The Greatest

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:21 pm

Anyone else hearing bad news?

Post by **Sabo** » Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:30 pm

Ryan wrote:Anyone else hearing bad news?

I saw a Twitter post that said a family friend asked for people to pray for him. So I guess things aren't going well.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:31 pm

Reports seem shaky at best, but I'm seeing the life support stuff.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:55 pm

mister d wrote:Reports seem shaky at best

Uncalled for

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:12 pm

Sounds like the end is very near.

Inevitable, but man, no one like him. I guess he's the last of my childhood heroes still around.

Fuck - I'll post this now. Ali lost this fight to a fantastic heavyweight at his absolute peak. But Ali fought anywhere between 5 and 12 rounds with a broken fucking jaw.

A fantastic fight, but I remember as a kid, the old timers belittling Ali as a pretty boy. This fight - along with the fight against Foreman and the last fight with Frazier prove to me that Muhammad Ali was the toughest motherfucker in the world.

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:35 pm

Several news reports that he is very near the end. Mays, McCovey and Jim Brown are still hanging in, but this is the big one for me, not surprisingly.

psunate77 · Post by **psunate77** » Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:45 pm

Biggest Sports Icon of all time? only one who may be as notorious then him is The Babe?

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:47 pm

Blair Thomas.

Post by **Sabo** » Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:56 pm

psunate77 wrote:Biggest Sports Icon of all time? only one who may be as notorious then him is The Babe?

Michael Jordan is in the running.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:14 pm

Sabo wrote:
psunate77 wrote:Biggest Sports Icon of all time? only one who may be as notorious then him is The Babe?
Michael Jordan is in the running.

Globally, you've got to include Pele. American? Jordan. Canadian? Gretzky.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:35 pm

howard wrote:Several news reports that he is very near the end. Mays, McCovey and Jim Brown are still hanging in, but this is the big one for me, not surprisingly.

My condolences, Howard.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:52 pm

#1 sports figure of my lifetime. RIP

Tom 1860 · Post by **Tom 1860** » Sat Jun 04, 2016 12:46 am

Ali will be remembered all over the world because of his personality, smile and courage. The US can rightly claim this and go the extra mile on the coverage...

Lets not do the Babe Ruth and other American sporting icons thing, this is on a different level and the world will mourn this great man.

howard · Post by **howard** » Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:44 am

Muhammad Ali, Titan of Boxing and the 20th Century, Dies at 74
By Robert Lipsyte JUNE 4, 2016

Muhammad Ali, the three-time world heavyweight boxing champion who helped define his turbulent times as the most charismatic and controversial sports figure of the 20th century, died on Friday in a Phoenix-area hospital. He was 74.

His death was confirmed by Bob Gunnell, a family spokesman.

Ali was the most thrilling if not the best heavyweight ever, carrying into the ring a physically lyrical, unorthodox boxing style that fused speed, agility and power more seamlessly than that of any fighter before him.

But he was more than the sum of his athletic gifts. An agile mind, a buoyant personality, a brash self-confidence and an evolving set of personal convictions fostered a magnetism that the ring alone could not contain. He entertained as much with his mouth as with his fists, narrating his life with a patter of inventive doggerel. (“Me! Wheeeeee!”)

Ali was as polarizing a superstar as the sports world has ever produced — both admired and vilified in the 1960s and ’70s for his religious, political and social stances. His refusal to be drafted during the Vietnam War, his rejection of racial integration at the height of the civil rights movement, his conversion from Christianity to Islam and the changing of his “slave” name, Cassius Clay, to one bestowed by the separatist black sect he joined, the Lost-Found Nation of Islam, were perceived as serious threats by the conservative establishment and noble acts of defiance by the liberal opposition.

Loved or hated, he remained for 50 years one of the most recognizable people on the planet.

continued at the nytimes website

howard · Post by **howard** » Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:59 am

Joe Posnanski

Muhammad Ali died Friday night. He was surrounded by family. There is no way to sum up his life because it was so big and contentious and fun and thrilling and, ultimately, silent. He was the most hated athlete of his time and the most beloved of all time. He was the loudmouth kid who couldn’t be touched, and the bruised warrior who would not go down, and the aging man who, though trapped by silence, talked about love. He was my father’s favorite athlete. I was raised on Ali.

