I wonder if Gretzky would be as GOAT if he wasn't on the Oilers back in their heyday but rather had gone to some moribund franchise. Glen Sather had an amazing team built in Edmonton. If the current FO had 70% of his success with all the super high picks as Sather had with picks in the 40s (Messier) they'd be hanging hell of a lot more banners in the rafters.
NFL Off-season 2020
Moderators: Shirley, Sabo, brian, rass, DaveInSeattle
Re: NFL Off-season 2020
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
As always...Don't Read The Comments!brian wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:13 pm Brees already backpedaling faster than he's ever done as a QB.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
Why'd you do that?DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:12 pmAs always...Don't Read The Comments!brian wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:13 pm Brees already backpedaling faster than he's ever done as a QB.
Now I hate people.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:12 pmAs always...Don't Read The Comments!brian wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:13 pm Brees already backpedaling faster than he's ever done as a QB.
"Thomas is going to see his throws cut way down." Yeah, let's see how that works out for them.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
Dude pushes the pocket back into all the QBs.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
Typical Purdue education on display.A_B wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:15 pmDaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:12 pmAs always...Don't Read The Comments!brian wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:13 pm Brees already backpedaling faster than he's ever done as a QB.
"Thomas is going to see his throws cut way down." Yeah, let's see how that works out for them.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
You have to be kidding. I guess people forget how singularly dominant was Gretzky.Rush2112 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:43 pmI wonder if Gretzky would be as GOAT if he wasn't on the Oilers back in their heyday but rather had gone to some moribund franchise. Glen Sather had an amazing team built in Edmonton. If the current FO had 70% of his success with all the super high picks as Sather had with picks in the 40s (Messier) they'd be hanging hell of a lot more banners in the rafters.
In 1986-87 he led the scoring race, with 73 more points than the second place guy. 73 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1985-86 he led the scoring race, with 74 more points than the second place guy. 77 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1984-85 he led the scoring race, with 73 more points than the second place guy. 73 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1983-84 he led the scoring race, with 79 more points than the second place guy. 79 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1982-83 he led the scoring race, with 72 more points than the second place guy. 90 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1981-82 he led the scoring race, with 65 more points than the second place guy. 107 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1980-81 he led the scoring race, with 29 more points than the second place guy. 89 points more than the next highest Oiler.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
I'll be WAY more impressed if he takes a knee, but I have to give credit where due.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
LeBron chewed his ass too.
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Some white people just don't get it.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
I don’t think his dominance is forgotten, but maybe questioned just a little. I guess from both sides ...
(1) Do you think Gretzky as a 2000 rookie would be routinely putting up 150+ point seasons in a league where the 120 mark has been crossed only five times in two decades?
(2) Check out these contemporaries, both from a quality of competition standpoint and a “this guy scored 100 points / who is this guy who scored 100 points???” standpoint.
(Would have made a good swampcrash question if 19 year old Lemieux had one less.)
THEREFORE ... is it fair to question of there’s a little Babe Ruth in the stats? Undeniable greatest of his era and all-time in terms of relative to competition, but fair to question if the competition did some of that work?
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
mister d wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:49 pmI don’t think his dominance is forgotten, but maybe questioned just a little. I guess from both sides ...
(1) Do you think Gretzky as a 2000 rookie would be routinely putting up 150+ point seasons in a league where the 120 mark has been crossed only five times in two decades?
(2) Check out these contemporaries, both from a quality of competition standpoint and a “this guy scored 100 points / who is this guy who scored 100 points???” standpoint.
(Would have made a good swampcrash question if 19 year old Lemieux had one less.)
THEREFORE ... is it fair to question of there’s a little Babe Ruth in the stats? Undeniable greatest of his era and all-time in terms of relative to competition, but fair to question if the competition did some of that work?
Yeah. Gretzky didn’t have to play against black players. Good point.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
His goalie was black so it was doubly unfair.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
Accidentally made a great point AB ... check when Eastern Europe really started seeing their best players hit the NHL.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
All my points are great whether they are great or not.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
Jordan was never as dominant as Gretzky was. Maybe only Babe Ruth ever was.sancarlos wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:50 pmYou have to be kidding. I guess people forget how singularly dominant was Gretzky.Rush2112 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:43 pmI wonder if Gretzky would be as GOAT if he wasn't on the Oilers back in their heyday but rather had gone to some moribund franchise. Glen Sather had an amazing team built in Edmonton. If the current FO had 70% of his success with all the super high picks as Sather had with picks in the 40s (Messier) they'd be hanging hell of a lot more banners in the rafters.
