The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Because of the gay rumors? He could certainly play up the college football player angle, the black angle, and the intelligent lawyer angle. I think that would a lot of support.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
That's the "not that thing". My mom and I have talked about this and we can't figure out what it is, but there's something just off.
Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Booker is decidedly not “full left.” He’s been a longtime favorite of Wall Street and Big Pharma. The one time I’ve seen Booker show genuine passion is back in 2012 when he went on some TV news show and yelled at Obama for being unfair to Romney by “demonizing private equity”
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
The hard Left hates Booker, because he caved to big money and is more Center, IMO. Sad that Harris is considered Far Left, because she seems really reasonable.Joe K wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:36 am Booker is decidedly not “full left.” He’s been a longtime favorite of Wall Street and Big Pharma. The one time I’ve seen Booker show genuine passion is back in 2012 when he went on some TV news show and yelled at Obama for being unfair to Romney by “demonizing private equity”
I'm with Delaware, I feel like Booker is hiding something, and I don't mean his sexuality. I have no opinion on that, and don't care . I've heard the rumors for years, and always avoided reading/listening to anything about it, because I don't give a fuck, beyond being sad that if he is gay he feels he needs to hide it. Booker has seemingly groomed his perfect image with too much effort. It's like he is trying too hard to overcompensate. I hope I'm wrong, I really want to like him, and I think his personality and humble background could gain strong support.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
He's been to the sunken place?
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
I'll repeat. Healthcare is THE full-left issue they need to take. Sanders is trying to do this but there is resistance. The Environment would be next. Jobs/Outsourcing would be third. Go full left which supports unions and fights free trade.L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:24 am For 2020, the Democrats should just go full-left and put up someone like Kamala Harris or Cory Booker. They're never going to reach the 30% of America who would follow Trump to the gates of Hell, so just put up someone who will get the Democrats out there, and hopefully pull in a little more of the middle to flip the key states. If they weren't the most disorganized party in America since the fucking Donners this would be obvious.
I'm not sure immigration is a pure right/left issue, not one that would play well with the 30% in the middle that you're trying to get.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
I would love to see Harris on the ticket. And looking past 2020, hopefully Mayor Pete of South Bend has garnered enough recognition to get on the national ticket.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
And yet, since the Dems made the big "go left" move by shutting down the government over DACA, their once-massive lead over the Republicans in the generic congressional ballot poll has almost entirely disappeared.
If the Dems go really really hard left, they could probably get a solid 40 percent of the vote.
If the Dems go really really hard left, they could probably get a solid 40 percent of the vote.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
I was a fan of Booker until his Dem convention speech in 2016...he sounded like a bad high school football coach trying to motivate his team down 59-3 at the half. I think he was trying to repeat the Obama playbook move of a rousing convention speech to get some press but failed miserably in the execution.
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What am I, 12?
Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Do you think Obama was perceived by voters as a liberal candidate? Because, whether he actually was a true liberal, I certainly think he was perceived that way. And he was a hell of a lot better at winning elections than Dems who go out of their way to be centrists. Another data point is that Sanders and Warren consistently fare better in public approval polls than the party as a whole. It’s not the 1980s anymore; Democrats can win elections without sucking up to Reagan or running as GOP Lite!Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:01 pm And yet, since the Dems made the big "go left" move by shutting down the government over DACA, their once-massive lead over the Republicans in the generic congressional ballot poll has almost entirely disappeared.
If the Dems go really really hard left, they could probably get a solid 40 percent of the vote.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
He was perceived as less liberal than Sanders or Elizabeth Warren.Joe K wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:43 pmDo you think Obama was perceived by voters as a liberal candidate? Because, whether he actually was a true liberal, I certainly think he was perceived that way. And he was a hell of a lot better at winning elections than Dems who go out of their way to be centrists. Another data point is that Sanders and Warren consistently fare better in public approval polls than the party as a whole. It’s not the 1980s anymore; Democrats can win elections without sucking up to Reagan or running as GOP Lite!Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:01 pm And yet, since the Dems made the big "go left" move by shutting down the government over DACA, their once-massive lead over the Republicans in the generic congressional ballot poll has almost entirely disappeared.
