25 years ago!

[degenerasian]

[howard]

My goodness, that was exciting when it happened. I had forgot that Jimmy Hines' Olympic record held up 20 years, 9.96 in Mexico. I had also forgotten, I ran across Lewis' mom in LA in '84, and thought she was a MILF.

[Scottie]

And 20 years ago! . . . he tested positive again; being a national disgrace held in the same regard as the country's most notorious criminals, being utterly shredded throughout the agonizingly lengthy Dubin Inquiry, subject of an entire nation's scornful ridicule, having taught him exactly nothing. The shameless series of television commercials he did for the unfortunately named "Cheetah" energy drink ("Yes, absolutely, I cheetah all the time!") lowered what was commonly thought to be an individual's lowest possible point. And on this inglorious anniversary, most reporting makes passing note of his attempts to rehab his reputation, the focus is largely on the farcical public appearances he has since made and a clear "we'll never forget what you did" stance from media both in the sporting world and beyond.

Ah, man. I didn't steal no stereo.

[Shirley]

Remember how big and jacked he seemed at the time? I remember thinking he was huge. Now, he'd be an average-at-best sized sprinter (Bolt excepted).

[HaulCitgo]

Agree. What do you make of that? It wasn't so long ago that it was a totally different sport. There are basically no guys the size of Carl Lewis anymore. I don't really believe that 80% of current sprinters are doping but 80% are definitely more powerful looking than Carl Lewis. The legs in particular.

[Gunpowder]

Remember how big and jacked he seemed at the time? I remember thinking he was huge. Now, he'd be an average-at-best sized sprinter (Bolt excepted).

Was thinking the same thing except that he'd look out of shape compared to some of these monsters. Average may be too much credit.

[Shirley]

Agree. What do you make of that? It wasn't so long ago that it was a totally different sport. There are basically no guys the size of Carl Lewis anymore. I don't really believe that 80% of current sprinters are doping but 80% are definitely more powerful looking than Carl Lewis. The legs in particular.

Bolt is actually built a lot like Carl Lewis. Long and lean.

Pretty much all of the other guys - huge and probably juicing. Since damn near every champion sprinter since Johnson has either tested positive or been associated with a coach tied to roids AND since they are all huge AND since if anything roids are more prevalent now then in 1988 - yeah, I'd say very nearly all are juicing somehow or another.

[DaveInSeattle]

Remember how big and jacked he seemed at the time? I remember thinking he was huge. Now, he'd be an average-at-best sized sprinter (Bolt excepted).

I remember how yellow his eyes were. That was bizarre.

[Joe K]

Agree. What do you make of that? It wasn't so long ago that it was a totally different sport. There are basically no guys the size of Carl Lewis anymore. I don't really believe that 80% of current sprinters are doping but 80% are definitely more powerful looking than Carl Lewis. The legs in particular.

Bolt is actually built a lot like Carl Lewis. Long and lean.

Pretty much all of the other guys - huge and probably juicing. Since damn near every champion sprinter since Johnson has either tested positive or been associated with a coach tied to roids AND since they are all huge AND since if anything roids are more prevalent now then in 1988 - yeah, I'd say very nearly all are juicing somehow or another.

Yeah, Bolt is the only sprinter who finished in the top-4 in the 100m at the last Olympics who hasn't gotten caught doping. Asafa Powell, a past World Champion who finished 8th in that race, has also failed a test.

[Pruitt]

I remember how Ben Johnson went from being a "Canadian hero" to being a "disgraced Jamaican sprinter" in 48 hours.

The night he won that race, the pub I was in exploded with joy. The people in the bar then poured onto Yonge Street (Toronto's main drag) where they joined in an impromptu party with thousands of people.

When the story broke that Johnson had failed, it was so obvious that people with half a mind said "oh... yeah, this sucks." while realizing that there could not be any doubt regarding his guilt.

Only the delusional kept arguing in his favour.

Not a good time to be Canadian. Thank God for Lennox Lewis at those Olympics.

[Scottie]

This whole thread typifies how Canadians now view him; nine posts deep in a conversation about Johnson before anyone actually used his name. I'm trying to think of another athlete that disgraced his/her/its country (and, thereby, self) in any way close to approximating Johnson. Drawing blanks.

[degenerasian]

This whole thread typifies how Canadians now view him; nine posts deep in a conversation about Johnson before anyone actually used his name. I'm trying to think of another athlete that disgraced his/her/its country (and, thereby, self) in any way close to approximating Johnson. Drawing blanks.

The Black Sox?