In 1986-87 he led the scoring race, with 73 more points than the second place guy. 73 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1985-86 he led the scoring race, with 74 more points than the second place guy. 77 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1984-85 he led the scoring race, with 73 more points than the second place guy. 73 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1983-84 he led the scoring race, with 79 more points than the second place guy. 79 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1982-83 he led the scoring race, with 72 more points than the second place guy. 90 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1981-82 he led the scoring race, with 65 more points than the second place guy. 107 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1980-81 he led the scoring race, with 29 more points than the second place guy. 89 points more than the next highest Oiler.
And while the Oilers were a great team,there were a lot of wingers who played with Gretzky who disappeared once they left Edmonton.
Now, as a Leafs fan way back when, I can say that there's no possible way he'd have scored 212 points in a season in with the shitty Toronto teams of that era. But there's no way he'd have ever scored less than 140 points. He was simply that much better than everyone else.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
I don’t know nearly enough about hockey to compare Gretzky to modern guys like Crosby or Ovechkin. However, the best sports example I can think of for “untouchable stats due to his era but not the best ever” is Wilt Chamberlain. No one will ever average 50 ppg again or touch his rebounding stats, but virtually every smart basketball historian says Kareem was better. Shaq and Hakeem were likely also better centers (Anthony Davis too if you consider him a center).
Re: NFL Off-season 2020
It’s tough to compare players from different eras. Tough to factor in defense, too. But, the huge degree by which Gretzky’s offensive statistics surpassed his peers every year, for eight consecutive years is mind-boggling.Joe K wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:07 pm I don’t know nearly enough about hockey to compare Gretzky to modern guys like Crosby or Ovechkin. However, the best sports example I can think of for “untouchable stats due to his era but not the best ever” is Wilt Chamberlain. No one will ever average 50 ppg again or touch his rebounding stats, but virtually every smart basketball historian says Kareem was better. Shaq and Hakeem were likely also better centers (Anthony Davis too if you consider him a center).
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
Oh, I know how dominant he was. I am not arguing that at all. He's probably leading the league in those same categories if he played for Toronto, but he would've had a shitload of points, but would he have had 150+ assists if he had been passing to Greg Terrion instead of Jarri Curri? (yes I know Mike Krushelnyski scored almost 17% of his goals his first year with Gretzky.)sancarlos wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:50 pmYou have to be kidding. I guess people forget how singularly dominant was Gretzky.Rush2112 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:43 pmI wonder if Gretzky would be as GOAT if he wasn't on the Oilers back in their heyday but rather had gone to some moribund franchise. Glen Sather had an amazing team built in Edmonton. If the current FO had 70% of his success with all the super high picks as Sather had with picks in the 40s (Messier) they'd be hanging hell of a lot more banners in the rafters.
In 1986-87 he led the scoring race, with 73 more points than the second place guy. 73 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1985-86 he led the scoring race, with 74 more points than the second place guy. 77 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1984-85 he led the scoring race, with 73 more points than the second place guy. 73 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1983-84 he led the scoring race, with 79 more points than the second place guy. 79 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1982-83 he led the scoring race, with 72 more points than the second place guy. 90 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1981-82 he led the scoring race, with 65 more points than the second place guy. 107 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1980-81 he led the scoring race, with 29 more points than the second place guy. 89 points more than the next highest Oiler.
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
Re: NFL Off-season 2020
Another related topic, those Oilers teams were amazing, but they were by far the best team in the league. The closest competition (especially later in the decade) was Calgary and they had the formula to beat the Flames for the most part..until the Oilers started to fall apart and the Flames hit their stride.
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
Re: NFL Off-season 2020
mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.
Re: NFL Off-season 2020
This thread. Oh man.
mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.
Re: NFL Off-season 2020
Martellus went off too. Don't know if the thread I linked got it all.
Re: NFL Off-season 2020
Ooooh! Damn. That was outstanding.
mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.
Re: NFL Off-season 2020
I felt aswirl with warm secretions.