If the Dems go really really hard left, they could probably get a solid 40 percent of the vote.
How many national elections have the Democrats won without sucking up to Reagan or running as GOP lite?
Remember, those of us on the Swamp and who follow liberal sources on Twitter are living in a bubble. The people we read and talk to and argue with are not representative of the American public.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
As someone that worked for the Democratic Leadership Council for 2 separate stints (90s and 00s), I fully endorse what JoeK just wrote. There was a time and a place for the DLC, in my opinion, but that time has passed (you'll note they shuddered their doors not all that long ago.)
There are certainly parts of the country where a centrist approach is appropriate and probably necessary to win elections. But, nationally? Nope. Not anymore.
There are certainly parts of the country where a centrist approach is appropriate and probably necessary to win elections. But, nationally? Nope. Not anymore.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Well, now, hold up. Let's remember the context of him winning both the nomination and the national election.Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:52 pmHe was perceived as less liberal than Sanders or Elizabeth Warren.Joe K wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:43 pmDo you think Obama was perceived by voters as a liberal candidate? Because, whether he actually was a true liberal, I certainly think he was perceived that way. And he was a hell of a lot better at winning elections than Dems who go out of their way to be centrists. Another data point is that Sanders and Warren consistently fare better in public approval polls than the party as a whole. It’s not the 1980s anymore; Democrats can win elections without sucking up to Reagan or running as GOP Lite!Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:01 pm And yet, since the Dems made the big "go left" move by shutting down the government over DACA, their once-massive lead over the Republicans in the generic congressional ballot poll has almost entirely disappeared.
If the Dems go really really hard left, they could probably get a solid 40 percent of the vote.
How many national elections have the Democrats won without sucking up to Reagan or running as GOP lite?
Remember, those of us on the Swamp and who follow liberal sources on Twitter are living in a bubble. The people we read and talk to and argue with are not representative of the American public.
Obama thought the Iraq War was a bad idea and voted accordingly. He was not a fan of NAFTA (at least on the campaign trail). Most importantly, his signature policy issue was providing access to health care to all.
In the context of 2008, he was not a centrist.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
i stated above, I'm not sure immigration/DACA is a true right/left issue.Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:01 pm And yet, since the Dems made the big "go left" move by shutting down the government over DACA, their once-massive lead over the Republicans in the generic congressional ballot poll has almost entirely disappeared.
If the Dems go really really hard left, they could probably get a solid 40 percent of the vote.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Jeez, it is completely a left-right issue. The right feels like their white nation is darkening and wants to do everything to stop that, including kicking out and keeping out people who will darken it further. The left feels sympathy toward the dark folks and/or likes the idea of a diverse nation.degenerasian wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:04 pmi stated above, I'm not sure immigration/DACA is a true right/left issue.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Yes, but by 2008 that position was the vast majority position - also, didn't Obama say in a debate or something that he would send forces across the border into Pakistan if it was necessary to hunt terrorists? And didn't McCain criticize him for it? He wasn't exactly a dove.Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:59 pmObama thought the Iraq War was a bad idea and voted accordingly.
That is true. And he criticized Hillary's plan because it included an insurance mandate. And he promised that he wouldn't tax the middle class to pay for getting health care to all.Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:59 pmHe was not a fan of NAFTA (at least on the campaign trail). Most importantly, his signature policy issue was providing access to health care to all.
Maybe I'm wrong, but it sure seemed to be that Obama was less liberal in 2008 than Hillary or Bernie in 2016, or Elizabeth Warren now.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
No discussion about this nothingburger of a memo?
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
This memo isn't changing anyone's opinion.
The real question I have is if Fredo fires Rosenstien and then installs a lackey to fire Mueller... what is actually stopping him from that? What recourse is there? Either Constitutionally or Practically? Other than a potential bloodbath in November, what is stopping him? He just wants to watch the world burn anyway.
The real question I have is if Fredo fires Rosenstien and then installs a lackey to fire Mueller... what is actually stopping him from that? What recourse is there? Either Constitutionally or Practically? Other than a potential bloodbath in November, what is stopping him? He just wants to watch the world burn anyway.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Nothing. Public opinion has been the only thing stopping him so far, memo or not.L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:38 pm This memo isn't changing anyone's opinion.
