Turner Field

[wlu_lax6]

Not a very long life for the most recent Braves home field. Moving to the Burbs in 2017. Basically only 20 years since taking over the Olympic stadium.

[Sabo]

Since wlu_lax is getting too lazy to provide links any more ...

ETA: When I typed wlu_lax in my Web browser, it auto-corrected to flu-lax. That's weird, Mr. Auto Correct.

[howard]

I wonder if the bonds/debt used to finance the stadium will outlive the stadium. Par for the course these days.

[Rex]

The Braves are dead to me.*

I enjoyed typing that. It's easy to dump your casual second team, and there are plenty of other teams I'd rather root for as a second team. The Braves' main advantage was that I could go to their games, which will no longer be the case, unless I budget two hours for the trip. It's that bad going up there.

The map they put up on Deadspin is crazy deceptive, to the point where I hope the team is simply lying and doesn't actually believe the import of what it says. The proposed site is bordered on one side by national park land and on another by an air force base. It has virtually no side road access and absolutely no access to transit. The only way to get there is on the interstate, which is why it is the worst traffic bottleneck in the metro area RIGHT NOW. It will be practically impossible for about 70% of the metro area to get there on a weeknight.

But the fact that the team published that picture tells you all you need to know. The Braves have always found it hard to market to black people, intown hipsters, and their "regional" audience at the same time--admittedly that's a tough sell and I don't envy them. Increasingly, they've given up on the first two groups and catered to the third. The TV ad campaign celebrates "Braves Country", which includes Chattanooga and Macon and Mississippi and everywhere other than Atlanta. The music is increasingly modern country to the exclusion of everything else. This year the marketing team doubled down on the virtues of the Chop (the most ridiculous thing I've heard/read today is the suggestion that they will rebrand the team for political correctness' sake). About the only guy who hasn't gotten the memo is Frank Wren who has built a pretty interesting team with marketable young black, hispanic, and Caribbean players who will want to get the fuck out of Cobb County as fast as they can.

Go Hawks.


*Unless this is all a ploy to get the City to pony up some cash, which is very possible, in which case they're mostly dead to me.

[degenerasian]

Was the old Fulton County Stadium better?

Just on tv I liked it more.

[Yard of Junk]

Was the old Fulton County Stadium better?

Just on tv I liked it more.

No. Fulton County was the typical "multi-purpose" 1960s "flying saucer" style stadium. Nothing to write home about.

[wlu_lax6]

The buses to MARTA from Turner are not fun (at least they don't try to charge you like the Skins do). So lets not fool each other about the mass transit at the current site. But I will agree Cobb would be like moving the Nats out to Dulles.

Has ATL had the downtown revival like many cities? Part of moving teams back downtown was due to the dynamic of affluent folks moving back to the city near work. My limited experience in Atlanta is that jobs have slid out to the burbs.

Also the Braves signed a 20 year deal with the city. They are not breaking it early. The thing that bothers me most is that the stadium is not "old". It is still a great place to watch a game with great amenities. This is not RFK or O.co (or what ever they call Oakland's stadium these days).

[Yard of Junk]

The Braves are dead to me.*
But the fact that the team published that picture tells you all you need to know. The Braves have always found it hard to market to black people, intown hipsters, and their "regional" audience at the same time--admittedly that's a tough sell and I don't envy them. Increasingly, they've given up on the first two groups and catered to the third. The TV ad campaign celebrates "Braves Country", which includes Chattanooga and Macon and Mississippi and everywhere other than Atlanta. The music is increasingly modern country to the exclusion of everything else. This year the marketing team doubled down on the virtues of the Chop (the most ridiculous thing I've heard/read today is the suggestion that they will rebrand the team for political correctness' sake). About the only guy who hasn't gotten the memo is Frank Wren who has built a pretty interesting team with marketable young black, hispanic, and Caribbean players who will want to get the fuck out of Cobb County as fast as they can.

