Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:44 am

I want to be canceled like Dave Chappelle and Joe Rogan.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:03 am

brian wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:37 amIt's a damn shame when a once-funny comedian starts to punch down. (See also C.K., Louis.)

CK was more in and out, than down.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:54 pm

mister d wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:03 am
brian wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:37 amIt's a damn shame when a once-funny comedian starts to punch down. (See also C.K., Louis.)
CK was more in and out, than down.

Technically, I think he started down, then tried to go up. Don't think he was ever in and out, unless you're talking about his own hand.

Post by **Shirley** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:09 pm

The Dave Chappell stuff depresses me. He's so talented and insightful. I have no idea why he keeps coming back to this issue and continually handling it wrong. Maybe it's just an ego thing - he will NOT be told that he was wrong.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:22 pm

govmentchedda wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:54 pm
mister d wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:03 am
brian wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:37 amIt's a damn shame when a once-funny comedian starts to punch down. (See also C.K., Louis.)
CK was more in and out, than down.
Technically, I think he started down, then tried to go up. Don't think he was ever in and out, unless you're talking about his own hand.

I was, indeed. His fist was moving in and out, not down.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:04 pm

Shirley wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:09 pm The Dave Chappell stuff depresses me. He's so talented and insightful. I have no idea why he keeps coming back to this issue and continually handling it wrong. Maybe it's just an ego thing - he will NOT be told that he was wrong.

I think that's right. I think he was so roundly praised for how he handled Comedy Central and walking away and finding his true self and all that... I think he has started to really buy into his image of being above everything, looking down and finding the truth that is only evident to him. And he is absolutely a revered figure (understatement) within his profession. Hard to underplay that aspect. He walks into a club to work on material and it's like Jesus just walked through the door.

I just think, at this point, that he just doesn't care if his stuff is upsetting certain groups. Like Rogan, he doesn't really need any advertisers or whatever to remain extremely comfortable and he wears the Twitter and other bombs coming his way like a badge of honor.

Not that he cares, but personally, with so many other ways/places to find entertainment, not a big loss to just cross him off the list.

Post by **brian** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:58 pm

I think he just tends to look at things through a Black/white lens, which to some extent is perfectly understandable. It IS hard to be Black in America and things haven't gotten that much better over the last whatever number of years you want to throw out there. But for whatever reason there's a hole in his vision where he doesn't realize or doesn't care that as hard as it is for Dave Chappelle, even as rich as he is, it's 1000x hard for a Black trans person or a Black gay person, etc. He somehow doesn't seem to think that you can be both and that those people are the ones he's really hurting by punching down.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:21 pm

It was a shit special but really the thing that bothers me was that the entirety was a variation of "It's ok for me to disparage [minority group] since I had a [minority] friend once."

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:27 pm

What bothered me is that it just wasn't funny.

TT2.0 · Post by **TT2.0** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:24 pm

Personally loved the special, thought it was brilliant, and think that particular community deserved all of the commentary and attention they got from him. Honestly if you really thought that special was punching down or in poor taste, I highly encourage you to never listen to me do standup, because you wont like me either. Bunch of people who are never going to have to go in front of a live crowd AND on a taped special armchair quarterbacking what they think the greatest comic of my generation should say is ironically laughable. Hes not allowed to speak on his personal experieces with a group that has tried for multiple years to get him cancelled and stripped of his livelihood? Hes supposed to just repeatedly take it and turn the other cheek because this group might get offended? Not a single person on this thread ever made a post about how fucked up it was that Dave Chappelle punches down on black people, or women, but this special this time is the straw that breaks the camels back huh? Fuck every part of that take. Fuck the groups that decided jokes were some kind of permanent harm. Fuck policing comedy, and fuck the comedy police.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:52 pm

okey dokey. But also, fuck off.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:53 pm

Do you think the trans community started everything with Chappelle and he’s just fighting back?

TT2.0 · Post by **TT2.0** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:56 pm

mister d wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:53 pm Do you think the trans community started everything with Chappelle and he’s just fighting back?

Yes. I think that community thinks that somehow everyone else in the world can take a joke but them

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:09 pm

Give us your favorite of his jokes they just can’t take.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:55 pm

tennbengal wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:52 pm okey dokey. But also, fuck off.

Haven't watched The Closer but hard agree. Fuck off.