The real question I have is if Fredo fires Rosenstien and then installs a lackey to fire Mueller... what is actually stopping him from that? What recourse is there? Either Constitutionally or Practically? Other than a potential bloodbath in November, what is stopping him? He just wants to watch the world burn anyway.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
He has even in his best polls an approval rating below 40%. He doesn't give a shit about public opinion. Or he doesn't believe it. Asking only half-joking, what is the breaking point for an assassination attempt?
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
When they called Pennsylvania?
Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
The gun nuts all support him.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Trump doesn't care about this, but the real risk is that the GOP leadership carrying water for Trump could doom it to permanent irrelevance as a national party if there are bombshells yet to come (either from Mueller or from media reports or from a House investigation if the Democrats take back the House in 2018). Trump can't do anything to stop a House investigation if the Democrats are the majority party. And they'd conveniently have had most of their work already done for them by Mueller.
So if Trump were smart (he's not) and listening to advice from his lawyers (he's not), he'd just let this thing ride out and hope for the best. Short of information turned up in the investigation on his financial dealings (depending how bad they are from bad to absolutely criminal). He's never going to get convicted in the Senate for an impeachment even if somehow enough votes were scraped up in the House.
And if the GOP had at least had the sense to step away from it (I'm not even talking about impeachment or anything -- just letting the investigation run it course) they wouldn't have gotten all the shrapnel they're in line to take. We've gone from Trump possibly conspiring with a foreign power to an entire American political party conspiring with a foreign power at this point.
That the American voters may not be likely to forget and forgive like they did 6 years after Watergate. Not in 2018, not in 2020. Not for quite some time if ever.
So if Trump were smart (he's not) and listening to advice from his lawyers (he's not), he'd just let this thing ride out and hope for the best. Short of information turned up in the investigation on his financial dealings (depending how bad they are from bad to absolutely criminal). He's never going to get convicted in the Senate for an impeachment even if somehow enough votes were scraped up in the House.
And if the GOP had at least had the sense to step away from it (I'm not even talking about impeachment or anything -- just letting the investigation run it course) they wouldn't have gotten all the shrapnel they're in line to take. We've gone from Trump possibly conspiring with a foreign power to an entire American political party conspiring with a foreign power at this point.
That the American voters may not be likely to forget and forgive like they did 6 years after Watergate. Not in 2018, not in 2020. Not for quite some time if ever.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Stagflation / recession led to Reagan.brian wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:04 pm Trump doesn't care about this, but the real risk is that the GOP leadership carrying water for Trump could doom it to permanent irrelevance as a national party if there are bombshells yet to come (either from Mueller or from media reports or from a House investigation if the Democrats take back the House in 2018). Trump can't do anything to stop a House investigation if the Democrats are the majority party. And they'd conveniently have had most of their work already done for them by Mueller.
So if Trump were smart (he's not) and listening to advice from his lawyers (he's not), he'd just let this thing ride out and hope for the best. And if the GOP had at least had the sense to step away from it (I'm not even talking about impeachment or anything -- just letting the investigation run it course) they wouldn't have gotten all the shrapnel they're in line to take. We've gone from Trump possibly conspiring with a foreign power to an entire American political party conspiring with a foreign power at this point.
That the American voters may not be likely to forget and forgive like they did 6 years after Watergate.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
What percentage of voters would choose “R with Russia’s assistance” over D in an election?
Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Sure, I get that. None of this happens in a vacuum. I hope the economy continues to do well, but the stock market is well overdue for a correction and that could result in even more layoffs. If the unemployment rate goes up in the next few months, 2018 could be an even worse bloodbath than people think. And even if it keeps chugging along past the midterms, it's doubtful the bull market is going to continue for another three years.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
25 percent. Maybe.
(And even that's a ridiculous number, but that's where we are right now as a country. Like Bengal said, the GOP has taken four decades of indoctrinating their voters that theirs is the only vision of America that counts. It's less a political party than a cult at this point, but even people in cults can be deprogrammed.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
If you give them enough Flavor-Aid they get deprogrammed.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Losing every presidential election for the next two decades might also do it.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Well, they pretty much have already, except for that fucking archaic Electoral College...
