The Swamp

Johnnie wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 4:31 pm Because everything is black and white. There's no such thing as nuance or critical thinking here.

How is “PFT is nice and good but Barstool is bad” not the black and white version of this? The gray, and the shade of it, depends on how nice and good you believe someone can be if they’re the normalizer for an actively shitty org.

mister d wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 8:01 pm

Johnnie wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 4:31 pm Because everything is black and white. There's no such thing as nuance or critical thinking here.

How is “PFT is nice and good but Barstool is bad” not the black and white version of this? The gray, and the shade of it, depends on how nice and good you believe someone can be if they’re the normalizer for an actively shitty org.

So you're on the side that thinks PFT's entire role in being hired and continually employed by Barstool is that he's just a conduit for normalizing their operations? Like...he's in on that racket and is being paid for it?

So there's no world in which a dude wanted to get greater exposure for his shtick and went with Barstool for the ability to blog and act goofy?

Also the "black and white" that I'm espousing is one routed in constant politically correct hypocrisy. "If X works for Barstool, X is always bad because Barstool is bad." That linearly, superficial thinking is toxic.

If after the Air Force I want to intern for Zero Blog Thirty because I could add a retired Air Force voice to their Marine and Army voices already, would that make me a terrible person too if and when I get notoriety enough to be highlighted by Laura Wagner and I'm asked a question about Dave Portnoy and his stupid personality? Because clearly I'd be normalizing Barstool from a military perspective.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 8:49 amSo you're on the side that thinks PFT's entire role in being hired and continually employed by Barstool is that he's just a conduit for normalizing their operations?

No.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 8:49 amSo there's no world in which a dude wanted to get greater exposure for his shtick and went with Barstool for the ability to blog and act goofy?

I think that's exactly what's happening.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 8:49 amAlso the "black and white" that I'm espousing is one routed in constant politically correct hypocrisy. "If X works for Barstool, X is always bad because Barstool is bad." That linearly, superficial thinking is toxic.

You're the one saying "always bad" as a black and white determination. "If X works for Barstool, especially as a public face, X is doing something bad and shouldn't be protected and absolved because s/he seems nice" is the start of the gray discussion of just how much responsibility s/he has in protecting and promoting an actively and intentionally shitty org.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 8:49 amIf after the Air Force I want to intern for Zero Blog Thirty because I could add a retired Air Force voice to their Marine and Army voices already, would that make me a terrible person too if and when I get notoriety enough to be highlighted by Laura Wagner and I'm asked a question about Dave Portnoy and his stupid personality? Because clearly I'd be normalizing Barstool from a military perspective.

I have no idea what Zero Blog Thirty is.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 8:49 am

mister d wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 8:01 pm

Johnnie wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 4:31 pm Because everything is black and white. There's no such thing as nuance or critical thinking here.

How is “PFT is nice and good but Barstool is bad” not the black and white version of this? The gray, and the shade of it, depends on how nice and good you believe someone can be if they’re the normalizer for an actively shitty org.

So you're on the side that thinks PFT's entire role in being hired and continually employed by Barstool is that he's just a conduit for normalizing their operations? Like...he's in on that racket and is being paid for it?

I think it's fair to be ... nuanced ... and believe that he can be a conduit for the normalization of barstool by being complicit vs. "in on it."

So there's no world in which a dude wanted to get greater exposure for his shtick and went with Barstool for the ability to blog and act goofy?

Sure, but by doing so and not speaking out, it's being complicit in that. It's not like you being unable to speak out in the military because you signed up for the military long before Donald Trump became president. You were in the system before the shitty leader came along. The shitty system was in place before PFT came along to Barstool.

Also the "black and white" that I'm espousing is one routed in constant politically correct hypocrisy. "If X works for Barstool, X is always bad because Barstool is bad." That linearly, superficial thinking is toxic.

I find PFT funny a lot of the times. I don't listen to the podcast unless necessary because I don't support Barstool sports just like I don't support Wal-Mart or Dollar General. It's not an active boycott per se, but one that is "easy" to do because I don't have to go out of my way to find alternative places.

It's possible to find PFT funny while also understand that he's the biggest ambassador for a brand based on sexism and misogyny.