The only other one I can think of is obscure cause it's cricket. South African captain Hansie Cronje fixed matches in 1999. Then died in a plane crash in 2002

[Pruitt]

This whole thread typifies how Canadians now view him; nine posts deep in a conversation about Johnson before anyone actually used his name. I'm trying to think of another athlete that disgraced his/her/its country (and, thereby, self) in any way close to approximating Johnson. Drawing blanks.

I'd say Lance Johnson, but he was representing himself and not the USA.

I also drew blanks here. And Americans have to realize that the hype on this race was built up in Canada for close to a year. Our plucky underdog against arrogant Carl Lewis. Remember, other than in hockey and curling, Canadians are always underdogs. It's what we are used to, and it's a role that we enjoy.

So when carl Lewis had the nerve, the GALL!, to hint that Ben Johnson was a cheater becuase he was beating him in most every race in the buildup to the Olympics, we hated him. What a suck! What a poor loser!

One day, the Canadian people will apologize to Lewis.

If you haven't seen the 30 For 30 doc 9.79, you should check it out.

And in Atlanta when Donovan Bailey won gold in the 100 Metres and when the Canadian Relay team beat the Americans for gold, we did not get as excited, because the burn from Seoul was still fresh.

[howard]

I can't think of anything close. Since the cold war era ended, athletes representing the nation isn't that big a deal, I suppose. Compared to internal sports.

This was kinda a big deal:

[Shirley]

And in Atlanta when Donovan Bailey won gold in the 100 Metres and when the Canadian Relay team beat the Americans for gold, we did not get as excited, because the burn from Seoul was still fresh.

And probably because Bailey was also from Jamaica and was built just like Johnson. Bailey's chief rival was Maurice Greene (also built like a linebacker) who was never caught, but had a cloud of suspicion around most of his career (he did get caught paying a Mexican athlete $10K - and the Mexican guy says it for for PEDs).

Like bike racing, ALL of those guys (and girls) were dirty at that point. Probably still are.

[Scottie]

One day, the Canadian people will apologize to Lewis.

Canadians apologize reflexively. For everything. But they'll never apologize to Lewis. No way.

I can't think of anything close. Since the cold war era ended, athletes representing the nation isn't that big a deal, I suppose. Compared to internal sports.

This was kinda a big deal <snip>

True. Although Johnson was hardly inspirational. "If I win I'm an American, if I lose I'm Black" does apply to Johnson to some degree. He went from being Canada's "superman" to "that stupid Jamaican", or often worse, in a heartbeat; not unlike that which Smith and Carlos were protesting; albeit for far different reasons.

Countries as large as the United States can't really produce a disgrace that affects the entire nation; it's too big and has too long a history of success in international sport. A New Zealand maybe. Or a Finland. A Norland. Or singularly Canada. And it would have to be an athlete that was raised by a government and had millions sunk into his training; that was every bit a construct designed to showcase and frame Canada's multiculturalism as a success (which it isn't, and is another billion dollar failure). And it would have to be an event that was on the level of the Olympic Showcase 100m event, that carries the mythic title "world's fastest man". And it would have to be televised to about a billion viewers and replayed another billion times. And it would have to be an event to which an entire nation was riveted before the truth shattered it all. The Johnson experience was a rare example of every single possible thing going wrong.

To give you an idea of how unaffected Americans are by such things. On a much smaller scale, much smaller, Mary Decker fell down completely on her own and then blamed Zola Budd. Remember "Budd tripped me! Waaah waaah waaah."? Of course Budd did not touch her. Decker's utter lack of sportsmanship was mildly mocked and instantly forgotten. America went on to laud its winners and, as usual, forget its losers; sore or otherwise.

Johnson, out-fitted in Canadian colors, in those exact 1988 circumstances, after all that hype, in that race, at that time? A perfect shitstorm that hit a perfect shitfan.

[Pruitt]

And in Atlanta when Donovan Bailey won gold in the 100 Metres and when the Canadian Relay team beat the Americans for gold, we did not get as excited, because the burn from Seoul was still fresh.

And probably because Bailey was also from Jamaica and was built just like Johnson. Bailey's chief rival was Maurice Greene (also built like a linebacker) who was never caught, but had a cloud of suspicion around most of his career (he did get caught paying a Mexican athlete $10K - and the Mexican guy says it for for PEDs).

Like bike racing, ALL of those guys (and girls) were dirty at that point. Probably still are.

Mark McKoy was a great Canadian sprinter of that era. He also trained with Johnson's coach Charlie Francis. He left the Seoul games before the 100m relay (and after Johnson was nailed)

As a result, he was banned from competing for two years - and in Atlanta he won gold in the 100m hurdles. and he admitted under oath that he had taken steroids - but they didn't affect him at all...