TT2.0 · Post by **TT2.0** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:20 pm

mister d wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:09 pm Give us your favorite of his jokes they just can’t take.

I saw an entire outrage article about "beyond pussy & impossible pussy" which was probably my favorite of the "problematic " jokes aimed at that group

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:41 am

TT2.0 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:56 pm
mister d wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:53 pm Do you think the trans community started everything with Chappelle and he’s just fighting back?
Yes. I think that community thinks that somehow everyone else in the world can take a joke but them

OOOH OOHH OOOH Add me to the fuck off list!

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:47 am

TT2.0 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:20 pmI saw an entire outrage article about "beyond pussy & impossible pussy" which was probably my favorite of the "problematic " jokes aimed at that group

That sounds super funny. Like if were the 90s and some comedian was like "REAL marriage is like pepsi but gay marriage ... folks, that's like CRYSTAL PEPSI" and it would be worth alienating or hurting some people because that type of its-funny-because-you're-different observations are just too good to keep to yourself.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:15 am

TT2.0 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:24 pm Bunch of people who are never going to have to go in front of a live crowd AND on a taped special armchair quarterbacking what they think the greatest comic of my generation should say is ironically laughable.

And, yet, a group you routinely ask to watch your standup and provide feedback.

You've got a number of dads on here with children that live the hardship of being "other" every day. Might be a decent approach to chill the fuck out, given that context.

Fine to have a strong opinion, obviously. But getting personal like that was pretty uncalled for.

Post by **brian** » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:42 am

I don't think any person or group is above mockery, but if you're going after a group that's been marginalized you better not miss and it needs to be a lot funnier than "trans people are gross!".

GoodKarma · Post by **GoodKarma** » Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:01 am

TT2.0 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:24 pm Personally loved the special, thought it was brilliant, and think that particular community deserved all of the commentary and attention they got from him. Honestly if you really thought that special was punching down or in poor taste, I highly encourage you to never listen to me do standup, because you wont like me either. Bunch of people who are never going to have to go in front of a live crowd AND on a taped special armchair quarterbacking what they think the greatest comic of my generation should say is ironically laughable. Hes not allowed to speak on his personal experieces with a group that has tried for multiple years to get him cancelled and stripped of his livelihood? Hes supposed to just repeatedly take it and turn the other cheek because this group might get offended? Not a single person on this thread ever made a post about how fucked up it was that Dave Chappelle punches down on black people, or women, but this special this time is the straw that breaks the camels back huh? Fuck every part of that take. Fuck the groups that decided jokes were some kind of permanent harm. Fuck policing comedy, and fuck the comedy police.

That's the beauty of this country...Chappelle cans say whatever he wants...and his critics can do the same. The deal is you get to say stuff but you're not immune to criticism, be it by words or actions. I would expect people who insist that they should get to say whatever they want to extend the same courtesy to everybody.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:10 am

GoodKarma wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:01 am
TT2.0 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:24 pm Personally loved the special, thought it was brilliant, and think that particular community deserved all of the commentary and attention they got from him. Honestly if you really thought that special was punching down or in poor taste, I highly encourage you to never listen to me do standup, because you wont like me either. Bunch of people who are never going to have to go in front of a live crowd AND on a taped special armchair quarterbacking what they think the greatest comic of my generation should say is ironically laughable. Hes not allowed to speak on his personal experieces with a group that has tried for multiple years to get him cancelled and stripped of his livelihood? Hes supposed to just repeatedly take it and turn the other cheek because this group might get offended? Not a single person on this thread ever made a post about how fucked up it was that Dave Chappelle punches down on black people, or women, but this special this time is the straw that breaks the camels back huh? Fuck every part of that take. Fuck the groups that decided jokes were some kind of permanent harm. Fuck policing comedy, and fuck the comedy police.
That's the beauty of this country...Chappelle cans say whatever he wants...and his critics can do the same. The deal is you get to say stuff but you're not immune to criticism, be it by words or actions. I would expect people who insist that they should get to say whatever they want to extend the same courtesy to everybody.

You must be new...

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:18 am

Crass and ridiculous is allowed in comedy. Likewise the criticism. The gag in the show is people don't listen to what he is saying and yet criticize. Not unlike many here. The context is gay and trans people showing up in person and threatening him. And you know it's true. Thus the humor. That and LGBTQ bigotry isn't the same as racial bigotry. One could make valid points on both sides there. Problem is not super funny just funny so feels like trying too hard to make points. Kinda why he says he's done with the trans material.

