The Swamp

Reminds me of the outpouring of fond affection when Michael Jackson died. The child lovin’ weirdness got memory holed.

brian wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:51 pm But you guys go on with the hero worship. Keep dogging on the Lions/Patricia while you do. I think I’ve been consistent and I can live with that.

But Patricia LOOKS like a rapist, Kobe looks like a really nice guy!

I see your point, but if you remember back to the time shorlty after Kobe was accused, people went after him far harder than they went after Patricia. Kobe's rape allegation came out in 2003? Really, that long ago? Give Patricia 17 years as a media darling, great mentor, etc... and people will give him a pass on the rape allegations too.

It's funny, my daughter was asking if Kobe was a nice guy, and my initial reaction was how great a guy he supposedly was. Then 20 minutes later, I remembered, "wait, didn't he force his cock into a 19 year old hotel employee against her will and buy his now wife a 12 million dollar ring?"

I think most random mentions of post-NBA Kobe revolved around him being at least a selfish chucker, at medium a complete a-hole, and at most a criminal. And now that he’s dead if people want to bring up good things about him for a while because he supposedly bettered himself I think thats exactly how it should work.

I've never particularly liked Kobe, I think he was mostly an asshole as a teammate, and I believe he raped that woman. But I also concede that he was an amazing athlete, an amazing competitor, an incredibly hard worker, and someone who seemed to have turned his life into something pretty positive after 2003.

I also think it's OK for folks to praise him right now and mourn his sudden death and his daughter's and be sad for a while.

I just woke up to a bunch of push notes and texts from family and friends on my phone. My initial reaction is how old the guy is. Plus that he was with his daughter. It's really, really sad.

Of course I shoot to this thread to see other's reactions. Obviously his past is brought up. And it's brought up in some extra woke way. But ya know what's funny? There is a segment of woke that'll label besmirching a dead African American as racist. So, keep up the wokeness. It's helpful.

Like, we just celebrated MLK Day a week ago. Read up on his personal life. Not exactly shiny. But there is still a reverence for a person that did a lot for people and is a symbol to so many.

I'm not saying that Kobe is a modern day MLK. I'm just saying that no one is perfect and people do some shitty things. It's not a reason to just go "pffft....whatever" when they pass away.

I just look at this and think his wife just lost her husband, someone she’s been with for a time longer than his grossly abberent act in Colorado, and her 9 year old daughter. At least 3 other families are now completely devastated in the most public way possible. And that’s just utterly heartbreaking. So I figure I’ll hold off on the anal rape discussion until he’s at least in the ground.

His wife is super hot and has a $1 million diamond ring after his acquittal so you might want to jump in there sooner.

She shouldn't have been suspended. But did she really have to tweet that? We all know what he did and what he was accused of. But to be all "Oh my! I only shared a story! How come everyone is getting mad at me?" is lacking in so much self awareness.

Washington Post journalist is suspended after tweeting a link to a 2016 story about Kobe Bryant's rape case just hours after he died in helicopter crash

brian wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:47 pm Does no one want to mention there’s at least a somewhat decent chance he’s a rapist who got away with it for all these years?

I’m with Brian. I feel bad he passed, but some are putting him in Sainthood.

Also, 8 others died on that helicopter. Including a family.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:11 am She shouldn't have been suspended. But did she really have to tweet that? We all know what he did and what he was accused of. But to be all "Oh my! I only shared a story! How come everyone is getting mad at me?" is lacking in so much self awareness.

Washington Post journalist is suspended after tweeting a link to a 2016 story about Kobe Bryant's rape case just hours after he died in helicopter crash

Probably should go a little deeper than the Daily Mail here. She posted a screenshot of her email inbox that included email addresses and contact info of people who had been contacting her.

Somnez eventually took down her posts and reporter Matthew Keys said the Post is investigating whether her tweets violated their social media policy. He later elaborated that the Post is specifically looking at whether Somnez breached their policy by posting a screengrab from her email inbox that showed the full names of her Twitter critics.

(To be clear, I have no personal problem of exposing the name of someone who is heaving personal attacks at you -- there has to be some level of responsibility, especially if you're consenting to show off your email address to a reporter -- but I can also see how the Post feels it has to adhere to the rule, especially if she exposed the name or contact info of someone in her inbox who is/was a source)

Oh, well shit. Here I was reading my timeline and saw a tweet from a fairly lefty dude getting infuriated that WaPo dare suspend her but other outlets wouldn't suspend stuff from their reporters. He shared the Daily Mail link.

