NCAA FB 2023

[A_B]

Well we haven’t even touched on the other part of this argument which is - who is out there that is going to be clearly better?

Clearly better is certainly debatable, but they (donors) can probably afford almost any coach’s buyout cost.

As long as crude prices are high.

Oh all these prices are crude.

[brian]

With a win over Maryland Saturday, Michigan would become first team in CFB history to 1,000 wins.

[A_B]

With a win over Maryland Saturday, Michigan would become first team in CFB history to 1,000 wins.

Temporarily at least.

[Nonlinear FC]

More evidence Stalion was (likely) operating as a lone actor.

But, yeah, let's vacate wins.

https://apnews.com/article/michigan-sig ... d77b474b7d

And I'll lawyers chime in, but as someone that works in an office that deals with FOIA requests... The idea that MI's AD would cook books and/or refuse or mess with a FOIA is pretty fucking ridiculous. I'm not going to jail or face huge fines to protect ANYONE. The staffers and other entities at MI dealing with the NCAA or FOIA are not going to put their careers on the line. I'm saying this because last week there was an implication in here that you can't trust the news that phones and computers were turned over... Which is a pretty ridiculous assertion if you've ever been on the other end of these types of investigations. It just doesn't go down like that.

But, yeah, the narrative that the entire MI program is dirty is the one people are enjoying spreading, so we'll see if anyone beside MI "die hards" talk about this prior to Friday.

[Giff]

LOL I don't have a dog in this fight at all, but that's not anywhere close to being evidence he was acting solo. Do you think they would actually leave a paper trail as easy to follow as an expense report?

[Nonlinear FC]

And yet the idea that he was acting alone is scoffed at with ZERO evidence to the contrary. ZERO. Please see my edit about phones and computers.

[mister d]

Actually, they called him "The Guy Who Works For Us That We Never See Around on Saturdays" because this one time ...

[brian]

I’m not saying this is likely but it certainly seems possible that Stallions was doing this as a project or proof of concept. I’m not an NCAA lawyer but if he collected data on signs and play calls but never shared any of that data with the rest of the coaching staff then it’s either not a violation or the most banal of violations at best.

[tennbengal]

I’m not saying this is likely but it certainly seems possible that Stallions was doing this as a project or proof of concept. I’m not an NCAA lawyer but if he collected data on signs and play calls but never shared any of that data with the rest of the coaching staff then it’s either not a violation or the most banal of violations at best.

I promise you all I am not really following this story closely - but have I not seen pictures of him literally standing beside UM defensive coordinator helping to call in plays after seeing the offensive alignment? I mean...

[EnochRoot]

This reminds me of an employee for some cybersecurity firm who goes and performs a series of penetration tests on a company who never asked for it.

The company who hired the employee would face serious repercussions, and the employee would not only be fired, he'd be facing criminal charges of trespassing, theft of corporate information, etc.

[brian]

I’m not saying this is likely but it certainly seems possible that Stallions was doing this as a project or proof of concept. I’m not an NCAA lawyer but if he collected data on signs and play calls but never shared any of that data with the rest of the coaching staff then it’s either not a violation or the most banal of violations at best.

I promise you all I am not really following this story closely - but have I not seen pictures of him literally standing beside UM defensive coordinator helping to call in plays after seeing the offensive alignment? I mean...

I’ve not see that but sure maybe. The point is the NCAA has to provide proof that even if there was a scheme to steal signals that those were shared with the coaching staff somehow.

[EnochRoot]

I’m not saying this is likely but it certainly seems possible that Stallions was doing this as a project or proof of concept. I’m not an NCAA lawyer but if he collected data on signs and play calls but never shared any of that data with the rest of the coaching staff then it’s either not a violation or the most banal of violations at best.

I promise you all I am not really following this story closely - but have I not seen pictures of him literally standing beside UM defensive coordinator helping to call in plays after seeing the offensive alignment? I mean...

I’ve not see that but sure maybe. The point is the NCAA has to provide proof that even if there was a scheme to steal signals that those were shared with the coaching staff somehow.

They do? Why? It would seem to me that if a rogue employee surreptitiously observed/stole a competitor's confidential information, whether or not they implemented the back-half of the plan only matters as to how many additional games the HC gets suspended.

[brian]

So if you come up with a plan to rob a bank, but don’t rob a bank you should be charged with bank robbery?

Orwell would be proud.

[mister d]

Except in that analogy he did rob the bank as a Michigan employee, Michigan is just claiming he didn’t share the money.

[brian]

Except in that analogy he did rob the bank as a Michigan employee, Michigan is just claiming he didn’t share the money.

That analogy isn’t quite right either. I doubt he concocted a scheme this involved and ongoing without sharing any information but the fact remains in my opinion the NCAA has to prove that the stolen signs were used/shared with the defensive coaches for any kind of serious penalty. Remember that the only other time something like this happened the offending coach’s penalty? Missing one half of one game.

[EnochRoot]

Except in that analogy he did rob the bank as a Michigan employee, Michigan is just claiming he didn’t share the money.

