Ukraine

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:49 am

According to reports, Putin has retreated to his super secret forest palace because of unrest after declaring Russian civilians for the draft.

Ruh roh.

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:42 pm

People in the business also saying it may not matter much because they'll be undertrained and low willingness to fight. .

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:20 pm

Russia wanted their own Vietnam

Pruitt3 · Post by **Pruitt3** » Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:51 pm

Gunpowder wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:20 pm Russia wanted their own Vietnam

Oh, that was Afghanistan.

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:56 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... eline-leak

Seems like an escalation. How much cash is flowing out of that pipe and how much not flowing and spent on nord stream 2. Those are massive infrastructure projects to cancel and destroy. Trillions?

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:33 am

General petreaus was pretty damning about Russias chances on Sunday news. Basically said the war is lost and Putin has no way out. Laid out what he implied was the certain future of larger and larger groups Russian military surrendering. Said kherson would fall and then eventually Ukraine would have to decide how much of the eastern separatist regions to retake. Also said Putin has been told that if he uses a nuke then the us and NATO would destroy every Russian military equipment and troops in Ukraine and every Navy ship in black sea but would not respond with nukes of their own.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:46 pm

Yeah, I've seen multiple experts say that Putin's nuclear threats are all bullshit for the reason Petraeus states... NATO/US would absolutely fuck them up and they don't have the means to stop it. Would immediately end all of this shit and obviously not in his favor.

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:33 am

Feels like a war deployment. Johnnie maybe can make me feel better

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:38 am

Could be prep for deployment, but more likely a show of force and a reminder to Putin that we are in the area.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:50 am

Nonlinear FC wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:46 pm Yeah, I've seen multiple experts say that Putin's nuclear threats are all bullshit for the reason Petraeus states... NATO/US would absolutely fuck them up and they don't have the means to stop it. Would immediately end all of this shit and obviously not in his favor.

Doesn't this tie back into "what if Putin is sick"?

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:07 pm

One tug boat gonna pull that thing?

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:03 pm

mister d wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:50 am
Nonlinear FC wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:46 pm Yeah, I've seen multiple experts say that Putin's nuclear threats are all bullshit for the reason Petraeus states... NATO/US would absolutely fuck them up and they don't have the means to stop it. Would immediately end all of this shit and obviously not in his favor.
Doesn't this tie back into "what if Putin is sick"?

Yeah, sure... The other thing all these experts I've listened to say is that you can't assume anything, especially with a dictator with his back to the wall. And... other factors... You have to assume for the worst contingency, which (again, according to guys like Patraeus and other generals) is what the US is really good at... Planning and executing.

(What militaries aren't good at, as has been proven time and time again, is state-building. We can fuck you up, and we can occupy and rebuild, but after that... Lots of examples where we are not good at the long-term.)

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:01 am

Nonlinear FC wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:03 pm
mister d wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:50 am
Nonlinear FC wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:46 pm Yeah, I've seen multiple experts say that Putin's nuclear threats are all bullshit for the reason Petraeus states... NATO/US would absolutely fuck them up and they don't have the means to stop it. Would immediately end all of this shit and obviously not in his favor.
Doesn't this tie back into "what if Putin is sick"?
Yeah, sure... The other thing all these experts I've listened to say is that you can't assume anything, especially with a dictator with his back to the wall. And... other factors... You have to assume for the worst contingency, which (again, according to guys like Patraeus and other generals) is what the US is really good at... Planning and executing.

(What militaries aren't good at, as has been proven time and time again, is state-building. We can fuck you up, and we can occupy and rebuild, but after that... Lots of examples where we are not good at the long-term.)

Yeah, after Germany and Japan, we don't have a good track record. In most cases, we create a worse situation than we defeated.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Thu Oct 06, 2022 1:50 pm

So, is it inevitable that Putin bombs a nuclear reactor at some point? Then, what?

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:03 pm

sancarlos wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 1:50 pm So, is it inevitable that Putin bombs a nuclear reactor at some point? Then, what?

This is why I'm not real happy with all the folks in my Twitter feed so blithely blowing off the possibility of any kind of negotiated solution.

Perhaps Putin is completely unwilling to consider any reasonable negotiated solution now, I don't know. All I know is that he's saying crazy shit in public - but has there ever been a war where the belligerents didn't scream "we will fight until total victory" right up to the point where they sign an armistice?

Maybe I'm a complete moron, but Elon Musk's proposal from the other day - that people in the eastern regions be given a chance to vote on what country they'd like to be part of - makes sense to me, if it could really be put into practice. The Ukraine-Russia border was created as an internal border, and if people on one side of it really would rather be part of the other side, why shouldn't they?

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 7:51 am

Pruitt3 · Post by **Pruitt3** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 8:13 am

The '72 Dolphins wouldn't have let this happen.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 8:21 am

Steve of phpBB wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:03 pm
sancarlos wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 1:50 pm So, is it inevitable that Putin bombs a nuclear reactor at some point? Then, what?
This is why I'm not real happy with all the folks in my Twitter feed so blithely blowing off the possibility of any kind of negotiated solution.

Perhaps Putin is completely unwilling to consider any reasonable negotiated solution now, I don't know. All I know is that he's saying crazy shit in public - but has there ever been a war where the belligerents didn't scream "we will fight until total victory" right up to the point where they sign an armistice?

Maybe I'm a complete moron, but Elon Musk's proposal from the other day - that people in the eastern regions be given a chance to vote on what country they'd like to be part of - makes sense to me, if it could really be put into practice. The Ukraine-Russia border was created as an internal border, and if people on one side of it really would rather be part of the other side, why shouldn't they?

How about Mexico takes this approach to the SW?