Yea, she should have sent the screenshots to local authorities out of fear she'd be attacked or something.

Society lionizes a person because he was pathological about a game.

psunate77 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:22 amI feel bad he passed

Irony

If you get charged and they dont prove it up id say folks can stay quiet for a day or two after youre dead. Forgot about a lot of specifics but alleged victims have to testify and it speaks loudly when they do not. Wiki seems to say that the state was ready to go to trial and so was kobe. That speaks loudly too cause thats some serious stress and serious gambling on others interpretation of your innocence. What if you got a guy like Shirley on the jury. Fucking Eagle Colorado for a black man on white girl? Come on. And FWIW I dont (didnt) like Kobe either.

I think it's 100 percent problematic that so many people, including the Obama's, rushed out condolences for a man that pretty much admitted raping a 19 yo.

Nineteen.

That's a life altering event for her, her parents, and everyone else close to her.

Kobe had a his lawyer read a statement half admitting, but not fully owning what he did.

I agree that it shouldn't completely define the man, but I sure don't share the full out adulation and lionization. I think the NYT obit pretty much nails. Once in a generation talent on the court. Not a very good teammate for much of his career. Extremely troubling event in 2003 that surely taints his legacy.

HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:29 am If you get charged and they dont prove it up id say folks can stay quiet for a day or two after youre dead. Forgot about a lot of specifics but alleged victims have to testify and it speaks loudly when they do not. Wiki seems to say that the state was ready to go to trial and so was kobe. That speaks loudly too cause thats some serious stress and serious gambling on others interpretation of your innocence. What if you got a guy like Shirley on the jury. Fucking Eagle Colorado for a black man on white girl? Come on. And FWIW I dont (didnt) like Kobe either.

You think the fact that a teenager didn't want to sit on a stand and publicly recount the worst moment of her life is akin to exoneration?

C'mon, man.

You're gonna get flamed for this, and rightfully so.

Well he admitted that she thought it was rape. Sounds fucked up but not sure thats necessarily rape. If you dont consent but dont verbalize an objection is that rape? If youre too fucked up to remember is that rape? What if you consented to vaginal intercourse but not in the ass? How soon do you have to make your objection to consent apparent? How much to do you have to try to physically stop it? What if you try and give up and allow it to keep going? Not easy is all. Not inconcievable at all that two people might have different views, expectations and interpretations of all that stuff.

Legally, every situation you just described at least in one jurisdiction would qualify as assault with a dick*.








*That's my preferred term for rape, because legally, that's a better definition.

HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:37 am If youre too fucked up to remember is that rape?

If you're too fucked up to give consent? Yeah, that's rape.

In reality that would've clanged off the halo.

I spent pretty much the entirety of game 4 of the 2004 first round playoff series against the Lakers chanting "rapist", hated Kobe the player, hated Kobe the rapist and hated everything about the Lakers. Yet, as a father of daughters, seeing how he championed them and how devoted he was to them, I was starting to like post-career Kobe. While what he did that night was awful, shitty and something he should be remembered for, that doesn't mean there can't be positives about someone.

I was admittedly very surprised at how emotional I was about this and it's probably because I could just imagine me holding my Harper or my Ashy knowing we were about to die. That's a side to this story that is hard to understand by people who don't have that bond. I watched those videos of him and Gigi on a loop yesterday imagining it was me showing my daughter how to swing a softball bat or how to catch a pop-up before her tryouts the day before. How would I feel knowing she was about to die?

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:27 am In reality that would've clanged off the halo.

55.3 percent of the time, yeah.

Good summation of my feelings. I hope me posting this doesn't make anyone feel the need to post rape hypotheticals about my daughters. It'd be cool if we could just not do that here.

That made Sunday all the more devastating. To learn Gianna was on the flight with him turned this from a sad moment to a traumatic one. To think of what their final moments might have been, the terror he must have felt knowing he couldn’t protect his little girl, it rocked me. If all of Kobe’s wealth couldn’t save Gianna, what chance does my meager shekels have? We know he would have traded everything to make sure she wasn’t on that helicopter. Imagining his helplessness spurned my own. As mighty and as strong as my daughter thinks I am, I know that I am weak and powerless, really, and life’s cruelty can touch her at any moment.

Giff wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:38 pm Good summation of my feelings. I hope me posting this doesn't make anyone feel the need to post rape hypotheticals about my daughters. It'd be cool if we could just not do that here.