GoodKarma · Post by **GoodKarma** » Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:12 pm

A_B wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:10 am
GoodKarma wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:01 am
TT2.0 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:24 pm Personally loved the special, thought it was brilliant, and think that particular community deserved all of the commentary and attention they got from him. Honestly if you really thought that special was punching down or in poor taste, I highly encourage you to never listen to me do standup, because you wont like me either. Bunch of people who are never going to have to go in front of a live crowd AND on a taped special armchair quarterbacking what they think the greatest comic of my generation should say is ironically laughable. Hes not allowed to speak on his personal experieces with a group that has tried for multiple years to get him cancelled and stripped of his livelihood? Hes supposed to just repeatedly take it and turn the other cheek because this group might get offended? Not a single person on this thread ever made a post about how fucked up it was that Dave Chappelle punches down on black people, or women, but this special this time is the straw that breaks the camels back huh? Fuck every part of that take. Fuck the groups that decided jokes were some kind of permanent harm. Fuck policing comedy, and fuck the comedy police.
That's the beauty of this country...Chappelle cans say whatever he wants...and his critics can do the same. The deal is you get to say stuff but you're not immune to criticism, be it by words or actions. I would expect people who insist that they should get to say whatever they want to extend the same courtesy to everybody.
You must be new...

Not new...just naïve.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:43 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:15 am
TT2.0 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:24 pm Bunch of people who are never going to have to go in front of a live crowd AND on a taped special armchair quarterbacking what they think the greatest comic of my generation should say is ironically laughable.
And, yet, a group you routinely ask to watch your standup and provide feedback.

You've got a number of dads on here with children that live the hardship of being "other" every day. Might be a decent approach to chill the fuck out, given that context.

Fine to have a strong opinion, obviously. But getting personal like that was pretty uncalled for.

This group has supported TT in so many different ways that this is very disappointing when he knows this. Not to mention the suicide rates among that group. There's not a more marginalized group. No one commits suicide because they're a woman or because they're black. State governments aren't trying to effectively illegalize their existence. The comparison is idiotic. Sad, man.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:48 pm

HaulCitgo wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:18 am Crass and ridiculous is allowed in comedy. Likewise the criticism. The gag in the show is people don't listen to what he is saying and yet criticize. Not unlike many here. The context is gay and trans people showing up in person and threatening him. And you know it's true. Thus the humor. That and LGBTQ bigotry isn't the same as racial bigotry. One could make valid points on both sides there. Problem is not super funny just funny so feels like trying too hard to make points. Kinda why he says he's done with the trans material.

I haven't seen the new special yet, so I'm not commenting on it, but there was a lot of similar criticism from his previous special. I completely understood the backlash, as the comments about Trans people were tone deaf and ignorant, but it didn't come from a bad place. I heard Dave explain where the jokes came from, and he sat down and had drinks with a trans person (I can't remember if it was a man or woman) to better understand them, and had a good discussion. In the previous special, Dave's commentary made him seem old and out of touch, completely failing to understand new cultural realities and norms. It's like watching rapey 80s movies or comedy considered politically incorrect through today's cultural lens, where scenes and jokes that may have been funny or acceptable then just make us uncomfortable now, except Dave's jokes were cringe-worthy to half the population at the time he made them. That said, a hurtful joke told without malice is still going to hurt people.

I think we had this same discussion when the previous special came out and I probably made my points then, but I'm all for comedy crossing the lines of what is acceptable. I don't think any topic is off limits, but it is extremely difficult to land a good joke about the Holocaust, rape, pedophilia, etc... but it can be done, and when a comedian makes me laugh at one of those topics, they earn additional respect. And if a comedian attempts jokes about these topics, they better be funny.

I think someone posted the video here, but a comedian (Andrew Schultz, maybe?) went after a disabled heckler who was in a wheelchair. It would seem horrible out of context and if you just read the transcript, he'd seem like the worst person in the world. But watching the video, the guy loved it and kept firing back at the comedian. After the show, the guy thanked him for treating him like anyone else and not going soft on him because he has a disability. I think there is tremendous value in that. If Don Rickles or Anthony Jeselnik refused to make jokes about at someone's expense because of the way they looked or their race or whatever, I think THAT is a form of discrimination.

