The Ebolas

rass · Post by **rass** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:18 pm

Great!

My wife works in public health. I was wondering why she was in such a shitty mood when I came home tonight.

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:30 pm

At the moment I am more concerned with the enterovirus that is developing paralysis in some children. I'm not old enough to remember polio epidemics, but I did see The Roosevelts documentary last week.

ETA: enterovirus, not respiratory virus.

rass · Post by **rass** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:36 pm

That's on her list. I hadn't heard about the paralysis.

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:40 pm

I just heard about it yesterday.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-09-2 ... break.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As public health officials struggle to track and contain a respiratory virus that has hospitalized hundreds of children across the U.S., there are now concerns that the illness may also cause paralysis in some cases.

In Missouri, doctors are investigating whether Enterovirus D68 caused three children to develop paralysis in their limbs this month, Mary Anne Jackson, director of the division of infectious disease at Children’s Mercy Kansas City, said in a telephone interview. In Colorado, officials are examining at least 10 similar cases of severe muscle weakness and limb paralysis, according to Children’s Hospital Colorado.

While the virus has been confirmed in all but 10 states, with 277 cases, the actual number is likely much higher with at least one hospital in Colorado seeing thousands of suspected cases, health authorities said. Testing facilities have been overwhelmed with samples and only the sickest are being tested.

“We don’t even have our finger on the pulse of how extensive this is, we have a guess,” said Jackson, whose hospital has treated more than 700 suspected cases and was among the first to report an outbreak of the virus. “We are in a very dynamic period right now.”

rass · Post by **rass** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:57 pm

howard wrote:At the moment I am more concerned with the enterovirus that is developing paralysis in some children. I'm not old enough to remember polio epidemics, but I did see The Roosevelts documentary last week.

ETA: enterovirus, not respiratory virus.

NJ enterovirus

Close by, too.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:17 pm

Sure, but all I have to do to prevent is tell my 3 year old not to touch every single surface she encounters and then her face. Not worried. [locks up 3 year old forever]

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:42 pm

Can't you catch Ebola only through contact of piss, shit, vomit, etc. of someone who has it?

And has Obama been blamed yet?

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:44 pm

I blame James Monroe. No Liberia, no ebola case.

rass · Post by **rass** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:41 am

Johnnie wrote:Can't you catch Ebola only through contact of piss, shit, vomit, etc. of someone who has it?

Sweat and saliva (and blood obvs) will do it, too.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:46 am

Johnnie wrote:Can't you catch Ebola only through contact of piss, shit, vomit, etc. of someone who has it?

And has Obama been blamed yet?

I believe you're right on the first point.

As for the second - http://nationalreport.net/obamacare-wil ... treatment/

Never heard of this site, but the masthead features pictures of Dumb and Dumber (Cruz & Palin)...

“It’s a grey area right now,” added Martin. “As we’ve just seen the first confirmed case of Ebola in the United States, the ball is in the Obama administration’s court. We hope that in cases where the patient succumbs to the disease that at least part of the hospital stay would be covered. However, they appear unwilling to budge on the ‘survivors’ issue.”
Neither a spokesperson from HealthCare.gov or any of the leading healthcare providers in the United States were available for comment on their plan for dealing with bills resulting from patients with the disease.
- See more at: http://nationalreport.net/obamacare-wil ... KH3wM.dpuf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:23 pm

Pruitt, take a look at the headlines on that site. It is trying to be an Onionized Huffington post.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:34 pm

rass wrote:
Johnnie wrote:Can't you catch Ebola only through contact of piss, shit, vomit, etc. of someone who has it?
Sweat and saliva (and blood obvs) will do it, too.

Right, right. Figured those too. It seems that for a serious disease, it's easily avoidable.

I'm wondering about the extent of how much sweat and saliva. I guess I'll be extra vigilant of people at the gym who have visited Liberia.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:55 pm

The Sybian wrote:Pruitt, take a look at the headlines on that site. It is trying to be an Onionized Huffington post.

Gives me a bit more faith in the world... and a lot less faith in my ability to use the internet.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:06 pm

Every time I see the thread title, it reminds of the "The Amboys" signs on the NJTP. Not that far off, right?

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:06 pm

Well, three cases now. The New York Times had assured us as recently as Tuesday that experts state the chances of ebola reaching the US were extremely small. (That statement has been removed from the NYT website.)

I am anticipating tons of misinformation, for the most part unintentional, on both the overly 'no big deal' and the 'time to freak the fuck out' ends of the spectrum. I have no idea which end is the correct choice at this time.