That analogy isn’t quite right either. I doubt he concocted a scheme this involved and ongoing without sharing any information but the fact remains in my opinion the NCAA has to prove that the stolen signs were used/shared with the defensive coaches for any kind of serious penalty. Remember that the only other time something like this happened the offending coach’s penalty? Missing one half of one game.

Even if they didn't ask him to do it, if Michigan provided him with the means and the motive, then why does it matter if the attack worked?

eta: also - Intellectual property laws on line 1.

[brian]

Intellectual property? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds. This is football, not business. Remember you CAN steal signs. You can’t just advance scout in person to do it. That’s the only thing at issue here.

[Nonlinear FC]

I’m not saying this is likely but it certainly seems possible that Stallions was doing this as a project or proof of concept. I’m not an NCAA lawyer but if he collected data on signs and play calls but never shared any of that data with the rest of the coaching staff then it’s either not a violation or the most banal of violations at best.

I promise you all I am not really following this story closely - but have I not seen pictures of him literally standing beside UM defensive coordinator helping to call in plays after seeing the offensive alignment? I mean...

Every team that has a sign stealer that looks like he has the goods places that guy near the play caller. That's part of how this works... Because it's totally legal to "steal" signs.

I'm not sure I'm following the logic here brian. He pretty clearly shared his knowledge with the staff, which he gained using his stupid iPhone video gathering network.

And as I've said many times, it deserves some punishment. It's the idea that because he gathered this information in a "unique" way it is the biggest scandal in the last 25 years that I find ridiculous. And maddening that so many people have fallen for the ESPN-driven histrionics.

[brian]

I hadn’t been following it closely enough to know there was proof the signs stolen from in-person scouting were used.

[sancarlos]

Whether you are circling the wagons with the Michigan fans or are skeptical of their innocence, you’d have to say this drama with analyst Paul Finebaum is… something!

Paul Finebaum vs. Michigan, ‘Sniveling’ Wolverines Fans Is Highly Entertaining

[Nonlinear FC]

Finebaum is and always will be a cunt. And a troll.

[govmentchedda]

Harbaugh accepts his 3 game suspension from B1G.

[Nonlinear FC]

Yeah, was just coming to post. I'm whatever about it. Going the legal route wasn't going to be good for anybody (imagine what would come out in Discovery in a protracted battle in the court.)

The fact that he maintains his ability to run the program and that the program has two amazing coordinators makes the game day role for JH symbolic in some ways.

And this is the worst case for OSU. Now they are kind of in a no-win situation. If I'm Ryan Day, I want JH on the opposing sideline.

[mister d]

Just another instance of a completely innocent person pleading guilty because they don't have the means to fight the charges. Upsetting.

[A_B]

Yeah, was just coming to post. I'm whatever about it. Going the legal route wasn't going to be good for anybody (imagine what would come out in Discovery in a protracted battle in the court.)

The fact that he maintains his ability to run the program and that the program has two amazing coordinators makes the game day role for JH symbolic in some ways.

And this is the worst case for OSU. Now they are kind of in a no-win situation. If I'm Ryan Day, I want JH on the opposing sideline.

Um...exactly? It may not be an admission of guilt, but it's an admission that they really don't want any more digging into this.

[Nonlinear FC]

Cuts both ways. And with the law firm UM brought to the dance, you can you bet your top and bottom dollar this wasn't just going to be what happened on the UM side. This was going to dig up dirt across the entire league. One of the reasons so many coaches won't go on the record to throw M under the bus is the high likelihood there was other shady shit like Rutgers and OSU sharing their advanced scouting with Purdue prior to the B1G championship game last year.

[A_B]

It's gonna be awesome when the leaks happen, though, surely we can all agree on that.

[mister d]

So if this was the act of a lone wolf, they weren't uniquely wrong and are no different than any other program, why not fight it?

[Nonlinear FC]

So if this was the act of a lone wolf, they weren't uniquely wrong and are no different than any other program, why not fight it?

Because the program broke a rule. As I've said all along, they deserve to be punished, I just think they went over the top.

MI was fighting the B1G suspension due to lack of due process and the rule they used (sportsmanship clause) is too nebulous to have legal footing. That was probably* a winner in court, but, see the discussion above... It was going to get ugly.

* Maybe. I don't fucking know. But it was certainly not laughable and the firm the brought in doesn't fuck around.

[mister d]

More evidence Stalion was (likely) operating as a lone actor.

So Harbaugh is eating a 3 game suspension despite personally doing nothing wrong?

[Nonlinear FC]

All along, there is no proof that Harbaugh knew what Stalions was doing. It's the new NCAA clause that it doesn't matter, happened under his watch, he deserves punishment.

I guess maybe that isn't being stressed enough? The head coach of any NCAA team where someone/anyone on the staff breaks rules is going to come under fire if the NCAA gets notified, investigates and substantiates the allegations.

You can see where what just happened here could very easily turn into a massive slippery slope, but that's a digression.

