It's the sixth version of The Swamp. What could possibly go wrong?
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Hope youre into... guns. Otherwise youre gonna end up dead thinking like that. .... I know its sounds cool to talk (type) tough but thats just idiocy. You cant last in that country like that. Someone will shoot youHaulCitgo wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:24 am Good thing there aren't any other former Soviet countries that need to be repatriated by Russia. Dude needs to be punched in the nose.
And these same people are claiming that the attack happened because Biden is both too weak against Russia and also too aggressive against Russia.Gunpowder wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:43 am "This is the US's fault", says most of the never apologize for America party
Well, congrats to Putin on removing all potential nuance from the situation.Steve of phpBB wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 1:13 pm Yes.
There was also another treaty in 1997 between Ukraine and Russia where each country agreed to respect the border. But Ukraine decided in 2018 not to renew it (after Russia had already blatantly breached it), so that treaty expired.
There is one thing about the pro-Ukrainian position that bothers me a little bit, though. It seems to me that the border between Ukraine and Russia is somewhat arbitrary in that it really wasn't an international boundary. Up until 1991, it was an internal boundary within the USSR. So it would not necessarily be crazy for the border to need some adjustment.
I didn't even realize that Crimea was part of the Russian SSR until Khrushchev gifted it to Ukraine in 1954. It is not necessarily evil for Russia to decide that since the conditions underlying the gift had changed - Ukraine being a separate country - Russia wanted it back. (I can't believe I sound like Dr. Howard right now.)
So I could see the argument that if the people in a few border regions preferred to be part of Russia rather than part of Ukraine, Ukraine should let those provinces go.
None of this even remotely justifies a murderous invasion, though. It's just Putin giving aid and comfort to the Republicans again, like he did in 2016, because he knows that the Republicans will side with Russia over Ukraine and Europe while the Democrats do the opposite.
Here. The only saving grace I’m feeling is that at least everyone dealing in this, even Putin, is a rational adult. Couldn’t have said that under the other guy.Giff wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:36 am Is there anyone else here scared this is going to end very bad. Like shit we've never seen on a global stage in 76 years bad, but like much worse?
Like did I check out the radius if NYC were to be nuked to make sure I'd be dead rather than in some awful in-between state?Giff wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:36 am Is there anyone else here scared this is going to end very bad. Like shit we've never seen on a global stage in 76 years bad, but like much worse?
Steve of phpBB wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:50 am This is so terrible sitting here, knowing that there is nothing much we can do.
It would be completely insane for the US to get involved militarily, right? Even an air campaign would be really dumb and irresponsible?
Double yes. We start WW3.
I agree but its really just waiting on someone else. Maybe you luck up and Putin has limited goals. Either the former soviet countries and neighbors and those with large interests are able to fight hard and long enough to change the math or a coalition backed by the US will have threaten military superiority. Maybe China has interests? Seems like the first group will decline or fail. Anyone know what ambitions for Putin?Johnnie wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:57 amSteve of phpBB wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:50 am This is so terrible sitting here, knowing that there is nothing much we can do.
It would be completely insane for the US to get involved militarily, right? Even an air campaign would be really dumb and irresponsible?Double yes. We start WW3.
The Trump campaign worked behind the scenes last week to make sure the new Republican platform won’t call for giving weapons to Ukraine to fight Russian and rebel forces, contradicting the view of almost all Republican foreign policy leaders in Washington.
Throughout the campaign, Trump has been dismissive of calls for supporting the Ukraine government as it fights an ongoing Russian-led intervention. Trump’s campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, worked as a lobbyist for the Russian-backed former Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych for more than a decade.
It appears like Putin plans to encircle Kyiv, so I wouldn't hold out hope that he'll stop at the "disputed" eastern regions. This has strong "Hitler invading Poland in September 1939" vibes.HaulCitgo wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:23 amI agree but its really just waiting on someone else. Maybe you luck up and Putin has limited goals. Either the former soviet countries and neighbors and those with large interests are able to fight hard and long enough to change the math or a coalition backed by the US will have threaten military superiority. Maybe China has interests? Seems like the first group will decline or fail. Anyone know what ambitions for Putin?Johnnie wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:57 amSteve of phpBB wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:50 am This is so terrible sitting here, knowing that there is nothing much we can do.
It would be completely insane for the US to get involved militarily, right? Even an air campaign would be really dumb and irresponsible?Double yes. We start WW3.
I listened to a podcast this morning discussing all the possible moves Putin can make. What makes the most sense is invading Kiev, ousting Zelensky and installing a Russian puppet who will act as a proxy so Putin can rule all of Ukraine without having to physically conquer. She was saying Western Ukraine would be incredibly difficult to invade and conquer.brian wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:30 amIt appears like Putin plans to encircle Kyiv, so I wouldn't hold out hope that he'll stop at the "disputed" eastern regions. This has strong "Hitler invading Poland in September 1939" vibes.HaulCitgo wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:23 amI agree but its really just waiting on someone else. Maybe you luck up and Putin has limited goals. Either the former soviet countries and neighbors and those with large interests are able to fight hard and long enough to change the math or a coalition backed by the US will have threaten military superiority. Maybe China has interests? Seems like the first group will decline or fail. Anyone know what ambitions for Putin?Johnnie wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:57 amSteve of phpBB wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:50 am This is so terrible sitting here, knowing that there is nothing much we can do.
It would be completely insane for the US to get involved militarily, right? Even an air campaign would be really dumb and irresponsible?Double yes. We start WW3.
I guess it just depends on how repressive Putin wants to be.Rex wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:05 pm Good luck with all of that, really. Has it been done successfully since the 1940s? I don't doubt that they can and will overwhelm the military. But occupying that much land with that many people, armed with social media in addition to whatever normal weapons they have...it's just too difficult.
I don't think Hitler rolling into the Rhineland would have been possible with today's technology, which is the point. WWII would not have played out the way it did if people got to watch and basically experience atrocities happening in real time. Not to mention the ability to warn and mobilize on a grass roots level rather than have to wait for a political or military leader to tell you what to do.degenerasian wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:49 pm It's insane having a war in the social media era. imagine if we had twitter when Hitler rolled into the Rhineland.
I'm sure they are trying and will eventually succeed on some level. But as Ian Malcolm said, life finds a way.degenerasian wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 2:55 pm The fact that we are still getting lots of news out of the Ukraine means Russia has completely failed to supress its easiest command and control targets, the civilian cell towers and phone junctions. From a military point of view that is a staggering level of fail.