Bitcoin

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Fri Nov 11, 2022 12:19 pm

If you hold enormous wealth in a shaky new technological currency, why not diversify to prevent catastrophic loss? I get that they think it’s the future and don’t want to sell while it’s low, but put a billion or two in something stable with low returns, and if everything goes well, you end up with $40 billion instead of $50 billion, but if it goes bad, you still have a billion.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Fri Nov 11, 2022 12:27 pm

The Sybian wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 12:19 pm If you hold enormous wealth in a shaky new technological currency, why not diversify to prevent catastrophic loss? I get that they think it’s the future and don’t want to sell while it’s low, but put a billion or two in something stable with low returns, and if everything goes well, you end up with $40 billion instead of $50 billion, but if it goes bad, you still have a billion.

Hm. If one of these guys holding billions in crypto pulled out a billion or two, would that trigger a selloff?

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:20 pm

Steve of phpBB wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 12:27 pm
The Sybian wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 12:19 pm If you hold enormous wealth in a shaky new technological currency, why not diversify to prevent catastrophic loss? I get that they think it’s the future and don’t want to sell while it’s low, but put a billion or two in something stable with low returns, and if everything goes well, you end up with $40 billion instead of $50 billion, but if it goes bad, you still have a billion.
Hm. If one of these guys holding billions in crypto pulled out a billion or two, would that trigger a selloff?

Good point. Could they slowly sell off their holdings without causing a panic? I would think crypto isn't like public stocks where you have to disclose sales, right?

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:30 pm

The Sybian wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:20 pm
Steve of phpBB wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 12:27 pm
The Sybian wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 12:19 pm If you hold enormous wealth in a shaky new technological currency, why not diversify to prevent catastrophic loss? I get that they think it’s the future and don’t want to sell while it’s low, but put a billion or two in something stable with low returns, and if everything goes well, you end up with $40 billion instead of $50 billion, but if it goes bad, you still have a billion.
Hm. If one of these guys holding billions in crypto pulled out a billion or two, would that trigger a selloff?
Good point. Could they slowly sell off their holdings without causing a panic? I would think crypto isn't like public stocks where you have to disclose sales, right?

That's the sixteen billion dollar question. I don't know if crypto currency counts as a "security," but the definition of that term for the securities laws is really broad. So while there's probably no rules requiring periodic disclosures like a publicly traded company has to do, false or misleading statements might subject someone to liability for securities fraud. So if there's a guy pumping up his crypto currency by bragging about how much he has invested in it, and that "how much" changes, he' might end up having to disclose that somewhere.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:32 pm

Bitcoin was at $15,000 the week this thread started, and is on the verge of dropping back to that number for the first time since.

EDIT: sorry, that's a lie. for the first time since 2020. But who is checking facts, this is the Internet!

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Fri Nov 11, 2022 2:14 pm

Weren't Tom Brady and Gisele big investors into FTX?

Maybe that had something to do with the divorce too.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Fri Nov 11, 2022 2:23 pm

I think this guy's biggest issue that may be coming with the feds is he basically leveraged himself up using other people's money to make personal investments (probably something safer in a few cases as was mentioned upthread) which, while technically something he can do without regulation is pretty Ponzi-ish, and I don't think you can run a Ponzi scheme legally no matter how it's regulated. I might not have that right.

GoodKarma · Post by **GoodKarma** » Fri Nov 11, 2022 2:55 pm

Johnnie wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 2:14 pm Weren't Tom Brady and Gisele big investors into FTX?

Maybe that had something to do with the divorce too.

I heard a report on that the other day...allegedly he and Gisele had a ton of $$ in it. I'm not sure how much but enough for an equity stake and for both of them serve as "ambassadors" for the company.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Fri Nov 11, 2022 3:43 pm

Bitcoin is down 65% year to date. And a number of pro athletes are taking their salary in that form.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:53 am

I mean…WTF

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:23 am

The Bitcoin equivalent of the office space equivalent of the Superman 3 equivalent.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:27 am

tennbengal wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:53 am I mean…WTF

It looks like bankruptcy may be the least of his troubles.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Sat Nov 12, 2022 12:44 pm

Right? Except…does it being unregulated untether him from any criminal consequences?

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Sat Nov 12, 2022 12:59 pm

Seems like he might be safer in jail.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:24 pm

tennbengal wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 12:44 pm Right? Except…does it being unregulated untether him from any criminal consequences?

