Bill Buckner
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- Pruitt
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Bill Buckner
69 Years Old
Such a shame that he is only remembered for the one thing.
20 solid years in the majors.
Such a shame that he is only remembered for the one thing.
20 solid years in the majors.
"beautiful, with an exotic-yet-familiar facial structure and an arresting gaze."
Re: Bill Buckner
Well saidPruitt wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 4:20 pm 69 Years Old
Such a shame that he is only remembered for the one thing.
20 solid years in the majors.
"What a bunch of pedantic pricks." - sybian
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Re: Bill Buckner
ESPN's chiron pissed me off. Guy had an amazing career.
You can lead a horse to fish, but you can't fish out a horse.
Re: Bill Buckner
I know its not the T or the P (and I'm just assuming we have no friends or relatives of the Buckners here), but he really didn't. He had a very long career.
Re: Bill Buckner
His chance of realizing something truly special went up in smoke when he suffered a debilitating ankle injury in ‘75.
No way of knowing, but when you realize how often he made contact (and how low his OBP was considering), I’m guessing his exit velocity got sapped something significant,
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Re: Bill Buckner
He played with Jim Bunning and Phil Plantier. That's long.
he’s a fixbking cyborg or some shit. The
holy fuckbAllZ, what a ducking nightmare. Holy shot. Just, fuck. The
holy fuckbAllZ, what a ducking nightmare. Holy shot. Just, fuck. The
Re: Bill Buckner
If you like WAR, he's just better than half as good as the next lowest career WAR in the Last Half Century 10,000+ PA Club. Who wants to guess who that not-quite-double Buckner hitter is?
Re: Bill Buckner
I'm only guessing by his similarity scores on BR, but
? And for the record, I don't think his comp is anywhere close to Hall-worthy either.
? And for the record, I don't think his comp is anywhere close to Hall-worthy either.
Last edited by L-Jam3 on Tue May 28, 2019 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
My avatar corresponds on my place in the Swamp posting list with the all-time Home Run list. Number 45 is Paul Konerko with 439.
Re: Bill Buckner
Just looked it up and it's impressive in its own way that a dude who played for that long could have that low of a WAR.
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Re: Bill Buckner
Amazing might not be the right descriptor... Remarkable is probably about right.
Also note, I didn't say he was a HOF'er.
Also note, I didn't say he was a HOF'er.
You can lead a horse to fish, but you can't fish out a horse.
Re: Bill Buckner
Hey. Scott Sanderson died about a month and a half ago, as per the home page for BR. I missed that one. #RememberingSomeGuys
My avatar corresponds on my place in the Swamp posting list with the all-time Home Run list. Number 45 is Paul Konerko with 439.
Re: Bill Buckner
Its not your guess and I agree the comp isn't HoF worthy but ...
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Re: Bill Buckner
Yeah, both Sanderson and Buckner hit me pretty hard.
I think the amazing thing about Buckner was how long he lasted considering how badly he was injured (and I think multiple times). When he came to the Cubs in 77, he was already pretty gimpy. But from 80 to 83, he played in almost every game, and had a 116 OPS+.
Plus I have a feeling that if the baseball world knew the value of a walk back then, he would have taken a lot more of them and improved his OBP and his resulting stats. He had that good of an eye.
(Somehow he managed to lead the league in assists from 1B four times from 82 through 86.)
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
Re: Bill Buckner
If you expand to all-time 10,000+ PA, you get the same bottom two with 85 total members and a pretty interesting look at Bobby Abreu versus David Ortiz.
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Re: Bill Buckner
Hold on, I'm trying to see if Jack London ever gets this fire built or not.
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Re: Bill Buckner
I'm probably missing something obvious, but what is the logic behind docking a player 1.5 WAR per year for playing DH, a position that by definition doesn't require defense? Was Ortiz really that much worse at not playing defense as others who didn't play defense as DHs?
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
Re: Bill Buckner
Probably because WAR makes adjustments for defensive capability, down to the position they play.