If jokes are punching down and are mean or hateful, by all means, call it out, but I see so many instances of people getting offended on behalf of other races/sexuality/etc... when people in those groups aren't offended, and it seems demeaning to "stand up" for people who don't want or need it. I'm going to watch Dave's special, because it's Dave, and he is one of the best ever. I'm totally open to the idea that the criticism is warranted, but I am getting sick of the media attacking comedians and others for comments completely out of context and blowing them up to be heinous people for one Tweet or statement taken out of context.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:14 pm

I have yet to watch the special too, but I'll probably do it tonight or tomorrow. I need to form my own conclusion about this because what I've seen so far is the media running hard with another narrative.

It's like the initial reports came out about it being bad and then thinkpiece after thinkpiece follows with more doom and gloom than the last. It's like, at some point people are screaming just to scream. It's gets tiring. It really does.

And don't take my words to mean I'm tired of the equality movement for trans rights. What I'm saying is that that energy needs to go to the right places against a government preventing the equality movement from happening. Not a comedian making a joke that potentially sucks because it's perceived to be "punching down." I feel like the outrage doesn't fit the infraction and only entrenches the sides more to their own opinions.

And really, my disgust is for the liberal types that read a headline that something is "bad" and then get all "HOW FUCKING COULD YOU" when you've said you have an option opposite of them. If you didn't like it, cool. If you did, cool. But my god. The race to be pure right now over this is ridiculous. (Not saying this is anyone here, but if the shoe fits...sorry not sorry.)

Syb, your commented reminded me of something. When I got back stateside my friend group here changed a bit. The girlfriend of my friend's brother is now dating another girl. And their friend is F-to-M trans.

So we went out to a board game cafe and played some games. At the end of the game their friend and I were 1/2 with the rest a distant 3/4/5. I made the comment "Cis males unite!" and gave a fist bump. Everyone laughed. It wasn't until a couple weeks later that I told everyone I didn't realize he was F-to-M. It made the joke funnier, obviously, and he was totally cool because he was being treated the same as others.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:49 pm

Johnnie wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:14 pmAnd don't take my words to mean I'm tired of the equality movement for trans rights. What I'm saying is that that energy needs to go to the right places against a government preventing the equality movement from happening. Not a comedian making a joke that potentially sucks because it's perceived to be "punching down." I feel like the outrage doesn't fit the infraction and only entrenches the sides more to their own opinions.

This ignores how wildly influential Dave Chappelle is and how the mere fact that him saying and then facing backlash causes people to take sides with a lot of people who would never make that joke still aligning with him. Like, for example, TT isn't here mounting a defense if Jerry Sandusky made the same hilarious Impossible Dicks jokes during a prison interview. The source matters.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:07 am

Really can’t get over what fucking ungrateful assholes some people are.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:10 am

mister d wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:49 pm
Johnnie wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:14 pmAnd don't take my words to mean I'm tired of the equality movement for trans rights. What I'm saying is that that energy needs to go to the right places against a government preventing the equality movement from happening. Not a comedian making a joke that potentially sucks because it's perceived to be "punching down." I feel like the outrage doesn't fit the infraction and only entrenches the sides more to their own opinions.
This ignores how wildly influential Dave Chappelle is and how the mere fact that him saying and then facing backlash causes people to take sides with a lot of people who would never make that joke still aligning with him. Like, for example, TT isn't here mounting a defense if Jerry Sandusky made the same hilarious Impossible Dicks jokes during a prison interview. The source matters.

He wouldn’t be here mounting a defense if comedians were encouraging people from the shitty side of Houston to overdose on pills.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:13 am

Watched the special. It wasn't good and the jokes were kinda lame. I had only one laugh out loud moment and several chuckles in between.

(The 'Thank you for your service' one and I'm sure it was only laugh out loud for me.)

Overall, he seemed to hit on everyone, especially white people. His Mike Pence gay jokes aren't bad, but predictable. And if his biggest knock from the outside is saying "I'm Team TERF" for siding with JK Rowling, then I get it.

I literally had no idea what a TERF was until he told me. (Trans-exclusionary radical feminist if you don't want to Google) So while he should get criticized, the prolonged overreaction and take after take from every last person with something to say (except Ja Rule) is so extra when you realize that a guy is being closed minded about a sensitive topic but not completely against the movement at all.