Yes, this essentially a plea deal to just end the legal nonsense and try to move on for the rest of the year. It also means that if they win The Game, he will back for the B1G championship and possible CFP game.

[mister d]

So this ends everything, no further digging into how a staffer could afford to take these trips, etc? That seems like a win.

[Nonlinear FC]

So this ends everything, no further digging into how a staffer could afford to take these trips, etc? That seems like a win.

Unless I missed something, the whole point is that he was buying tickets for others to attend games, shoot iPhone video and then try to decode plays/signs. This wasn't some hugely costly endeavor. And one of the ways it was so stupid is that he bought the tickets under his own name. He (maybe/probably?) attended a game at CMU and even if never visit the MACtion thread, you'll know from context clues that's not a flight.

But, legally, yeah. Until the NCAA finishes it's investigation in 2027 or whenever and they do some performative bullshit. (their track record is really bad on punishment.) Again, unless I'm misreading it, this would end the legal entaglement/threat.

B1G has been under a pretty steady stream of negative press for how they handled this. Not to mention the behind the scenes sabre rattling from MI and its lawyers the last few days. They also, as I said, don't want a bunch of dirt on other programs getting aired out in court. At a minimum, the circumstances around the PUR-OSU-RUT was going to get the full disclosure/deposition treatment.

MI knows they are culpable by association with Stalions don't want discovery either. They also really just want to move on and as I said, him being on the sideline isn't all that important to their success. He's a CEO. Jess Minter and Sherrone Moore are the ones calling the plays on both sides of the ball.

[govmentchedda]

So this ends everything, no further digging into how a staffer could afford to take these trips, etc? That seems like a win.

NCAA investigation isn't over.

[mister d]

So this ends everything, no further digging into how a staffer could afford to take these trips, etc? That seems like a win.

Unless I missed something, the whole point is that he was buying tickets for others to attend games, shoot iPhone video and then try to decode plays/signs. This wasn't some hugely costly endeavor. And one of the ways it was so stupid is that he bought the tickets under his own name. He (maybe/probably?) attended a game at CMU and even if never visit the MACtion thread, you'll know from context clues that's not a flight.

Are college football tickets a lot less expensive than I'd expect? I just saw the $55K salary and figured he wouldn't eat the cost?

[Nonlinear FC]

So this ends everything, no further digging into how a staffer could afford to take these trips, etc? That seems like a win.

Unless I missed something, the whole point is that he was buying tickets for others to attend games, shoot iPhone video and then try to decode plays/signs. This wasn't some hugely costly endeavor. And one of the ways it was so stupid is that he bought the tickets under his own name. He (maybe/probably?) attended a game at CMU and even if never visit the MACtion thread, you'll know from context clues that's not a flight.

Are college football tickets a lot less expensive than I'd expect? I just saw the $55K salary and figured he wouldn't eat the cost?

As has been well-chronicled, this guy was/is nuts. Just a few highlights: He slept in his car and rented out his house on AirBnB to subsidize his ability to volunteer at MI unpaid for 5 years. During this time he was alleged to be buying these tickets. He also ran a failed vacuum repair "business" to this same end. He wrote a 600-word manifesto on his plans for the program when he eventually got into "power."

He also, reportedly, received a decent amount money from the sale of a house in Cali 3 or 4 years ago.

[P.D.X.]

At least sports is keeping him out of politics (I assume)

[EnochRoot]

Intellectual property? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds. This is football, not business. Remember you CAN steal signs. You can’t just advance scout in person to do it. That’s the only thing at issue here.

Why is a billion dollar industry not business? They agree to the rules on the football field, where sign stealing can occur (in the game). Otherwise, why wouldn’t intellectual property laws ascertain to this situation? The FBI got involved because he was stealing information across state lines, right?

ETA - Turns out the FBI was involved in the case surrounding recently fired OC, Matt Weiss.

[A_B]

So this ends everything, no further digging into how a staffer could afford to take these trips, etc? That seems like a win.

Unless I missed something, the whole point is that he was buying tickets for others to attend games, shoot iPhone video and then try to decode plays/signs. This wasn't some hugely costly endeavor. And one of the ways it was so stupid is that he bought the tickets under his own name. He (maybe/probably?) attended a game at CMU and even if never visit the MACtion thread, you'll know from context clues that's not a flight.

Are college football tickets a lot less expensive than I'd expect? I just saw the $55K salary and figured he wouldn't eat the cost?

I don’t remember last time I actually paid for a ticket to football or basketball games. But generally they aren’t terrible at face value.

[duff]

Intellectual property? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds. This is football, not business. Remember you CAN steal signs. You can’t just advance scout in person to do it. That’s the only thing at issue here.

Why is a billion dollar industry not business? They agree to the rules on the football field, where sign stealing can occur (in the game). Otherwise, why wouldn’t intellectual property laws ascertain to this situation? The FBI got involved because he was stealing information across state lines, right?

ETA - Turns out the FBI was involved in the case surrounding recently fired OC, Matt Weiss.

Until the pay the employees on the field, it is not a business.