I've seen the theory, but I think it ultimately comes down to the dollars. Cobb County is funding a ridiculous $450 million to get the Braves to construct the new park there. According to Mayor Reed's press conference, the City was in negotiations with them, but essentially, refused to play the blackmail/move the team or fund with taxpayer dollars games with the Braves. Good for them. Good for the City. While revenue may be lost in town, this was not a situation where the team was actually going to "move". I'm sure the city will still have benefits from having a MLB team, even though not in town, and they haven't broken the bank to build a new stadium.

Of course, that may be an easier position to take when you don't have the funds, which is certainly possible. Atlanta has already kicked out $200 million in hotel/motel tax to help build the Falcons new stadium, so I'm not sure what the city had in the "cupboard" for the Braves.

And, regardless of the map's "red" -- if you live the northeastern area of the suburbs, it is much easier to get downtown than it is to the 75/285 Cobb Cloverleaf area; at least during a regular work week. This move does not benefit many in the fan base at all, as far as ease in getting to the stadium.

The thing that is most annoying is that there is no real need for a new stadium for either baseball or football. The Georgia Dome and the Ted are both still very good facilities. Its just unbelievable that owners continue to hold their hometown governments hostage every twenty years to construct new facilities. While certainly the tax dollars from these come from sources which may not directly come from the individual resident taxpayer (in Georgia -- Hotel/Motel tax tacked onto your room reservation is commonly used to facilitate these types of projects); there are numerous other uses those funds could go to, which in my mind, would be more beneficial to the community.

[Bensell]

Isn't Atlanta already putting up the cash for a replacement of the Georgia Dome for the Falcons/SEC Championship? How much cash can they put up for sports venues?

Here is the link for the Falcons new digs where apparently they are only using hotel tax dollars for the new stadium. We'll see how long that lasts

http://adamgoldfein.com/does-ga-need-a-new-ga-dome/

[A_B]

White flight, no?

[howard]

White flight, no?

Since 1864

[govmentchedda]

Turner is about as far south in Atlanta proper as you can go, correct? Seems to me like a move from one suburb to another.

[Rex]

Turner Field is about a mile from downtown proper. It's a very unpleasant mile (not dangerous, necessarily, but pedestrian unfriendly to the extreme), which is a legitimate beef on the team's part and a legitimate failing of city planners. Some of the problems can be fixed (i.e., by converting the vast surface lots into something that can be used year-round), but nobody has the motivation and/or imagination to do that.

But moving to the suburbs trades one problem for another in my opinion. By my count, there are only three MLB teams that play in counties that I would call principally suburban in character: the Angels (in Orange County, population 3 million), Rangers (Tarrant County, population 1.7 million) and Rays (Pinellas County, population 900,000). Cobb has fewer than 700,000, so the best comp is the Rays, and I don't think that's a situation you want to compare yourself to. Moreover, the county officials are famously hostile to mass transit, and as Junkyard mentioned, it's not a given that people in the northeastern suburbs would find the drive preferable to going downtown. The only way I see this working if the business community gets behind it, and for now, the business community is pretty shocked and hasn't formed an opinion yet.

Bensell: this isn't quite like the Falcons situation. The Georgia Dome is state owned and its financing comes from a state hotel-motel tax. By law, part of the proceeds of that tax must go to the Dome or an equivalent--it can't be used to pay for schools, fire trucks, etc. So the issue was just whether to spend this pile of money on Stadium A or Stadium B. The Braves stadium, if it ever gets done, will presumably be financed by bonds backed by Cobb County tax revenues (although the zillions in related road improvements will be paid for by all Georgians I guess).

[Gunpowder]

Turner Field is in such a boring part of Atlanta.

[howard]

So as the PTI guys left the air, Wilbon ranted that the 1896 Olympic Stadium in Athens is still standing. Got me wondering.

How many Olympic stadia are still in use (summer games)? All of em, except two.

Name em. One is easy; the other not so much.

Hint--Berlin (1936) still stands. It was on the edge of the city, and not seriously damaged by the Russians in 1945.