He's being a jerk. That's no doubt. But at some point the overwrought liberal sanctimony needs to turn down a notch when anyone says anything that isn't 100% in lockstep to everyone's sensibilities.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:18 am

No, we fucking don't. Not while people are out there killing themselves because of attitudes from scum like JK Rowling and Dave Chappelle and while governments are literally trying to make it illegal for them to exist. Fuck that.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:23 am

Giff wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:18 am No, we fucking don't. Not while people are out there killing themselves because of attitudes from scum like JK Rowling and Dave Chappelle and while governments are literally trying to make it illegal for them to exist. Fuck that.

And being killed by others.

Post by **brian** » Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:24 am

Johnnie wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:13 am Watched the special. It wasn't good and the jokes were kinda lame. I had only one laugh out loud moment and several chuckles in between.

(The 'Thank you for your service' one and I'm sure it was only laugh out loud for me.)

Overall, he seemed to hit on everyone, especially white people. His Mike Pence gay jokes aren't bad, but predictable. And if his biggest knock from the outside is saying "I'm Team TERF" for siding with JK Rowling, then I get it.

I literally had no idea what a TERF was until he told me. (Trans-exclusionary radical feminist if you don't want to Google) So while he should get criticized, the prolonged overreaction and take after take from every last person with something to say (except Ja Rule) is so extra when you realize that a guy is being closed minded about a sensitive topic but not completely against the movement at all.

He's being a jerk. That's no doubt. But at some point the overwrought liberal sanctimony needs to turn down a notch when anyone says anything that isn't 100% in lockstep to everyone's sensibilities.

The life expectancy of a black trans woman in the United States is 36 years old. Think about that. That's who Chapelle is saying has it better than him.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:29 am

Guys like Chappelle and Rogan and Burt Kriesher and literally any other mutherfucker whining about cancel culture just wants to cancel anyone else from having an opinion about what they say. That's what makes this so fucking infuriating on a high level, never mind the literally destructive transphobic attitude. Fuck off you multi-millionaires and fuck off anyone echoing them.

Post by **brian** » Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:01 am

Giff wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:29 am Guys like Chappelle and Rogan and Burt Kriesher and literally any other mutherfucker whining about cancel culture just wants to cancel anyone else from having an opinion about what they say. That's what makes this so fucking infuriating on a high level, never mind the literally destructive transphobic attitude. Fuck off you multi-millionaires and fuck off anyone echoing them.

"Cancel culture" = "I should be able to say what I want without consequences", even though that's literally never the world we've lived in. Ask Jimmy The Greek or Roy Campanella, etc., etc.

And yeah, anyone who has a megaphone and makes tens of millions of dollars like Joe Rogan, Jerry Seinfeld and Dave Chapelle whining about cancel culture can fuck right off.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:57 am

Johnnie wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:13 amHe's being a jerk. That's no doubt. But at some point the overwrought liberal sanctimony needs to turn down a notch when anyone says anything that isn't 100% in lockstep to everyone's sensibilities.

Tremendous both-sides-ism here.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:23 pm

Yeah, it's too bad Chappelle and others don't know somebody who's gone through pain as a result of trans-phobia. That sort of thing teaches empathy.

I have a friend - a guy I worked with for 20 years who had a trans child who committed suicide at 19 years old because of how difficult others made life. I had a beer with him and his wife when we passed through their town, about 3 months after the suicide. He was still a shell of himself from grief.

Post by **brian** » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:31 pm

My favorite queer artist with an accurate take.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:32 pm

mister d wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:57 am
Johnnie wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:13 amHe's being a jerk. That's no doubt. But at some point the overwrought liberal sanctimony needs to turn down a notch when anyone says anything that isn't 100% in lockstep to everyone's sensibilities.
Tremendous both-sides-ism here.

When I say that I mean it for every fucking thing ever. There are some screechy liberals over all parts of the internet who will go to great lengths to find an in to constantly make their tired points over and over. It's why I stopped following people like Shaun King on Twitter.

If every transgression ever is worthy of going nuclear over, then they all blend together and the reaction loses meaning.

Trans rights are seriously fucking important. But I'm going to get riled up over an anti trans bathroom law more than Dave Chappelle's jokes about them. If he's going to make jokes they better be done with precision and understanding. And if he fails miserably, call him out. He wrote a bad joke and should've done better. He didn't write the bill that became law and codified the actual discrimination.

I don't know how else to say it.