That made Sunday all the more devastating. To learn Gianna was on the flight with him turned this from a sad moment to a traumatic one. To think of what their final moments might have been, the terror he must have felt knowing he couldn’t protect his little girl, it rocked me. If all of Kobe’s wealth couldn’t save Gianna, what chance does my meager shekels have? We know he would have traded everything to make sure she wasn’t on that helicopter. Imagining his helplessness spurned my own. As mighty and as strong as my daughter thinks I am, I know that I am weak and powerless, really, and life’s cruelty can touch her at any moment.

Boy, that last sentence sums it up.

I gotta say, I'm a little surprised at how hard so many people seem to be taking this. I know how great a player Kobe was, but people are freaking the fuck out. And for TT to post stuff on Facebook about how comedians shouldn't jump in with tasteless jokes... Why is Kobe granted such status?

I have a 19 year old daughter. A lot of that article resonated with me, as I coached her in both soccer and softball, forming a tight bond that is something I will always cherish.

But once your daughter becomes a woman, the abject terror over her interactions with men can become almost crippling. And she's dealt with a pretty scary situation while a freshman last year. Something that still haunts her and spurred us to put her in therapy.

So, while I can empathize with the Good Dad vibes re: Kobe, I'm not ready to just forget what he did to a 19 year old girl 15 years ago. I'm glad he rehabilitated and apparently figured out how not to be such a disgusting human.

But I'm not gonna give the guy a medal for being a Good Dad. Goes back to Chris Rock... There are things you're just supposed to do as a decent human being.

The Sybian wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:12 pm

Giff wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:38 pm Good summation of my feelings. I hope me posting this doesn't make anyone feel the need to post rape hypotheticals about my daughters. It'd be cool if we could just not do that here.

That made Sunday all the more devastating. To learn Gianna was on the flight with him turned this from a sad moment to a traumatic one. To think of what their final moments might have been, the terror he must have felt knowing he couldn’t protect his little girl, it rocked me. If all of Kobe’s wealth couldn’t save Gianna, what chance does my meager shekels have? We know he would have traded everything to make sure she wasn’t on that helicopter. Imagining his helplessness spurned my own. As mighty and as strong as my daughter thinks I am, I know that I am weak and powerless, really, and life’s cruelty can touch her at any moment.

Boy, that last sentence sums it up.

I gotta say, I'm a little surprised at how hard so many people seem to be taking this. I know how great a player Kobe was, but people are freaking the fuck out. And for TT to post stuff on Facebook about how comedians shouldn't jump in with tasteless jokes... Why is Kobe granted such status?

Especially after he posted something and pulled it down.

bfj wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:56 pm

The Sybian wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:12 pm

Giff wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:38 pm Good summation of my feelings. I hope me posting this doesn't make anyone feel the need to post rape hypotheticals about my daughters. It'd be cool if we could just not do that here.

That made Sunday all the more devastating. To learn Gianna was on the flight with him turned this from a sad moment to a traumatic one. To think of what their final moments might have been, the terror he must have felt knowing he couldn’t protect his little girl, it rocked me. If all of Kobe’s wealth couldn’t save Gianna, what chance does my meager shekels have? We know he would have traded everything to make sure she wasn’t on that helicopter. Imagining his helplessness spurned my own. As mighty and as strong as my daughter thinks I am, I know that I am weak and powerless, really, and life’s cruelty can touch her at any moment.

Boy, that last sentence sums it up.

I gotta say, I'm a little surprised at how hard so many people seem to be taking this. I know how great a player Kobe was, but people are freaking the fuck out. And for TT to post stuff on Facebook about how comedians shouldn't jump in with tasteless jokes... Why is Kobe granted such status?

Especially after he posted something and pulled it down.

If other comics want to tank their careers they are welcome to, but watching people get blacklisted for jokes that are much nicer than the 3 i wrote i am gonna pass on this one.

So of others on the flight. Found the fact that Altobelli (whose son is a scout for the Red Sox) had no relationship to Joe Altobelli surprising. When I heard the name the first thing I thought was how could they not mention that relationship at all. But guessing Altobelli is not a common name and having some high profile baseball coaches, scouts, etc just made me assume it was somewhat family related.

I clearly was not the only person
https://www.rochesterfirst.com/news/loc ... ter-crash/

I enjoyed how, a couple minutes into "The Lowe Post", Zach Lowe mentions that you can't discuss Kobe without discussing the alleged sexual assault... and that is the only mention of it during nearly an hour-long podcast.

TT2.0 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:05 am
If other comics want to tank their careers they are welcome to, but watching people get blacklisted for jokes that are much nicer than the 3 i wrote i am gonna pass on this one.