Another hint--an occasional Alouettes Grey Cup game counts as still in use.

[brian]

St. Louis should be one.

[howard]

St. Louis should be one.

Excellent guess. But where would Washington University play their D-3 football games, if not at Francis Field?

I'm using Wiki as my source.

[brian]

Interesting. Had no idea that was the same stadium used in the Olympics.

[brian]

OK, London should be one then.

(Well, the 20th century London stadia).

[degenerasian]

OK, London should be one then.

(Well, the 20th century London stadia).

Actually I think this is the answer to both.
London hosted two summer games in the 20th century and neither stadium is still around right?

Unless there was no such thing as an Olympic Stadium in 1908.

[howard]

OK, London should be one then.

(Well, the 20th century London stadia).

Technically, you are incorrect.

London is two of them. Both 20th century.

1908--White City Stadium, in Shepards' Bush, West London, demolished 1985.

And 1948--Old Wembley. Tore down for New Wembley in 2003. 21st century London Olympic Stadium still going strong, if hosting West Ham United, planned for 2016 can be considered going strong.

[Scottie]

Montreal. Still she stands in all her gory glory.

ETA: And the Grey Cup is hosted in different CFL cities each year. If the Alouettes ended up playing in a game hosted by Montreal in Olympic Stadium, it would be coincidence. Not a huge coincidence since there are only eight teams; Saskatchewan hosts this year and may well play in the Grey Cup.

ETAA: That's not a guess, obvs. Just a tangent. I have no idea what the answer is.

[The Sybian]

I thought Sydney was supposed to be turned into some sort of wasteland. Did they decide to keep the main stadium going and scrap the rest of the facilities?

[Scottie]

You really have to force yourself to see "2012" in there. It has never been the first image to come to mind.



The problem always was having two different shapes for "2".

[Yard of Junk]

The Braves stadium, if it ever gets done, will presumably be financed by bonds backed by Cobb County tax revenues (although the zillions in related road improvements will be paid for by all Georgians I guess).

And some massive road improvements will be required. The 75/285 Cobb Cloverleaf area is already one of the most congested in the city. I can't imagine what it will be like adding a major venue there without significant road improvements being made. Again, I can't imagine driving down from the northeastern burbs (Gwinnett/Athens et. al.) for a weeknight game under current conditions. MUCH easier to get downtown to the Ted than to the new site.

[Gunpowder]

So as the PTI guys left the air, Wilbon ranted that the 1896 Olympic Stadium in Athens is still standing. Got me wondering.

How many Olympic stadia are still in use (summer games)? All of em, except two.

Name em. One is easy; the other not so much.

Hint--Berlin (1936) still stands. It was on the edge of the city, and not seriously damaged by the Russians in 1945.

Another hint--an occasional Alouettes Grey Cup game counts as still in use.

Is Olympic Stadium in Montreal torn down?

[Gunpowder]

Montreal. Still she stands in all her gory glory.

ETA: And the Grey Cup is hosted in different CFL cities each year. If the Alouettes ended up playing in a game hosted by Montreal in Olympic Stadium, it would be coincidence. Not a huge coincidence since there are only eight teams; Saskatchewan hosts this year and may well play in the Grey Cup.

ETAA: That's not a guess, obvs. Just a tangent. I have no idea what the answer is.

Ahhh. Then I have no idea.

Fuckin' Helsinki?

[Gunpowder]

Just looked up one of my other guesses to find out that not only is Tokyo's 1964 stadium still standing, it will be re-used for the 2020 Olympics that should be in Istanbul because variety is cool.

[Shirley]

St. Louis should be one.

Excellent guess. But where would Washington University play their D-3 football games, if not at Francis Field?

I'm using Wiki as my source.

The site of some (but not much) of my long jumping glory!

[Rush2112]

Is Olympic Stadium in Montreal torn down?

Except for the odd piece of concrete falling from the stadium roof, it's still there.