The dynamics of such an infectious pandemic are beyond my experience and understanding. For the AIDS, I had a front row seat and I know that one, but that was a very different ballgame (much more difficult to transmit, incubation period of years.) But I'm learning as fast as I can.

I have no idea if the approach of isolation, symptomatic and supportive treatment, and allowing the spread to burn itself out is worthy of confidence or of panic. I am not clear on the ease or difficulty of transmissibility (considering some workers in full hazmat gear have been infected.) I do not understand the dynamics of spread in a large, dense city like Dallas or DC as opposed to the villages and modest urban areas of West Africa. I have no idea if the CDC is doing a fantastic job, or are a bunch of bumbling happytalk fools dooming us to a mass death episode (or if their efforts are largely irrelevant.)

The fact that while China and Cuba sent hundreds of doctors to West Africa to work to stop this pandemic, while our government sent thousands of soldiers doesn't fill me with hope. Seems representative of our general mindset.

Regardless of the actual threat level, I anticipate a rapid swing from too-calm complacency to full-on freak out, complete with militarized trampling of laws and freedoms in the interest of public health. (Again, I have no idea if such a freak-out is right or wrong, warranted or not.) Already in Dallas the finger-pointing wrt discharging the patient from the hospital, and authorities not allowing a cleanup crew to properly dispose of contaminated materials are signs of freak out.

I bet we in the developed world will have our own behavioral answers to the irrational violence directed against aid workers and hospitals in Senegal and Liberia seen in the past weeks. Same level of irrationality, different flavor of expression is my guess.

That we as a society, and our governing authorities, are going to act stupid is a pretty easy and safe guess. Now the tough guess--how bad is this gonna get? With minimal information, knowledge about such things nor experience, I'll wild-ass it that it will be scary but not too bad, a few hundred deaths before burning out. And the resultant panic will have significant economic and other societal bad effects, but will be blamed for much much more should this pandemic coincide with the next phase of financial panic and collapse.

Now, baseball!

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:13 pm

Reagan basically told all non-gays that they could fuck away without having to worry about teh AIDS. I want to call in to Rush.

SportsDoc · Post by **SportsDoc** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:36 pm

Howard obviously will know more, but is this not transmitted by any bodily fluids, and not through the air, per se (though a cough or sneeze aerosol could transmit it also by way of saliva)? Is it not also contracted through direct contact of the recipient's bodily fluids, which would include open sores, eyes, nose, mouth, anus and genitals?

If so, worry is potential to get contaminant on your hand, for instance, and then spread by touching your eyes, nose or mouth, for instance. Biggest concern is the 21 day incubation time. The longer the incubation, the more it could potentially be spread by a contaminated person before that person can be isolated.

HIV, as a comparison, if memory serves, cannot be transmitted by saliva alone. It requires much more direct contact, and as such is easier to isolate and contain.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:36 pm

Conspiracy theory: we're involved with this solely so we can figure out how to treat symptoms and thus monetize the treatment.

Also, didn't some doctor fly into Atlanta a couple months back, get cured, and then fly back to continue teasing the infected?

Shouldn't the real worry begin when people start dropping dead unexpectedly and the zombie apocalypse starts?

Post by **Shirley** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:41 pm

As I understand it though, Ebola isn't really contagious until symptoms begin to show. That's a huge difference from HIV.

With this guy in Dallas, they can (hopefully) find everyone he was in relatively close contact with after he got sick. If you quarantine them before they show signs, they can't spread the disease even if they come down with it.

I'm gonna guess the number of folks who catch it here is under 10.

SportsDoc · Post by **SportsDoc** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:09 pm

Shirley wrote:As I understand it though, Ebola isn't really contagious until symptoms begin to show. That's a huge difference from HIV.

With this guy in Dallas, they can (hopefully) find everyone he was in relatively close contact with after he got sick. If you quarantine them before they show signs, they can't spread the disease even if they come down with it.

I'm gonna guess the number of folks who catch it here is under 10.

Depending on the symptoms.

Low grade fever, cough, muscle aches, lethargy are all symptoms of many maladies that are not life threatening. If those are the same or similar early symptoms of Ebola, a lot can happen before a person ends up seeking medical care.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:44 pm

Shirley wrote:As I understand it though, Ebola isn't really contagious until symptoms begin to show. That's a huge difference from HIV.

With this guy in Dallas, they can (hopefully) find everyone he was in relatively close contact with after he got sick. If you quarantine them before they show signs, they can't spread the disease even if they come down with it.

I'm gonna guess the number of folks who catch it here is under 10.