If after the Air Force I want to intern for Zero Blog Thirty because I could add a retired Air Force voice to their Marine and Army voices already, would that make me a terrible person too if and when I get notoriety enough to be highlighted by Laura Wagner and I'm asked a question about Dave Portnoy and his stupid personality? Because clearly I'd be normalizing Barstool from a military perspective.

No one is saying PFT is a terrible person. Isn't that claim the definition of the black and white thinking you're claiming to be against?

Jesus Christ Delaware, we did the same damn thing

So, where do you guys stand on a guy being involved in the PR effort at a coal company?

Also, the military isn't a great analogy here. The military serves the country, not the singular personality that is the current president. If you want to say being in the military is bad because the US is itself bad and the military serves to carry out its bad acts, sure. If you want to say being in the military is bad because the current president is bad, that's dumb.

PFT is like if Hope Hicks (I'm reaching for someone likable in this admin) were press sec or something; she might not be (or might not have been prior) a core evil person but she's actively and knowingly serving one for her own gains and shouldn't be absolved of that.

sancarlos wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 10:14 am So, where do you guys stand on a guy being involved in the PR effort at a coal company?

I can't really tell which side you're coming from on this, but the thought has certainly crossed my mind and I'm interested in any responses.

I could be Mr. Stupid, but I wouldn't put that into the inherent evil bucket with capitalism jobs like "marketing cigarettes to kids" or "working to keep regulations soft so your company can continue to flood the market with pain pills", but it definitely has a higher chance to cross the line than most jobs.

Well, Zero Blog Thirty is Barstool's military podcast/blog with Conns, Chaps, and Kate. Kate used to write for Duffel Blog and The Daily Show.

They are folks I pretty much lump in with PFT on the "decent people who work for a shitty company" group.

Essentially, it seems like PFT is being unfairly maligned because of what Barstool is and anything short of complete condemnation of his boss when asked by a Deadspin writer what he feels about him being an asshole is wrong. It just leads me to ask where that line is then drawn because I'm sure plenty of people have shit bosses trying to make a buck and pay bills.

But you understand, because god knows Portnoy understands, that it’s symbiotic, right? Wihout barstool, maybe they don’t have these same high profile positions, but just as importantly without “them”, barstool becomes just another one note (latently-bigoted) TITS N SPORTS blog without broad mainstream appeal. Them being untainted is the problem.

More concisely, separating PFT and barstool then arguing for that separation is their design.

I get that, but it's a pipe dream to envision that all "good people" can only work for "good businesses/organizations."

That's my point.

And the counterpoint is that there's a wide gap between "works for" and "is vital in shaping public perception".

sancarlos wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 10:14 am So, where do you guys stand on a guy being involved in the PR effort at a coal company?

I have no problem with people just doing their job. If a paycheck is needed and that's the only work they can get then so be it.

I’m irrationally excited about the prospect of LeBron dropping a 40 point triple-double tonight while Simmons tries in vain to start one of those lame chants.

Hoo boy:

https://deadspin.com/the-ncaa-is-runnin ... socialflow

Baltimore High Schools Sick of Getting Whupped by Football Coach Who Spends Millions On His Team.

The editorial slant taken by Deadspin writer, Dave McKenna:

On Tuesday, administrators at Mount Saint Joseph High School announced the school was dropping intracity rival St. Frances Academy (SFA) from next season’s football schedule. Kraig Loovis, the Mount Saint Joseph athletic director, and football coach Rich Holzer released a woeful and rather whiny statement saying their school could no longer compete with SFA.

“After much deliberation, there is significant agreement that St. Frances has moved their program to a level that we are not interested in competing at or with,” read the Mount Saint Joseph statement. “If their goal is to be a national power competing against like schools, we wish them success, but that is not our goal nor our mission in athletics.”

...Gets justifiably chided in the comments section:

“a woeful and rather whiny statement”

This seems like inaccurate and inappropriate editorializing, and makes you sound like a chest-thumping fan calling a talk show to declare that these other schools are little pussy bitches (oops, can I say that on-air?) for not dutifully taking their annual 50-0 pounding or spending to keep up.

[...]
No lies detected, and I don’t see any whining either. It’s simple recognition of reality: there is no benefit to either team- and real danger- in playing out a mismatch that vast.