I'm not questioning your decision not to post, I defend comedian's in going after any topic, but also respect that there are consequences. I just don't understand why so many people are so amped up in defending Kobe or super sensitive about joking about Kobe.

I heard on NPR last night that the flying conditions were sketchy, and that at the time the LAPD had grounded their helicopters.

And it got me to thinking...I have a friend who's father died when she was 6 or 7, in a private plane crash. He was some kind of sales rep, in Blacksburg, VA, and figured buying a plane and getting his pilots license would be a great way to make his sales calls more quickly. And then he ended up crashing his plane in bad weather.

I've had pilot friends who have said that once the flying becomes part of your every day business travel/commuting, it leads to taking chances that you shouldn't. Thinking 'the weather conditions are pretty bad, but I've gotta get to this meeting' kind of thing and it leads to pushing the envelope.

I just wonder if this was a situation like this. Kobe lives down in Orange County...his Academy is up in Thousand Oaks, and he's thinking 'Well, we gotta get to this game'.

The Sybian wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:44 pmI just don't understand why so many people are so amped up in defending Kobe or super sensitive about joking about Kobe.

It feels very much how you absolutely could not make a JFK joke around my mom's side of the family. To a certain subset, obviously myself included, he was at a level higher than celebrity, like the Jordan of our generation but deeper because of the greater exposure or something?

DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:49 pm I heard on NPR last night that the flying conditions were sketchy, and that at the time the LAPD had grounded their helicopters.

And it got me to thinking...I have a friend who's father died when she was 6 or 7, in a private plane crash. He was some kind of sales rep, in Blacksburg, VA, and figured buying a plane and getting his pilots license would be a great way to make his sales calls more quickly. And then he ended up crashing his plane in bad weather.

I've had pilot friends who have said that once the flying becomes part of your every day business travel/commuting, it leads to taking chances that you shouldn't. Thinking 'the weather conditions are pretty bad, but I've gotta get to this meeting' kind of thing and it leads to pushing the envelope.

I just wonder if this was a situation like this. Kobe lives down in Orange County...his Academy is up in Thousand Oaks, and he's thinking 'Well, we gotta get to this game'.

Sure and it couldn't have been the first time. He's probably been flown in worse conditions and made it. He's been flown in that helicopter thousands of times.

Remember last year, Leicester's owner died in a helicopter leaving the stadium. It was a malfunction where the tail came off. So anything can happen.

The Sybian wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:44 pm

TT2.0 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:05 am
If other comics want to tank their careers they are welcome to, but watching people get blacklisted for jokes that are much nicer than the 3 i wrote i am gonna pass on this one.

I'm not questioning your decision not to post, I defend comedian's in going after any topic, but also respect that there are consequences. I just don't understand why so many people are so amped up in defending Kobe or super sensitive about joking about Kobe.

He's Italian

degenerasian wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:07 pm

DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:49 pm I heard on NPR last night that the flying conditions were sketchy, and that at the time the LAPD had grounded their helicopters.

And it got me to thinking...I have a friend who's father died when she was 6 or 7, in a private plane crash. He was some kind of sales rep, in Blacksburg, VA, and figured buying a plane and getting his pilots license would be a great way to make his sales calls more quickly. And then he ended up crashing his plane in bad weather.

I've had pilot friends who have said that once the flying becomes part of your every day business travel/commuting, it leads to taking chances that you shouldn't. Thinking 'the weather conditions are pretty bad, but I've gotta get to this meeting' kind of thing and it leads to pushing the envelope.

I just wonder if this was a situation like this. Kobe lives down in Orange County...his Academy is up in Thousand Oaks, and he's thinking 'Well, we gotta get to this game'.

Sure and it couldn't have been the first time. He's probably been flown in worse conditions and made it. He's been flown in that helicopter thousands of times.

Remember last year, Leicester's owner died in a helicopter leaving the stadium. It was a malfunction where the tail came off. So anything can happen.

WSJ has a pretty detailed article.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-last-f ... 1580158646

Also the Sports Junkies (DC guys) had an aviation expert on yesterday talking about it.
https://thefandc.radio.com/media/audio- ... pter-crash

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:07 pm

The Sybian wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:44 pmI just don't understand why so many people are so amped up in defending Kobe or super sensitive about joking about Kobe.

It feels very much how you absolutely could not make a JFK joke around my mom's side of the family. To a certain subset, obviously myself included, he was at a level higher than celebrity, like the Jordan of our generation but deeper because of the greater exposure or something?

I think he also represents a lot of people's youth. NBA seems to have the biggest individual exposure, ie the truly recognizable athletes.