC47 wrote:It's the response to Bronto's girlfriend that I'm pointing to as problematic. I grant that she was most likely behaving immaturely. However, she may have been responding to a lot more than a few comments from the fiancee. Context matters; life is rarely that simple.

If a relationship matters and things are confusing, it's worth leaning over backwards and then leaning some more to draw out what is really going on with another person. There's often far more complexity than appears to be the case. And it's important to recognize that really communicating can take time. Not just a lot of time spent in one get together. But getting together several times, leaving a lot of space for the other person. Not seeking a quick resolution or making it primarily about your concerns (e.g., 'shunning my family.')

The other person still isn't forthcoming? One hypothesis you have to take seriously is that you are at least part of the problem. You may simply not be seen by at least one person who is close to you as someone with a big enough heart to be genuinely sympathetic. Whatever happens with the relationship, and wherever the causality falls in retrospect, this is something you can learn from, if becoming a better human being is genuinely important to you. That's a much rarer trait than is generally understood.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:05 pm

Even if what she's saying is true, I'd run like hell.