No, there is no way to sum up Muhammad Ali at the end, there is simply a flood of images, Sports Illustrated covers and countless books. There are all those epic fights and special guest appearances and awards. There are all those punches and feints and Ali poems — including his shortest and most essential poem: “Me! Whee!” Brilliant writers like George Plimpton and Norman Mailer and Hunter S. Thompson and Mark Kram and Joyce Carol Oates and Gary Smith never tired of trying to unravel his magnificence. The brilliant actor Will Smith tried to recapture him on screen. Musicians across the last 50 years have tried to replay his rhythm.

But there was no one like Ali. He defined his time. Once, the writer Bob Greene asked to interview Ali for a special Esquire issue featuring the most influential people of their time. Here’s what followed in Greene’s classic story:

“I’m the most famous man in the world,” the voice said.

I said that there would be other famous people in the issue; people, perhaps, as famous as he.

“Who?” Ali said.

I said that some of the others were John F. Kennedy, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Martin Luther King.

“They’re all dead,” Ali said.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:15 am

govmentchedda wrote:
Sabo wrote:
psunate77 wrote:Biggest Sports Icon of all time? only one who may be as notorious then him is The Babe?
Michael Jordan is in the running.
Globally, you've got to include Pele. American? Jordan. Canadian? Gretzky.

But none of them were anything other than athletes. In terms of fame, accomplishment AND relevance beyond the world of sports, there's no one who can come close.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:28 am

I always loved the dude who snapped back with "you're not that pretty!" in the king of the world interview. Who was that dude?

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:46 am

Same dude that was in the audience for Delirious.

howard · Post by **howard** » Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:16 am

They'll be coming from me for a while. I haven't even searched for easy links to Hunter S. Thompson's work on Ali yet.

Good, short obit here: Did The Greatest American Alive Just Die?

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:35 am

Pruitt wrote:
govmentchedda wrote:
Sabo wrote:
psunate77 wrote:Biggest Sports Icon of all time? only one who may be as notorious then him is The Babe?
Michael Jordan is in the running.
Globally, you've got to include Pele. American? Jordan. Canadian? Gretzky.
But none of them were anything other than athletes. In terms of fame, accomplishment AND relevance beyond the world of sports, there's no one who can come close.

Agreed.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Sat Jun 04, 2016 12:01 pm

I've heard Stephen Brunt tell this story a few times.

WHEN I WAS SEVEN, I DISCOVERED THE CHAMP. TWENTY-FIVE YEARS LATER, I KNOCKED ON HIS DOOR.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/more/growing-up-ali/

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:25 pm

degenerasian wrote:I've heard Stephen Brunt tell this story a few times.

WHEN I WAS SEVEN, I DISCOVERED THE CHAMP. TWENTY-FIVE YEARS LATER, I KNOCKED ON HIS DOOR.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/more/growing-up-ali/

I read Brunt's book years ago - it is really good. Not just for what it says about Ali, but as a book about athletes in general and boxing in particular. Highly recommended.

This is the last round of probably the greatest fight in history. I'm sure you've all seen The Thrilla in Manilla, but if you haven't, take an hour and watch it. It is unbelievable.

Not long before this round, Frazier damn near killed Ali. The fact that he came back to do this is still hard to believe.

rass · Post by **rass** » Sat Jun 04, 2016 5:04 pm

Technically, roundaboutadly, he's my first kid's namesake. RIP

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Sat Jun 04, 2016 6:30 pm

rass wrote:Technically, roundaboutadly, he's my first kid's namesake. RIP

He must be the only Muhammad on your block.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:41 pm

Not gonna lie, Howard was the first person who popped into my mind when I heard the news.

howard · Post by **howard** » Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:47 pm

That's ironic, my first thought was "I hope Giff is taking the news ok". Just like everyone.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:43 pm

I've never seen this bit before:

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:51 pm

Watched the last six or seven rounds of the thrills in Manila on ESPN. Great fight.