Re: NFL Off-season 2020
I gotta tell you guys. I've had more fun in the last two days with most of America turning on the racists than I've had in years.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
Sorry, I'm very late to this thread... Didn't Rodgers sign a petition to recall Scott Walker? I know he's a devout Christian, I'm not so sure he's a MAGA turd.brian wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 1:20 amSure. So would someone even like Matthew Stafford, but they're both MAGA turds.Joe K wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 11:00 pmUnless I’m missing your point, isn’t Aaron Rodgers the clear answer?mister d wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 10:08 pm Well right, and also him being firmly aligned on the other side. Most powerful QB that could do this would be ... I just googled starting QBs and I have no idea. They’re all either not white or white and mostly bland as shit relative to talent level. There’s no “whoa fuck Mike Trout / Connor McDavid said what???” level potential name.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
Aaron maybe ain't all the way there...
“All I'm sayin' is, he comes near me, I'll put him in the wall.”
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
That thread has it all there. Obviously, he's posting a lot more than just that, but that thread is phenomenal.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
The nfl is racist. The main reason they don’t have black coaches is because of racism not because they aren’t “qualified”. You already know how the white owners who hire coaches feel about black players. It’s the same way they feel about black coaches.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
Antonio Brown was never nearly as dominant as Don Hutson. No QB was as dominant as Dan Marino. There is a point in there.Pruitt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:54 pmJordan was never as dominant as Gretzky was. Maybe only Babe Ruth ever was.sancarlos wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:50 pmYou have to be kidding. I guess people forget how singularly dominant was Gretzky.Rush2112 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:43 pmI wonder if Gretzky would be as GOAT if he wasn't on the Oilers back in their heyday but rather had gone to some moribund franchise. Glen Sather had an amazing team built in Edmonton. If the current FO had 70% of his success with all the super high picks as Sather had with picks in the 40s (Messier) they'd be hanging hell of a lot more banners in the rafters.
In 1986-87 he led the scoring race, with 73 more points than the second place guy. 73 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1985-86 he led the scoring race, with 74 more points than the second place guy. 77 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1984-85 he led the scoring race, with 73 more points than the second place guy. 73 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1983-84 he led the scoring race, with 79 more points than the second place guy. 79 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1982-83 he led the scoring race, with 72 more points than the second place guy. 90 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1981-82 he led the scoring race, with 65 more points than the second place guy. 107 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1980-81 he led the scoring race, with 29 more points than the second place guy. 89 points more than the next highest Oiler.
And while the Oilers were a great team,there were a lot of wingers who played with Gretzky who disappeared once they left Edmonton.
Now, as a Leafs fan way back when, I can say that there's no possible way he'd have scored 212 points in a season in with the shitty Toronto teams of that era. But there's no way he'd have ever scored less than 140 points. He was simply that much better than everyone else.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
Pretty sweet "I Think You Should Leave" reference here.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
Yeah... but that wasn’t a bad statement. Doesn’t matter unless games start in the fall and the pres goes all SOB again and RG maintains this, but it wasn’t really wishy washy.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
It was a great statement but let’s see what happens when an entire team takes a knee during week 1 and all the conservatives starting flipping out and Trump melts down.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
Not watching, but unless there’s a direct apology to Kaepernick et all and an admission that policing their silent protest was a horrible mistake, it’s a bad statement.
Re: NFL Off-season 2020
He’s never going to admit that they blackballed Kaepernick.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
That was a legit question. I see the thread pop up every now and then, and I was wondering if the guy panned out.Rush2112 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:16 pmDon't you dare sully the great name of McDavid!The Sybian wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 8:22 am I think Bapo! thought he was going to be the greatest player ever when he was drafted. How'd that turn out?
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
League MVP (with two other top-5 finishes), two seasons voted best player in the league by other NHL players, and two seasons leading the league in scoring -- all before turning 23 years old.The Sybian wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:51 pmThat was a legit question. I see the thread pop up every now and then, and I was wondering if the guy panned out.Rush2112 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:16 pmDon't you dare sully the great name of McDavid!The Sybian wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 8:22 am I think Bapo! thought he was going to be the greatest player ever when he was drafted. How'd that turn out?
What I'm tying to say is, the jury's still out on if he panned out.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2020
Again I don’t follow hockey but he is one of the few players I know. That’s biased by the swamp but he’s not a bust by any stretch.
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