I think you can still fraud.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:38 pm

He’s in Argentina now.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Sat Nov 12, 2022 2:44 pm

tennbengal wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 12:44 pm Right? Except…does it being unregulated untether him from any criminal consequences?

I really don’t think so. Since lots of people buy crypto as an investment, it’s a security under state and federal law. So he’d be facing charges for securities fraud as well as ordinary criminal fraud.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Sat Nov 12, 2022 2:52 pm

Giff wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:38 pm He’s in Argentina now.

Maybe not.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Sat Nov 12, 2022 3:12 pm

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Sun Nov 13, 2022 11:44 am

Big news for the guy who played Badger on Breaking Bad

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Sun Nov 13, 2022 12:28 pm

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Mon Nov 14, 2022 3:07 pm

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Mon Nov 14, 2022 3:30 pm

Truer words have never been tweeted.

Pruitt3 · Post by **Pruitt3** » Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:22 pm

Aging has caused me physical and psychological grief...

But being old gave my wife and I the common sense to sit back and invest our money in things like banks, media/telecom companies (which are pretty much a monopoly up here) and other blue chips. None of this new fangled fancy shit for us.

I am just thankful that she stepped in a year or so ago and told my son to stop buying crypto.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:53 pm

The Sybian wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 12:19 pm If you hold enormous wealth in a shaky new technological currency, why not diversify to prevent catastrophic loss? I get that they think it’s the future and don’t want to sell while it’s low, but put a billion or two in something stable with low returns, and if everything goes well, you end up with $40 billion instead of $50 billion, but if it goes bad, you still have a billion.

Because hodl?

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:34 pm

P.D.X. wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:53 pm
The Sybian wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 12:19 pm If you hold enormous wealth in a shaky new technological currency, why not diversify to prevent catastrophic loss? I get that they think it’s the future and don’t want to sell while it’s low, but put a billion or two in something stable with low returns, and if everything goes well, you end up with $40 billion instead of $50 billion, but if it goes bad, you still have a billion.
Because hodl?

Very interesting article, but that sounds really stupid to me, but I’m risk averse.

L-Jam3 · Post by **L-Jam3** » Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:21 pm

If you haven't been following along with how fucked is this FTX debacle, here is an excellent primer.

Here's the money quote:

“Never in my career have I seen such a complete failure of corporate controls and such a complete absence of trustworthy financial information as occurred here,” wrote [the exchange’s new CEO, John] Ray in his filing. “This situation is unprecedented.”

This is John Ray, III, who presided over the bankruptcy of Enron.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:39 pm

LOL.

Baloney · Post by **Baloney** » Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:54 pm

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:58 pm

I love that these exist:

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:04 pm

Can't really put into words my thoughts about this, but here's a try. Isn't some of the issue with this *waves hands at everything* (FTX, crypto, blockchain, NFTs) that something that was pure speculation and unregulated, was begun to be marketed to the masses in a similar fashion to any other investment? Maybe that there isn't much specifically wrong with crypto, but that the risks were higher than what was marketed? Almost like jumping into the tiger enclosure at the zoo is dangerous, but you're free to do so as long as you know the risks?

I get that FTX seems to have been a front for Alameda, and that there's straight up theft there, but I'm not sure it's damning completely towards crypto in general.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:13 pm

govmentchedda wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:04 pm Can't really put into words my thoughts about this, but here's a try. Isn't some of the issue with this *waves hands at everything* (FTX, crypto, blockchain, NFTs) that something that was pure speculation and unregulated, was begun to be marketed to the masses in a similar fashion to any other investment? Maybe that there isn't much specifically wrong with crypto, but that the risks were higher than what was marketed? Almost like jumping into the tiger enclosure at the zoo is dangerous, but you're free to do so as long as you know the risks?

I get that FTX seems to have been a front for Alameda, and that there's straight up theft there, but I'm not sure it's damning completely towards crypto in general.

