As someone with ancestry scattered across the British isles, I've taken a personal interest in this. On the one hand, I think it would be great for the Scottish national psyche to become fully independent and in control of its destiny, as it was for Ireland; on the other hand, the general upheaval and threatened divestment of British firms if independence happens makes me fear an economic catastrophe and Scotland being set back by decades in the name of blind provincialism.
Though this may have conclusively swayed me:
Fanniebug wrote:
P.S. rass! Dont write me again, dude! You're in ignore list!
From my Quebec experience I don't think the NO vote is in danger yet.
Usually when answering polls the YES side is very enthusiastic! "Fuck yeah we want our freedom!".
The NO side will be muted and will either answer NO or the dreaded UNDECIDED.
When the real vote happens many of those undecideds will turn into NOs. Especially those who make their decision at the ballot box "do we really want to do this? I think the status quo is safe".
Kung Fu movies are like porn. There's 1 on 1, then 2 on 1, then a group scene..
The vote is will get an 80%+ turnout and anyone over 16 can vote. The UK Government in London have gone nuclear and recently sent the 3 main party leaders up north to canvas for votes. This did not go well...
The BBC have really let themselves down with their pro-union take on everything. If the Youth vote gets out it could be very close indeed.
I see no reason to believe the panicked lies and threats from the UK ruling class that have suddenly exploded forth since the poll result that this election might actually threaten their interests. It has been quite the spectacle.
Why all the promises of greater independence? Didn't the people of Scotland two weeks ago deserve what is now promised? Exactly how will those promises be held to account, after a 'No' vote? What is to guarantee they will be kept?
One analysis I desperately hope is true, is that for every desparate promise and pronouncement of the horrors to come with independence, uttered by some party hack suit dispatched north from London, ten more Yes votes result.
Boy, the banks, The City and the rest of the ruling class will throw a shit fit of gargantuan proportions if the people actually exercise their right to freedom and secession.
I have to figure fear and threats will win out. Hope I am wrong. I hope the people of Scotland take this rare opportunity to secure a degree of freedom from the moneyed powers. The pain will be worth it (because you are gonna feel the pain regardless of union or independence.)
Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.
Those days are gone forever
Over a long time ago
Oh yeah…
howard wrote:I see no reason to believe the panicked lies and threats from the UK ruling class that have suddenly exploded forth since the poll result that this election might actually threaten their interests. It has been quite the spectacle.
Why all the promises of greater independence? Didn't the people of Scotland two weeks ago deserve what is now promised? Exactly how will those promises be held to account, after a 'No' vote? What is to guarantee they will be kept?
One analysis I desperately hope is true, is that for every desparate promise and pronouncement of the horrors to come with independence, uttered by some party hack suit dispatched north from London, ten more Yes votes result.
Boy, the banks, The City and the rest of the ruling class will throw a shit fit of gargantuan proportions if the people actually exercise their right to freedom and secession.
I have to figure fear and threats will win out. Hope I am wrong. I hope the people of Scotland take this rare opportunity to secure a degree of freedom from the moneyed powers. The pain will be worth it (because you are gonna feel the pain regardless of union or independence.)
It really is surprising how panicky the Union is.
Again using the Quebec example (that's all I know). The last poll before the 1995 referendum was a much bigger OUI lead then this one and Canada didn't budge.
Kung Fu movies are like porn. There's 1 on 1, then 2 on 1, then a group scene..
Tom 1860 wrote:The vote is will get an 80%+ turnout and anyone over 16 can vote. The UK Government in London have gone nuclear and recently sent the 3 main party leaders up north to canvas for votes. This did not go well...
The BBC have really let themselves down with their pro-union take on everything. If the Youth vote gets out it could be very close indeed.
Sending a Tory Prime Minister to convince the Scots to vote No is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Also, for once that animatronic crone Queen Elizabeth did the right thing by not pleading with the Scots to stay in the UK.
Simply put, the Scots hate the Tories and have very little patience for the royal family.
"beautiful, with an exotic-yet-familiar facial structure and an arresting gaze."