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 8:52 am

Nonlinear FC wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 8:21 am
Steve of phpBB wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:03 pm
sancarlos wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 1:50 pm So, is it inevitable that Putin bombs a nuclear reactor at some point? Then, what?
This is why I'm not real happy with all the folks in my Twitter feed so blithely blowing off the possibility of any kind of negotiated solution.

Perhaps Putin is completely unwilling to consider any reasonable negotiated solution now, I don't know. All I know is that he's saying crazy shit in public - but has there ever been a war where the belligerents didn't scream "we will fight until total victory" right up to the point where they sign an armistice?

Maybe I'm a complete moron, but Elon Musk's proposal from the other day - that people in the eastern regions be given a chance to vote on what country they'd like to be part of - makes sense to me, if it could really be put into practice. The Ukraine-Russia border was created as an internal border, and if people on one side of it really would rather be part of the other side, why shouldn't they?

How about Mexico takes this approach to the SW?

1. That border was created by agreement between independent states after a war. It wasn’t created as an internal boundary.

2. It doesn’t seem that the people of California, Arizona, New Mexico, or Texas want to be part of Mexico. Migration, legal and illegal, seems to mostly go to the north.

3. If the people of the border states really did want to become part of Mexico instead, that should be their right. (Assuming there was enough of a consensus that “what the people want” has meaning.)

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 8:54 am

I'm being somewhat facetious, but you are setting a very dodgy precedent with this going forward. I'll leave it there.

L-Jam3 · Post by **L-Jam3** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 9:18 am

Nonlinear FC wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 8:54 am I'm being somewhat facetious, but you are setting a very dodgy precedent with this going forward. I'll leave it there.

How is what’s happening in the border states any different than the Anchluss?

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 10:40 am

Pruitt3 wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 8:13 am The '72 Dolphins wouldn't have let this happen.

I laughed

Post by **brian** » Sat Oct 08, 2022 8:08 pm

I mean at least the military dolphins aren’t deserting.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Tue Oct 11, 2022 11:05 am

Another side story that is actually really interesting and increasingly important: Almost all of the former Soviet Republic countries are very noticeably silent about Russia's war in Ukraine. Belarus is the lone country (leader) willing to stick with Putin on this.

1) They don't want the smoke. So far, they are able to keep their hands clean and avoid sanctions.

2) Russia's justification for invading Ukraine is mainly around protecting Russian-speaking natives from bullshit allegations they were being persecuted. Guess what all of these former republics have in abundance? Not a lot of brotherly love going around when you invade a country under those pretenses.

Just another sign of how much on an island Putin is right now. When you can't count on Kazakhstan, you know you've got issues.

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:43 pm

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:44 pm

Uh oh. Not good at all.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukrai ... 1b52ff9d52

KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — A Russian missile barrage on the Ukrainian power grid sent the war spilling over into neighboring countries Tuesday, hitting NATO member Poland and cutting electricity to much of Moldova.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:53 pm

I thought Gianni Infantino just said to cut it out.

Tom 1860 · Post by **Tom 1860** » Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:58 pm

It is pretty impressive to miss one country and hit another... How much did they miss by?

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:03 pm

Rex wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:53 pm I thought Gianni Infantino just said to cut it out.

I could see Putin venting his anger over Russia being ineligible for the WC by doing some shit to overshadow it.

L-Jam3 · Post by **L-Jam3** » Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:15 am

Britney's free. One for one with the arms dealer.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:20 am

this country is relentlessly pro-gun, isn't it

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:23 am

Rex wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:20 am this country is relentlessly pro-gun, isn't it

The joke's great, but I'm OK with this outcome. The US actively trying to get a black, gay woman home is a good thing.

ETA: It would be good if we got the other guy, too, don't mean to diminish his situation.

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:26 am

I'm not. Britney griner for the merchant of death? How many people are gonna die for Britney to play basketball? No thanks.

Would Joe Biden give a fuck if I was locked up in Russia for weed. I think we already know.

L-Jam3 · Post by **L-Jam3** » Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:30 am

I'm still not convinced the Russians didn't plant evidence on her for the very reason to free Bout. I still don't know why we are just assuming Russia is acting in good faith at any point in this.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:33 am

L-Jam3 wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:30 am I'm still not convinced the Russians didn't plant evidence on her for the very reason to free Bout. I still don't know why we are just assuming Russia is acting in good faith at any point in this.

Right, which is kinda my point. I totally get that celebrity had a lot to do with it but still I can't get so far over as Citgo is. Not a straight up in terms of magnitude of offenses of course but I think the message is understandable.

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:36 am

Because it's hard to believe Britney smokes weed? Could be but not much of a stretch there.

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:39 am

Not only that but Russia is struggling with access to arms in it's war. They're having to go to Iran and north Korea for weapons. Wtf?

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:47 am

I'm good with the trade, but can you imagine being someone (or the family of someone) in prison in the US for drug possession?

L-Jam3 · Post by **L-Jam3** » Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:47 am

I understand your reaction to this, Citgo. Totally. But I look at with any action with Putin and Russia, they're going to be negotiating with realpolitik. They wanted their man back, and their best way to do that was a prisoner exchange. They realized the only Americans of value that were still in Russia after the military buildup were women baseketballers. I have to figure they were focusing on them, and Britney Griner was the perfect mark (I can't think of a better word). She's a famous black, gay, American athlete. At their best, they were focusing on her or her American teammates, at worst they planted it.

They got us. I'm loath to give them credit, but in this case, they won. We have to take the L on this one.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:00 am

I’m happy for Griner and her family, but it encourages Putin and other dictators. They can get their horrible actors back by kidnapping Americans and trading. Not to mention, pretty bad timing for Ukrainians to give Putin his arms dealer back.

You can’t negotiate with terrorists.