Well, the zoos I've been to put up plenty of guard rails and build enclosures to minimize the risk, so that doesn't really make sense to me. Maybe jumping into a pond in Florida and just seeing what happens? And when the people who are selling it are so gung ho and telling you that you HAVE to get in on the ground floor screams pyramid to me. Then "strong hands" and HODL because I think a lot of people knew it was a sham but if there were selloffs earlier then this wouldn't have gotten to where it is and would be in a better shape. Get the bad actors out and hope for the best. Terrible way to run any kind of economic instrument, to be sure.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:16 pm

The media has seemed to treat this guy with kid gloves. Reminds me of this Chappelle Show skit

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:41 pm

A_B wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:13 pm
govmentchedda wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:04 pm Can't really put into words my thoughts about this, but here's a try. Isn't some of the issue with this *waves hands at everything* (FTX, crypto, blockchain, NFTs) that something that was pure speculation and unregulated, was begun to be marketed to the masses in a similar fashion to any other investment? Maybe that there isn't much specifically wrong with crypto, but that the risks were higher than what was marketed? Almost like jumping into the tiger enclosure at the zoo is dangerous, but you're free to do so as long as you know the risks?

I get that FTX seems to have been a front for Alameda, and that there's straight up theft there, but I'm not sure it's damning completely towards crypto in general.
Well, the zoos I've been to put up plenty of guard rails and build enclosures to minimize the risk, so that doesn't really make sense to me. Maybe jumping into a pond in Florida and just seeing what happens? And when the people who are selling it are so gung ho and telling you that you HAVE to get in on the ground floor screams pyramid to me. Then "strong hands" and HODL because I think a lot of people knew it was a sham but if there were selloffs earlier then this wouldn't have gotten to where it is and would be in a better shape. Get the bad actors out and hope for the best. Terrible way to run any kind of economic instrument, to be sure.

Florida swamp is definitely a better analogy than the tiger enclosure at the zoo. You're not wrong about it being sold as something you have to get in on the ground floor, strong hands, and HODL. Those all strike me as sham promoting behaviors as well. I don't really know where I'm going with my thoughts except to say that it wasn't supposed to ever be any sort of regulated economic interest. That's the whole point of crypto.

Baloney · Post by **Baloney** » Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:55 pm

govmentchedda wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:04 pm Can't really put into words my thoughts about this, but here's a try. Isn't some of the issue with this *waves hands at everything* (FTX, crypto, blockchain, NFTs) that something that was pure speculation and unregulated, was begun to be marketed to the masses in a similar fashion to any other investment? Maybe that there isn't much specifically wrong with crypto, but that the risks were higher than what was marketed? Almost like jumping into the tiger enclosure at the zoo is dangerous, but you're free to do so as long as you know the risks?

I get that FTX seems to have been a front for Alameda, and that there's straight up theft there, but I'm not sure it's damning completely towards crypto in general.

Coffeezilla has done a couple on interviews with SBF were he tries to tie him down on the comingling of funds that people did not sign up for.

Post by **brian** » Tue Dec 13, 2022 2:01 pm

wlu_lax6 wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:16 pm The media has seemed to treat this guy with kid gloves. Reminds me of this Chappelle Show skit

You mean the Jew-run media? </Ye>

(Strong, strong orange font.)

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Tue Dec 13, 2022 2:26 pm

And that lack of any regulation is why I never parted way with any investment money for any of this. It has always seemed like a pyramid scheme to me and maybe it's the podcasts I listen to, but I've heard of at least 3 MAJOR crypto blockchains that have collapsed, taking millions of dollars with them. And I'm talking about going back at least 5 years.

Blockchain systems going belly-up under highly suspect/suspicious circumstances isn't new. What's new, I guess, is the scale of it all, with their proliferation and dudes like Damon pimping it at the Super Bowl.

Pruitt IV · Post by **Pruitt IV** » Tue Dec 13, 2022 5:07 pm

Johnnie wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:58 pm I love that these exist:

I have long felt that many, many financial journalists are mere shills.

Canadians will remember the Bre-X scandal. In a nutshell, it was a mining company that went from penny stock to being a $6 billion company based on media hype orchestrated by the head of the company.

Bre-X

That money disappeared in a split second.

market regulators and analysts in Canada and the United States are wondering how such a comparatively primitive scam – foreign gold dust "salted" into otherwise worthless chunks of jungle rock, according to an independent consultant – hoodwinked experts who are supposed to use their skepticism and insight to protect investors.

Similar story with Nortel stock up here. I trust these people as far as I can throw them.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Tue Dec 13, 2022 6:33 pm

Man, SBF indicted! I'd love to meet the Columbo in the Financial Crimes Unit who cracked this case.

Post by **brian** » Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:41 pm

Dudes gonna get the last laugh after he serves a 5 year sentence in a minimum security federal pen and still walks away with tens of millions of dollars squirreled away in the Maldives or some shit.