This is going to be interesting. A Brit friend of mine claimed that Scotland is like New Mexico in the U.S. - a state that receives much more federal money than it contributes. Meaning that if Scotland secedes, there will be serious economic consequences to them.
sancarlos wrote:This is going to be interesting. A Brit friend of mine claimed that Scotland is like New Mexico in the U.S. - a state that receives much more federal money than it contributes. Meaning that if Scotland secedes, there will be serious economic consequences to them.
Yup, Cameron re-iterated this today. If you leave, you are totally cut off. No more healthcare, old age, pension, pound or passport. You're out.
Compare the Quebec question and the Scotland question
1995 Quebec: Do you agree that Quebec should become sovereign after having made a formal offer to Canada for a new economic and political partnership within the scope of the bill respecting the future of Quebec and of the agreement signed on June 12, 1995?
(Acceptez-vous que le Québec devienne souverain, après avoir offert formellement au Canada un nouveau partenariat économique et politique, dans le cadre du projet de loi sur l'avenir du Québec et de l'entente signée le 12 juin 1995 ?)
2014 Scotland: Should Scotland become an independent country?
Kung Fu movies are like porn. There's 1 on 1, then 2 on 1, then a group scene..
sancarlos wrote:This is going to be interesting. A Brit friend of mine claimed that Scotland is like New Mexico in the U.S. - a state that receives much more federal money than it contributes. Meaning that if Scotland secedes, there will be serious economic consequences to them.
Like most of the American West: "Get out, and send more money!"
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
I don't think New Mexico is even in the top 10 of the states that have the highest disparity between federal spending and contributions to federal taxes. Last I saw like 9 of the top 10 were southern/southeastern states -- essentially the entire SEC basically.
Remember, no country has ever become prosperous after becoming independent from England. (yes, I get that the circumstances are vastly different)
I think degen's use of Quebec in '95 as an analog is pretty good. The relative vagueness of the question on the Scotland ballot is notable though. It seems like those pushing hardest for independence here are more fixated on hating England than on offering any plan of governance once the split is made.
Gut feeling is that the "No" vote wins, and by a bigger margin than most pools have been showing, driven by undecideds and those who have kept their opinions private, along with some last-minute cold feet by some of the "Yes" voters. The question then becomes how long this poisons the well for any future independence efforts. Has there been any serious push out of Quebec since?
New Mexico is an odd choice for a state to compare Scotland to. Unless you consider meth the American version of Buckfast.
Fanniebug wrote:
P.S. rass! Dont write me again, dude! You're in ignore list!
Johnny Carwash wrote:Remember, no country has ever become prosperous after becoming independent from England. (yes, I get that the circumstances are vastly different)
I think degen's use of Quebec in '95 as an analog is pretty good. The relative vagueness of the question on the Scotland ballot is notable though. It seems like those pushing hardest for independence here are more fixated on hating England than on offering any plan of governance once the split is made.
Gut feeling is that the "No" vote wins, and by a bigger margin than most pools have been showing, driven by undecideds and those who have kept their opinions private, along with some last-minute cold feet by some of the "Yes" voters. The question then becomes how long this poisons the well for any future independence efforts. Has there been any serious push out of Quebec since?
New Mexico is an odd choice for a state to compare Scotland to. Unless you consider meth the American version of Buckfast.
Totally agree. The silent no vote will prevail at the ballot box. And David Beckham has spoken out today, so that gets the teenyboppers.
Quebec had two referendums 1980 and 1995 but nothing since. Mostly because the Quebec economy has gone to shits and the federalists have held power for most of those years. We all are quite fortunate that the OUI side didn't win in 1995 because Quebec would be a 3rd world country with Canada bailing them out. It's a clear warning for Scotland although apparently Scotland has oil.
Kung Fu movies are like porn. There's 1 on 1, then 2 on 1, then a group scene..
The Sybian wrote:The only issue I care about is how this will effect the price of Scotch.
Daughter (turning 14) had a sleepover Friday night. I was locking up all the liquor and ran out of space. Ended up leaving some scotch out under the bar. Figured if they wanted to try it, nothing is going to make a newbie less likely to drink again than scotch, and if she liked it, well, sophisticated palate. Win-win.
Hold on, I'm trying to see if Jack London ever gets this fire built or not.
The Sybian wrote:The only issue I care about is how this will effect the price of Scotch.