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Re: Bill Buckner
Sure. But I don't see how Ortiz not playing defense cost his team 1.5 wins per year over a replacement designated hitter, who also would have not played defense.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
Re: Bill Buckner
No, I don't think the replacement level player plays any particular position. It's just a definition of a bare-minimum skillset at anominal cost to help the team to a 120 loss season. Or something.Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 3:15 pmSure. But I don't see how Ortiz not playing defense cost his team 1.5 wins per year over a replacement designated hitter, who also would have not played defense.
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Re: Bill Buckner
No one in particular, just looking at where he is on the WAR list with a career 140 wRC+ over 10,000 PAs.
(So I guess I'm comparing him to everyone else on that career WAR list.)
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: Bill Buckner
I think I look at it the other way. Here's the 2004 Red Sox; is it in any way "fair" that David Ortiz is considered 4.2 win player to Manny Ramirez's 3.3 when Ramirez has slightly better offensive numbers and almost the exact same PAs?Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 4:22 pmNo one in particular, just looking at where he is on the WAR list with a career 140 wRC+ over 10,000 PAs.
(So I guess I'm comparing him to everyone else on that career WAR list.)
Re: Bill Buckner
Good article on him with more impressive info about his strikeout numbers: https://joeposnanski.com/billy-buck/
posnanski wrote:In 1980, the year he led the league in batting, he came to the plate 615 times. He struck out 18 of them.
Bryce Harper has struck out 19 times in the last two weeks.
Joey Gallo struck out 207 times in 2018.
Bill Buckner struck out 205 times in the 1970s. The whole decade.
Re: Bill Buckner
Hasn’t the last half century of baseball scholarship proven that a strikeout is not that devastating of a result and the ability to not strike out - while impressive - not an especially important skill in the modern game?
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Re: Bill Buckner
That article kind of addresses it
It's impressive that he was the best at something that most batters valued when he played, but I like looking at it as a cool statistical thing comparing eras.That attitude, I suppose, is the big difference — for many players, for most players, the strikeout is an ordinary out now, no more or less damaging than an infield fly, better in many cases than a ground ball hit directly to an infielder. This is technically true — and always was true — but it only took hold as a universal philosophy in the last couple of decades.
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Re: Bill Buckner
I guess if Ramirez played below average in the field, thus costing his team runs over what a replacement left fielder would have done, yes.mister d wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 7:33 pmI think I look at it the other way. Here's the 2004 Red Sox; is it in any way "fair" that David Ortiz is considered 4.2 win player to Manny Ramirez's 3.3 when Ramirez has slightly better offensive numbers and almost the exact same PAs?Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 4:22 pmNo one in particular, just looking at where he is on the WAR list with a career 140 wRC+ over 10,000 PAs.
(So I guess I'm comparing him to everyone else on that career WAR list.)
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
Re: Bill Buckner
I think its more that its an almost universal trade-off to get power than it not being a valuable skill. Dimaggio and Pujols not striking out is pretty insane. Buckner not striking out is ... fine.
Re: Bill Buckner
But part of the reason Ramirez is in the field is because Ortiz is even less capable. I'm not even sure how you'd work it out mathematically, but bad should still be preferable to absent when it comes to something outside the player's control.Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 11:22 amI guess if Ramirez played below average in the field, thus costing his team runs over what a replacement left fielder would have done, yes.
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Re: Bill Buckner
Yeah, I see that. On the other hand, if a second baseman is forced to play shortstop because of injuries or roster construction, and does so badly, he still gets dinged for bad performance.mister d wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 11:44 amBut part of the reason Ramirez is in the field is because Ortiz is even less capable. I'm not even sure how you'd work it out mathematically, but bad should still be preferable to absent when it comes to something outside the player's control.Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 11:22 amI guess if Ramirez played below average in the field, thus costing his team runs over what a replacement left fielder would have done, yes.
Who knows.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
Re: Bill Buckner
Yeah. I feel like I'm trying to separate the actual results from the player's responsibility for those results. Or something.