Post by **brian** » Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:04 pm

Too convoluted to get into but I had ice cream with him at least two times maybe three when I was 12 to 15. Everyone knew he loves ice cream and always went to the same place most evenings in Berrien Springs when he lived there. If we went to the lake in South Haven sometimes we'd go a little out of the way home to see if The Greatest was there. It was like being in the presence of a god. Even despite being robbed of a lot of his speech. He loved the attention from kids. He still had that twinkle in his eyes. I'm choking up just thinking about it still. Wish I had something more eloquent to say. I was blessed to get to be near him.

howard · Post by **howard** » Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:07 pm

brian wrote:Too convoluted to get into but I had ice cream with him at least two times maybe three when I was 12 to 15.

That. Is. So. Fucking. Awesome!

Post by **brian** » Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:14 pm

And when I say with I also mean with like two dozen other kids of course but his wife, his friends and the people in Berrien Springs looked out for him. It was always really chill. Despite knowing who he was no one asked for autographs or pictures or anything. It was weird actually. I doubt it could be like that today.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:31 pm

Ummm ... yeah dude. Definitely couldn't. Check the news.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:18 pm

mister d wrote:Ummm ... yeah dude. Definitely couldn't. Check the news.

I think Jeter has a bit of that here. Especially on Davis Islands, the neighborhood where he lives.

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Mon Jun 06, 2016 4:45 am

Sabo wrote:
psunate77 wrote:Biggest Sports Icon of all time? only one who may be as notorious then him is The Babe?
Michael Jordan is in the running.

I've heard this a few times this past weekend.

No, he isn't. I can't remember the instance that caused him to say it, but Kareem Abdul Jabbar once quipped (paraphrased), "Jordan followed profit over conscience."

Ultimately, it's unfair to Jordan because in order for Kareem to say something like that, it's because of men like Ali who showed us the art of the possible.

Ali helped put a face to the Civil Rights Era. He threw up a gigantic middle finger to the US government when they wanted to parade him around Vietnam to rally the troops in their proxy war with the Soviet Union. He walked away from a title, leaving $ on the table to do it, too. No, he himself didn't end the war. He didn't get the landmark civil rights bill passed. But by putting a face on it he helped mainstream America not be able to avoid them, and he was willing to risk it all to do it. The fact he was African American, thus legitimizing a race of people on television sets across flyover country? Priceless.

Children look up to Michael Jordan because they don't know any better. People of all walks of life look up to what Ali accomplished because we're ultimately in deference to him and understand what 'The Greatest' really means.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:44 am

Also, Ali was the first athlete - black or white - to brag constantly and unapologetically. I think that this irritated the hell out of the old farts and the sportswriters early in his career. Ali wasn't one for false humility.

And while it would have happened eventually anyway, he set the precedent for every braggadocious athlete who followed.

Post by **Sabo** » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:25 am

EnochRoot wrote:
Sabo wrote:
psunate77 wrote:Biggest Sports Icon of all time? only one who may be as notorious then him is The Babe?
Michael Jordan is in the running.
I've heard this a few times this past weekend.

No, he isn't. I can't remember the instance that caused him to say it, but Kareem Abdul Jabbar once quipped (paraphrased), "Jordan followed profit over conscience."

Ultimately, it's unfair to Jordan because in order for Kareem to say something like that, it's because of men like Ali who showed us the art of the possible.

Ali helped put a face to the Civil Rights Era. He threw up a gigantic middle finger to the US government when they wanted to parade him around Vietnam to rally the troops in their proxy war with the Soviet Union. He walked away from a title, leaving $ on the table to do it, too. No, he himself didn't end the war. He didn't get the landmark civil rights bill passed. But by putting a face on it he helped mainstream America not be able to avoid them, and he was willing to risk it all to do it. The fact he was African American, thus legitimizing a race of people on television sets across flyover country? Priceless.

Children look up to Michael Jordan because they don't know any better. People of all walks of life look up to what Ali accomplished because we're ultimately in deference to him and understand what 'The Greatest' really means.

I don't dispute Ali was miles ahead of Jordan in trying to improve the human condition.

To me, a sports icon is someone who is known all over the world. That's it. And in that instance, Jordan is in the running, along with a few others like Pele. If you look at it from a global perspective, then you really are limited to athletes from a few sports: Soccer, basketball, boxing, Formula One and maybe - and I admit this is a stretch - rugby. Whether or not they're famous because of their political/social beliefs (Ali) or marketing (Jordan) is irrelevant.