Completely agree. There may be additional separate cases that come in, but the actual spread from this guy will be under 10, if any. Johnnie posted on FB a fantastic Fox and Friends clip. No matter how many times the expert said there is nothing to fear, the idiot brigade kept throwing out scenarios and saying, "so we should freak the fuck out, right!" Colbert had on the director of communicable diseases (or some such title) from Weill Cornell Hospital in NY. That guy said you basically have to physically touch the patient and smear his blood over your face to contract the virus. He said that in Liberia, the family handles the body of their dead relative, which is causing the spread.

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:34 pm

The Sybian wrote:Colbert had on the director of communicable diseases (or some such title) from Weill Cornell Hospital in NY. That guy said you basically have to physically touch the patient and smear his blood over your face to contract the virus. He said that in Liberia, the family handles the body of their dead relative, which is causing the spread.

This is a good example of misinformation. This is absolutely false. I suppose the infected NBC cameraman smeared the blood of his dead cousin on his face, between taking 'B' roll footage. The most simple application of known facts makes such a statement obviously flawed.

'Experts' will smugly spout untruths to the media, just like they do in every other sphere of 'news'. The general point that spread requires touch, or that the spread has been heavily fueled by burial practices may well be true--but the statements proffered will more often than not be bullshit.

The motive behind such misinformation, if indeed it is intentional, matters not.

Sifting through the BS gets tougher every day. At least we have a lot of practice. But strong doubt must be constantly applied, as well as active suspension of one's own biases and hopes.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:41 pm

Dude in Dallas died.

L-Jam3 · Post by **L-Jam3** » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:31 pm

howard wrote:
The Sybian wrote:Colbert had on the director of communicable diseases (or some such title) from Weill Cornell Hospital in NY. That guy said you basically have to physically touch the patient and smear his blood over your face to contract the virus. He said that in Liberia, the family handles the body of their dead relative, which is causing the spread.
This is a good example of misinformation. This is absolutely false. I suppose the infected NBC cameraman smeared the blood of his dead cousin on his face, between taking 'B' roll footage. The most simple application of known facts makes such a statement obviously flawed.

'Experts' will smugly spout untruths to the media, just like they do in every other sphere of 'news'. The general point that spread requires touch, or that the spread has been heavily fueled by burial practices may well be true--but the statements proffered will more often than not be bullshit.
The motive behind such misinformation, if indeed it is intentional, matters not.

Sifting through the BS gets tougher every day. At least we have a lot of practice. But strong doubt must be constantly applied, as well as active suspension of one's own biases and hopes.

Nothing really to add, besides that Ebola killed 3,000 people since it was isolated in 1977 while malaria kills a half million people a year, but the juxtaposition of good vocabulary and profanity is one of the things I missed about the swamp in my hiatus.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:29 pm

Yet another Facebook post by my first cousin once removed mentioned in the Local Police thread (I finally looked up the difference b/w once removed and second cousin, after decades of confusion). She commented on an article her friend posted from a terribly unfunny hip-hop parody site to the effect of dead ebola patients in Liberia coming back to life, spreading zombie ebola or some shit. Yes, her and her friend both thought it was real, and so did most the additional commenters. One meathead went off on a rant about how he knew ebola was going to decimate (my word, not his) the US. Wish I could find the post.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:48 am

The vigor with which I laughed at this...

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:32 pm

somebody on Twitter wrote:I wonder if all the conservatives yelling that Ebola might become airborne realize it means they now believe in evolution.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:02 pm

So people in Massachusetts and New York are experiencing symptoms. Plus a person that handled the body of the dead guy in Texas is suspected of having it too.

Greeeaaat. :/

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:37 pm

Before you know it there may be tens of people who might have maybe gotten Ebola.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:42 pm

Gunpowder wrote:Before you know it there may be tens of people who might have maybe gotten Ebola.

And 4 that actually do!

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:48 pm

Or not.

howard · Post by **howard** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:08 pm

I have read tons of stuff about the ebolas. And I am completely flummoxed. There is plenty of info to justify a complete and total freak out panic. Just as much info to sit back confident this will be no big deal (unless you live in downtown Monrovia) (and I have an affinity to those who do because that is where my parents, both Americans, once lived, met and married, which is another story.) Or take any position of relative calm or panic in between the two extremes.

I just don't know what to expect, or which way this thing will turn. One assumption I am going to hold--that the people in charge don't know either. The degree of certainty of any point of view is exceedingly low.