Bottom line is that track - like cycling - is a filthy sport. Canadians will never again embrace the sport like we did back in the late 1980s when the narrative that we chose to believe was that an "unorthodox" track coach created a formidable track team from the immigrant community of Toronto. It was a lovely story, a Canadian version of the American dream, whereby poor kids from the Carribbean had come to Canada and were honouring their new country by putting it on the world's athletics map.

Like I said earlier - and it wasn't a joke - Ben Johnson (along with Mark McKoy and others) - was that these athletes went from being "Canadian heroes" to "immigrants" in less than two days.

McKoy ended his track career competing for Austria.

[degenerasian]

Not sure we will never embrace the sport again.

The Canadian relay disqualification at the last Olympics was pretty heartbreaking and when they redeemed themselves to win bronze at this year's World Championships it was pretty big news.

Winning Bronze in the relay now it like winning Gold. Jamaica and US so far ahead of everyone else.

We have a good high jumper, shot putter, heptathlete and decathlete. But no way we can challenge for the 100m again with Jamaica being that strong.

[Shirley]

To give you an idea of how unaffected Americans are by such things. On a much smaller scale, much smaller, Mary Decker fell down completely on her own and then blamed Zola Budd. Remember "Budd tripped me! Waaah waaah waaah."? Of course Budd did not touch her. Decker's utter lack of sportsmanship was mildly mocked and instantly forgotten. America went on to laud its winners and, as usual, forget its losers; sore or otherwise.

I'm not sure about this. I completely agree that Mary Decker was a terrible sport about what happened, but it's not true that Budd didn't touch her (I guess it's debatable who was at fault).

You can see it in the video below. Budd cut over way to close to Decker, who had nowhere else to go. You can see Decker's feet - she's very nearly on the inside barrier. If you look, their feet are coming down on nearly the same spots, but Budd slides over a bit anyway, in front of Decker. It then looks like Budd's foot clips Decker's leg (because they were too close) and then Decker steps on Budd's foot (which had to hurt like hell). That sent Decker down and I've never understood why she didn't get back up and continue.



Distance runners know that you are supposed to be a stride ahead before you cut over in front of someone. Budd was at fault, but Decker was a complete bitch about it for years after (and maybe still is).

[howard]

Decker's utter lack of sportsmanship was mildly mocked…

Hardly. We mocked that shit as hard as we could, until Edna Kerrigan took her place.

[rass]

And in Atlanta when Donovan Bailey won gold in the 100 Metres and when the Canadian Relay team beat the Americans for gold, we did not get as excited, because the burn from Seoul was still fresh.

Fresh Seoul burn.

Slow soul burn.

[howard]

Still burnin'. White fucking hot, yo.

[rass]

[Gunpowder]

Can't wait for Mike Tyson's Faygo ads, putting the rape in Grape soda.

Sidenote: Is anyone in sports more reviled historically than Johnson for doing something that athletes have been doing for 40 years and continue to do today?

[brian]

He had the unfortunate timing of essentially being the first major guy pinched for it. But you're not wrong. Also didn't help him that he was representing Canada.

[Shirley]

Can't wait for Mike Tyson's Faygo ads, putting the rape in Grape soda.

Sidenote: Is anyone in sports more reviled historically than Johnson for doing something that athletes have been doing for 40 years and continue to do today?

Barry Bonds?

Of course, being an asshole probably didn't help.

[Pruitt]

He had the unfortunate timing of essentially being the first major guy pinched for it. But you're not wrong. Also didn't help him that he was representing Canada.

Still many people up here whine about the fact that Johnson was nailed and not Carl Lewis or other Americans.

Ben's got a history of trying desperately to cash in on his infamy.

15 years ago or so, he helped a low-life local entrepreneur and wannabe TV entertainer named Frank D'Angelo launch a line of energy drinks called "Cheetah"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq_2lmCXeDk

That D'Angelo guy is a fascinating character. A talentless egomaniac who at one point owned a couple of supper clubs, a juice company, an energy drink company all while being sued by everyone he had ever dealt with. He even had a late night talk show on a local station that he had to pay to get aired at 1 am on a sunday.

[duff]

https://youtu.be/QwD22vX9KSY

[sancarlos]

Can't wait for Mike Tyson's Faygo ads, putting the rape in Grape soda.

Sidenote: Is anyone in sports more reviled historically than Johnson for doing something that athletes have been doing for 40 years and continue to do today?

Barry Bonds?

Of course, being an asshole probably didn't help.

Bonds may be hated everywhere else, but he's been rehabilitated in the Bay Area. He coached for the Giants in spring training.

Fun fact: Barry Bonds grew up here in San Carlos and his mother still lives here. He bought a scoreboard for the local little league.