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
They lost the popular vote four out of the last five times, yet here we are. That''s a systemic issue, and it won't go away until the Dems start taking the fight back to them. Unfortunately, it's not in their nature.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Again only half-joking, but what voter suppression tactics would work in lowering the power in Red states?
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Stagflation/Recession/Iranian Hostage Crisis led to Reagan.EnochRoot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:07 pmStagflation / recession led to Reagan.brian wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:04 pm Trump doesn't care about this, but the real risk is that the GOP leadership carrying water for Trump could doom it to permanent irrelevance as a national party if there are bombshells yet to come (either from Mueller or from media reports or from a House investigation if the Democrats take back the House in 2018). Trump can't do anything to stop a House investigation if the Democrats are the majority party. And they'd conveniently have had most of their work already done for them by Mueller.
So if Trump were smart (he's not) and listening to advice from his lawyers (he's not), he'd just let this thing ride out and hope for the best. And if the GOP had at least had the sense to step away from it (I'm not even talking about impeachment or anything -- just letting the investigation run it course) they wouldn't have gotten all the shrapnel they're in line to take. We've gone from Trump possibly conspiring with a foreign power to an entire American political party conspiring with a foreign power at this point.
That the American voters may not be likely to forget and forgive like they did 6 years after Watergate.
Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Constitutional amendment denying the right to vote if you own a pickup truck.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
I wouldn't put it past Fredo to attempt a false flag attack if he's trailing in October 2020.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
My whole point is that the Republican brand wasn't seriously tarnished by Watergate, so a few years later when the winds were blowing right, Reagan stepped in and had no trouble winning in 1980. If the Republicans in Congress then had committed the kind of obstruction of justice we're seeing here so that Nixon could run out the clock on his second term, maybe it's a different story? It very well could have been.DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:24 pmStagflation/Recession/Iranian Hostage Crisis led to Reagan.EnochRoot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:07 pmStagflation / recession led to Reagan.brian wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:04 pm Trump doesn't care about this, but the real risk is that the GOP leadership carrying water for Trump could doom it to permanent irrelevance as a national party if there are bombshells yet to come (either from Mueller or from media reports or from a House investigation if the Democrats take back the House in 2018). Trump can't do anything to stop a House investigation if the Democrats are the majority party. And they'd conveniently have had most of their work already done for them by Mueller.
So if Trump were smart (he's not) and listening to advice from his lawyers (he's not), he'd just let this thing ride out and hope for the best. And if the GOP had at least had the sense to step away from it (I'm not even talking about impeachment or anything -- just letting the investigation run it course) they wouldn't have gotten all the shrapnel they're in line to take. We've gone from Trump possibly conspiring with a foreign power to an entire American political party conspiring with a foreign power at this point.
That the American voters may not be likely to forget and forgive like they did 6 years after Watergate.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Donald saw his shadow this morning. Nearly 3 more years of hell.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Yeah I meant to include the October Surprise in there too.DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:24 pmStagflation/Recession/Iranian Hostage Crisis led to Reagan.EnochRoot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:07 pmStagflation / recession led to Reagan.brian wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:04 pm Trump doesn't care about this, but the real risk is that the GOP leadership carrying water for Trump could doom it to permanent irrelevance as a national party if there are bombshells yet to come (either from Mueller or from media reports or from a House investigation if the Democrats take back the House in 2018). Trump can't do anything to stop a House investigation if the Democrats are the majority party. And they'd conveniently have had most of their work already done for them by Mueller.
So if Trump were smart (he's not) and listening to advice from his lawyers (he's not), he'd just let this thing ride out and hope for the best. And if the GOP had at least had the sense to step away from it (I'm not even talking about impeachment or anything -- just letting the investigation run it course) they wouldn't have gotten all the shrapnel they're in line to take. We've gone from Trump possibly conspiring with a foreign power to an entire American political party conspiring with a foreign power at this point.
That the American voters may not be likely to forget and forgive like they did 6 years after Watergate.
Noli Timere Messorem