Guess I'll just chill in the interim. Rely on the much higher degrees of certainty regarding other big issues (war, the economy, the stupidity of institutional actions, the behavior of the powerful people and interests,et al; the things I can count upon.) Watch and wait.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:41 am

At the gym last week - I bring this up not to brag about my lame fitness regimen, but to mention that it's the only place where my eyeballs will watch CNN - and CNN ran a 4 minute cartoon with graphics that explained Ebola to its viewers.

If irritation and brain shrinkage are symptoms of Ebola, than CNN just may have triggered it.

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/v ... g.cnn.html

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:45 am

Still relevant? Oh, you know it.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=afe_1407 ... comments=1

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:12 pm

For those of us who feel like the media is underplaying the danger of Ebola, turn to Alex Jones, the only man who has the balls to tell us the truth.

The best part of the comments, even the paranoid nutjobs are laughing at Alex "Jewwife" Jones. Even the guy who wrote the following thinks Jones is a joke:

THE ONLY THREAT to the average American is a random attack by some chimp-like nig that the jew media spends all day trying to agitate.

ETA: That was 4 years ago! Holy shit, Jones was right!!! It's happening, Sheeple. Wake up!!!

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:18 pm

I'm gonna go full on hipster and say I was freaking out about Ebola before it was cool.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hot_Zone" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I read that book when it came out and was absolutely convinced we were doomed, DOOMED! I never really put it completely out of my mind and would occasionally check back in... Here's where the story turned in my head:

There have been MULTIPLE EBOLA OUTBREAKS, it's just that this one found a region not able to contain it as effectively as in the past outbreaks. http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/outbreaks/ ... aries.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't watch CNN or Fox, so I'm not being caustic when I ask if they are reporting the following:

* Nigeria and Senegal are very close to containing/wiping out this iteration of the outbreak in their countries.

* Carriers are only able to pass along the virus when they are exhibiting symptoms. In other words, during the (up to) 21 day incubation period, you can't pass the virus along. If you are running a 102 fever and vomiting... Yeah, maybe don't go out to the pub.

* This virus is not airborne. It's extremely contagious, don't get me wrong. But the fear mongering on this point is just horrible. I have a fear that aliens will populate my ear canal and force me to listen to Hall & Oates for the rest of my life. So what?

Yes, this is a huge issue and hopefully the coverage will a) get help to the people of Liberia and Guinea and b) focus people (again) on the need to be prepared to address the threat of epidemics --> pandemics.

But I think the speculation and what I assume is rampant fear mongering is just another example of just how horrible and fucked up our media is these days.

rass · Post by **rass** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:36 pm

Just need a little

to

that the Ebola virus is an airborne contagion, and that as long you stay

in

situations with infected individuals, everything should be fine!

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:46 pm

Rass, you sir are the greatest swamper of all time.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:55 pm

govmentchedda wrote:Rass, you sir are the greatest swamper of all time.

No credit from me for the higher level trolling? That was set 'em up, knock 'em down.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 3:00 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:I'm gonna go full on hipster and say I was freaking out about Ebola before it was cool.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hot_Zone" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I read that book when it came out and was absolutely convinced we were doomed, DOOMED! I never really put it completely out of my mind and would occasionally check back in... Here's where the story turned in my head:

There have been MULTIPLE EBOLA OUTBREAKS, it's just that this one found a region not able to contain it as effectively as in the past outbreaks. http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/outbreaks/ ... aries.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't watch CNN or Fox, so I'm not being caustic when I ask if they are reporting the following:

* Nigeria and Senegal are very close to containing/wiping out this iteration of the outbreak in their countries.

* Carriers are only able to pass along the virus when they are exhibiting symptoms. In other words, during the (up to) 21 day incubation period, you can't pass the virus along. If you are running a 102 fever and vomiting... Yeah, maybe don't go out to the pub.

* This virus is not airborne. It's extremely contagious, don't get me wrong. But the fear mongering on this point is just horrible. I have a fear that aliens will populate my ear canal and force me to listen to Hall & Oates for the rest of my life. So what?

Yes, this is a huge issue and hopefully the coverage will a) get help to the people of Liberia and Guinea and b) focus people (again) on the need to be prepared to address the threat of epidemics --> pandemics.

But I think the speculation and what I assume is rampant fear mongering is just another example of just how horrible and fucked up our media is these days.

response to A). The governments of those countries affected just don't care. I was watching a news report yesterday that in Liberia, aid workers are not even getting half the wages they were promised. They were promised $700 a month for risk work but got less than $300. Plus the protective equipment is very poor. The government says they've run out foreign aid money making epidemics (yeah right). The workers threatened to strike yesterday but didn't want to leave the victims behind. Governments are so corrupt over there, everything is a money-making opportunity.