Exactly. It makes no judgment regarding the matter. They are simply acknowledging that St. Frances is quite literally out of their league. If one guy wants to bankroll his program into a national powerhouse, that’s between him and St. Frances parents and faculty. Other schools, especially those without multimillionaire hedge fund benefactors, shouldn’t be expected to keep up with a rich guy’s toy football team.

oh no?

OK, posted that before reading the whole thing. Was worried the KCFS organizer was going to get kicked around, but that wasn't the case.

rass wrote: ↑Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:34 pm oh no?

OK, posted that before reading the whole thing. Was worried the KCFS organizer was going to get kicked around, but that wasn't the case.

I just came here to post that too. When, I read the first sentence, I thought "oh no." But he came out looking not too bad, all things considered. And hey, he made Deadspin!

I am going to apply my Fox News brain to that story and distill it to "Bronto organized a sex assault ring."

Man, who’d have ever thought that dudes obsessed about how hot they look would ever be rapey towards women?

Since we don't have a Barstool thread (fortunately enough probably), this can go here.

Just a toxic, mysogynistic shithole.

brian wrote: ↑Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:36 am Since we don't have a Barstool thread (fortunately enough probably), this can go here.

Just a toxic, mysogynistic shithole.

And Will Leitch adds on, putting some of the blame on himself.

As well he should, though self-awareness is not a quality much in style these days so kudos to him for that if nothing else.

brian wrote: ↑Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:56 pm As well he should, though self-awareness is not a quality much in style these days so kudos to him for that if nothing else.

Yeah, I agree with all the criticisms of Portnoy, who’s awful. And there are other Barstool writers who are pretty bad. But I stop short of agreeing with the position that Silverman and others have taken that anyone who works for Barstool is culpable. Barstool is hardly the only media outlet that’s done shitty things and I’m not going to hold every Deadspin writer accountable for the sins of AJ Daulerio.

It’s also easy in retrospect, now that his podcast has exploded in popularity, to act like Sollenberger (PFT) could’ve chosen to work anywhere. But I doubt that many, if any, other companies would’ve offered him a full-time salaried position as a writer, podcaster and on-camera entertainer back in 2016. Everyone knew he had a funny Twitter feed but I’d be surprised if he really was given comparable opportunities (and compensation) as what he got at Barstool. So I’m not going to fault a guy who probably spent years working boring jobs while trying to break through in the entertainment industry for taking that offer.

You lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas.

Call the waahmbulance for that idiot.

sancarlos wrote: ↑Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:22 pm

I laughed.

Didn't realize how many months ago Rapaport was sent off.

EnochRoot wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:31 pm Swatting? Jesus Titty-Fucking-Christ.

I mean, how’s that not a form of terrorism?

Justice served.

brian wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:02 pm Both Bill Simmons and Malcolm Gladwell suck.

I still like Simmons - but maybe because I only listen to his podcasts with Cousin Sal.

Gladwell lost me a while ago. Once you start questioning his conclusions, his entire schtick falls apart. Now - he did have some great stuff a few years ago, but I think he's just trying to apply his counter-intuitive stance to anything that comes up.

So this Magary thing sounds bad and possibly self-caused?

Yeah. Not sure what is going on but coincided with the live deadspin awards.

Your take was a little darker than mine on that, unless it was informed by info you got elsewhere.

His Bourdain piece in GQ from last week was pretty good.

Yeah, the Bourdain piece was good. Read it this weekend.

rass wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:09 am Your take was a little darker than mine on that, unless it was informed by info you got elsewhere.

Yeah, phrased weird because I didn’t want to use “self-inflicted”, but I wanted to include like a DUI accident or OD or anything like that where he fucked up. Logically(?) you don’t request privacy after a car accident.

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:15 am

rass wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:09 am Your take was a little darker than mine on that, unless it was informed by info you got elsewhere.

Yeah, phrased weird because I didn’t want to use “self-inflicted”, but I wanted to include like a DUI accident or OD or anything like that where he fucked up. Logically(?) you don’t request privacy after a car accident.

I feel like if it was a DUI we would have seen news break on it. He's prominent enough that that info would have come out.

He was in NYC for the Deadspin awards, I guess. And the posting only says "accident". Could be a slip and fall. Could have been struck by a car while crossing a street. Accident encompasses a lot of things, in that context.