[degenerasian]

Olympic Stadium in Montreal will be used for the 2015 Women's World Cup. Maybe the US will be drawn there and you can go check it out (and avoid falling concrete)

[Pruitt]

Olympic Stadium in Montreal will be used for the 2015 Women's World Cup. Maybe the US will be drawn there and you can go check it out (and avoid falling concrete)

On top of being one of the biggest wastes of money in history, the Big Owe is a horrible place to watch any event. The city and province have spent more money repairing that dump than the entire Olympics were supposed to cost in the first place. Probably used ten times a year...

And London's $900 million stadium will need a further $300 million to convert it into a proper home for West Ham.

[brian]

Howard gave the answer -- it's London for both. Tricky. Every other Olympic stadium is still standing in some form or another.

[howard]

I was about to highlight it in red

[Scottie]

That's Quebec. Right there. And that's how Quebec gets on the cover of national magazines calling it the most corrupt place in Canada. Which it is. By far. Whatever second place is, it's light years behind. The "Big Owe" was supposed to cost something like $100,000,000. In the end it cost about $1,500,000,000. Staggering waste of money, most of which was nothing but graft, graft, graft. And the damn thing wasn't even built to specs. The roof is too low, the seats are all facing in screwy directions. The pissers are all fucked up. Every corner that could be cut was cut and then some. It was still under construction when the 1976 Olympics started. It was still under construction decades, yes decades, after the games were over and gone.

The only reason Canada has a national lottery is because of the corruption surrounding Montreal's Olympic Stadium. It was originally "Olympic Lotto" and tickets were $10 for the chance at winning a million. Now it's 6/49 for $2 and the prizes are typically far greater. If they're real, that is.

For $1.5 Billion, in 1976 dollars, any other city could have hosted the Olympics about ten times.

[Shirley]

Howard gave the answer -- it's London for both. Tricky. Every other Olympic stadium is still standing in some form or another.

To be fair, I doubt much of Wash U's stadium is the original stadium. It's smaller than many high school stadiums. There is a cool five-rings thingie built into the fence around the stadium, hinting at the history - very understated and I'm guessing a lot of students there don't even realize they are there.

[testy boxcar]

Howard gave the answer -- it's London for both. Tricky. Every other Olympic stadium is still standing in some form or another.

To be fair, I doubt much of Wash U's stadium is the original stadium. It's smaller than many high school stadiums. There is a cool five-rings thingie built into the fence around the stadium, hinting at the history - very understated and I'm guessing a lot of students there don't even realize they are there.

the st louis olympics themselves barely count for an olympics, so it's apropos.

[Rush2112]

Howard gave the answer -- it's London for both. Tricky. Every other Olympic stadium is still standing in some form or another.

To be fair, I doubt much of Wash U's stadium is the original stadium. It's smaller than many high school stadiums. There is a cool five-rings thingie built into the fence around the stadium, hinting at the history - very understated and I'm guessing a lot of students there don't even realize they are there.

My high school's track and baseball diamond built with the torch in between them . The speedskating oval is directly in front of the HS and you have outdoor classes and field hockey games on the infield. The hockey team plays in the Olympic arena..yet for some reason the mascot is the Blue Bombers and not the Olympians.

[The Sybian]

Howard gave the answer -- it's London for both. Tricky. Every other Olympic stadium is still standing in some form or another.

To be fair, I doubt much of Wash U's stadium is the original stadium. It's smaller than many high school stadiums. There is a cool five-rings thingie built into the fence around the stadium, hinting at the history - very understated and I'm guessing a lot of students there don't even realize they are there.

My high school's track and baseball diamond built with the torch in between them . The speedskating oval is directly in front of the HS and you have outdoor classes and field hockey games on the infield. The hockey team plays in the Olympic arena..yet for some reason the mascot is the Blue Bombers and not the Olympians.

I thought you grew up in Vermont. Am I forgetting the Montpelier Olympics?

[rass]

Tour of the in-progress new Barves stadium.

h/t