Daughter (turning 14) had a sleepover Friday night. I was locking up all the liquor and ran out of space. Ended up leaving some scotch out under the bar. Figured if they wanted to try it, nothing is going to make a newbie less likely to drink again than scotch, and if she liked it, well, sophisticated palate. Win-win.
Genius.
Until everything is less insane, I'm mixing weed with wine.
testuser2 wrote:What is the age for locking up the liquor? I want to have a few more years of easy access. Right now the youngest is superb at retrieving and opening.
We started it when we moved into our new house right as the oldest was 13. Having a bar now, we have more types of liquor than ever before that don't get used within 24 hours of purchase!
Hold on, I'm trying to see if Jack London ever gets this fire built or not.
testuser2 wrote:What is the age for locking up the liquor? I want to have a few more years of easy access. Right now the youngest is superb at retrieving and opening.
We started it when we moved into our new house right as the oldest was 13. Having a bar now, we have more types of liquor than ever before that don't get used within 24 hours of purchase!
AB moves houses and becomes a Gatsby. Don't forget your roots, Mr. McBeam.
Until everything is less insane, I'm mixing weed with wine.
testuser2 wrote:What is the age for locking up the liquor? I want to have a few more years of easy access. Right now the youngest is superb at retrieving and opening.
We started it when we moved into our new house right as the oldest was 13. Having a bar now, we have more types of liquor than ever before that don't get used within 24 hours of purchase!
AB moves houses and becomes a Gatsby. Don't forget your roots, Mr. McBeam.
Hey, when you've got a bar built around the '96 championship floor from the meadowlands, you use it!
Hold on, I'm trying to see if Jack London ever gets this fire built or not.
My second thought was to take up wood whittling, knock out a "r", "z", "y", "z", "e", "w", "s", "k" and an "i", print out a copy of this and head down to Kentucky.
testuser2 wrote:What is the age for locking up the liquor? I want to have a few more years of easy access. Right now the youngest is superb at retrieving and opening.
6th grade.
You can lead a horse to fish, but you can't fish out a horse.
Jeebus, my daughter is almost 14 and ive never locked it up. But she hates that the missus and I drink and she won't even eat meat anymore, she is such a goody goody. It never occurred to me to worry about her friends, but I suppose this a legit concern.
sancarlos wrote:Jeebus, my daughter is almost 14 and ive never locked it up. But she hates that the missus and I drink and she won't even eat meat anymore, she is such a goody goody. It never occurred to me to worry about her friends, but I suppose this a legit concern.
Be careful mentioning a child who doesn't eat meat, you will be berated in this forum for horrible parenting. I first raided the liquor cabinet in 7th grade. First got drunk soon after at a friend's Bar Mitzvah. Unattended open bar, so I sampled a bit of all of the types of liquor . My father caught me with a cup of straight Jack. He took a sniff, gagged and said "don't let your mother see you."
An honest to God cult of personality - formed around a failed steak salesman.
-Pruitt
sancarlos wrote:Jeebus, my daughter is almost 14 and ive never locked it up. But she hates that the missus and I drink and she won't even eat meat anymore, she is such a goody goody. It never occurred to me to worry about her friends, but I suppose this a legit concern.
Be careful mentioning a child who doesn't eat meat, you will be berated in this forum for horrible parenting. I first raided the liquor cabinet in 7th grade. First got drunk soon after at a friend's Bar Mitzvah. Unattended open bar, so I sampled a bit of all of the types of liquor . My father caught me with a cup of straight Jack. He took a sniff, gagged and said "don't let your mother see you."
Syb, your dad is like my dad. He was giving me sips for as long as I remember, and like you I was nipping drinks at an early age. My dad didn't much care. He would let my friends and me drink beer in our house during high school, if their parents were ok with it. When I was 15, a couple of my friends and I were actually busted by the cops for underage drinking. I was suspended from the wrestling team at one point for getting caught drinking. My mum was mortified, but my dad laughed out loud.
The issue got real and a hell of a lot less funny in adulthood when both of my two brothers became alcoholics and one brother (the one who didn't die from drugs) accused my parents for being complicit in their problems for letting them have access to alcohol. I disagree and I defended the old man publicly. I hate the idea of blaming ones parents for ones own failings. But, I do see where my bro is coming from...