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:16 am

Sabo wrote:
EnochRoot wrote:
Sabo wrote:
psunate77 wrote:Biggest Sports Icon of all time? only one who may be as notorious then him is The Babe?
Michael Jordan is in the running.
I've heard this a few times this past weekend.

No, he isn't. I can't remember the instance that caused him to say it, but Kareem Abdul Jabbar once quipped (paraphrased), "Jordan followed profit over conscience."

Ultimately, it's unfair to Jordan because in order for Kareem to say something like that, it's because of men like Ali who showed us the art of the possible.

Ali helped put a face to the Civil Rights Era. He threw up a gigantic middle finger to the US government when they wanted to parade him around Vietnam to rally the troops in their proxy war with the Soviet Union. He walked away from a title, leaving $ on the table to do it, too. No, he himself didn't end the war. He didn't get the landmark civil rights bill passed. But by putting a face on it he helped mainstream America not be able to avoid them, and he was willing to risk it all to do it. The fact he was African American, thus legitimizing a race of people on television sets across flyover country? Priceless.

Children look up to Michael Jordan because they don't know any better. People of all walks of life look up to what Ali accomplished because we're ultimately in deference to him and understand what 'The Greatest' really means.
I don't dispute Ali was miles ahead of Jordan in trying to improve the human condition.

To me, a sports icon is someone who is known all over the world. That's it. And in that instance, Jordan is in the running, along with a few others like Pele. If you look at it from a global perspective, then you really are limited to athletes from a few sports: Soccer, basketball, boxing, Formula One and maybe - and I admit this is a stretch - rugby. Whether or not they're famous because of their political/social beliefs (Ali) or marketing (Jordan) is irrelevant.

I think sport is more than facial recognition, at times through no fault of its own. Every now and then heroes pop up (sometimes, handpicked (Jackie Robinson), sometimes through their actions (Roberto Clemente)), and sometimes it's just greatness on the field (insert name here).

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:13 am

Pruitt wrote:Also, Ali was the first athlete - black or white - to brag constantly and unapologetically. I think that this irritated the hell out of the old farts and the sportswriters early in his career. Ali wasn't one for false humility.

And while it would have happened eventually anyway, he set the precedent for every braggadocious athlete who followed.

I have to smile at this one. Well stated, Pruitt. This one is the reason my father didn't like Ali.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:47 pm

EnochRoot wrote:
Sabo wrote:
psunate77 wrote:Biggest Sports Icon of all time? only one who may be as notorious then him is The Babe?
Michael Jordan is in the running.
I've heard this a few times this past weekend.

No, he isn't. I can't remember the instance that caused him to say it, but Kareem Abdul Jabbar once quipped (paraphrased), "Jordan followed profit over conscience."

Ultimately, it's unfair to Jordan because in order for Kareem to say something like that, it's because of men like Ali who showed us the art of the possible.

Ali helped put a face to the Civil Rights Era. He threw up a gigantic middle finger to the US government when they wanted to parade him around Vietnam to rally the troops in their proxy war with the Soviet Union. He walked away from a title, leaving $ on the table to do it, too. No, he himself didn't end the war. He didn't get the landmark civil rights bill passed. But by putting a face on it he helped mainstream America not be able to avoid them, and he was willing to risk it all to do it. The fact he was African American, thus legitimizing a race of people on television sets across flyover country? Priceless.

Children look up to Michael Jordan because they don't know any better. People of all walks of life look up to what Ali accomplished because we're ultimately in deference to him and understand what 'The Greatest' really means.

Damned, this is a good post. I'm too young to fully appreciate his social and political importance, but that took tremendous balls to buck the system the way he did during that time period. I forget about that sometimes when I think of his legacy. As a kid, I loved seeing videos of Ali and Howard Cosell together.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:30 pm

sancarlos wrote:
Pruitt wrote:Also, Ali was the first athlete - black or white - to brag constantly and unapologetically. I think that this irritated the hell out of the old farts and the sportswriters early in his career. Ali wasn't one for false humility.

And while it would have happened eventually anyway, he set the precedent for every braggadocious athlete who followed.
I have to smile at this one. Well stated, Pruitt. This one is the reason my father didn't like Ali.

It's odd - my father loved Ali, but hated all other big-mouthed athletes.