NFL 2022 week 17 - Wentz the Carr crashes into the Bridge(water)

[Brontoburglar]

This will be the Bears' worst season since 1969.

As long as they have Justin Fields at QB, they will be a joy to bet against.

are you saying that Fields is the issue with the Bears?

No.

But he (in my opinion of course) is not going to be a top-tier NFL QB.

coming to that conclusion about possibly the NFL's best post-Michael Vick QB rushing threat after his second season where his best pass catcher was Cole Kmet or Darnell Mooney seems awfully, awfully premature, don't you think?

Fields became the third QB to rush for 1,000+ yards in a season today. The other two are Vick and Lamar Jackson. Not sure how that's not a top-tier group.

[rass]

wooo

[Brontoburglar]

it's very funny that Pat Narduzzi griped about Pitt throwing the ball too much last year with KP

[L-Jam3]

I’d say I can’t believe they’re going to blow the #1 seed, but I’ve been watching this team for 40 years and nothing can possibly surprise me now.

As I’ve seen pointed out, at least the giants have nothing to play for next week?

I also don't think a team losing two games with its backup QB is really all that bad?

obviously today was a disaster, but it's way, way worse if Hurts is out there

I think he’s just disappointed they might lose the top seed and bye week.

(Although, I shouldn’t speak for Ljam.)

That’s pretty much it.

And all the Steelers fans who want to run Tomlin out on a rail, why? This guy just wins year in and year out. I don’t get the frustration with him.

ETA: the Steelers make the playoffs if they beat the Browns at home, the Bills win in Buffalo (who will be playing for the 1 seed) against New England, and the Jets win in Miami. That’s all doable. This team, which is frankly mediocre at best at whole, and was 2-6 at one point, can make the playoffs again. If coaching is the difference between a team’s talent level and its results, I can’t see how Tomlin gets as much flak as he does, because he’s in that small handful of coaches who are in the positive in that equation every year.

[Brontoburglar]

I totally get the disappointment, but I also don't think the scenario is all that farfetched, either

given the Giants' injuries this season, it would be surprising if they weren't cautious on Sunday

[Pruitt IV]

This will be the Bears' worst season since 1969.

As long as they have Justin Fields at QB, they will be a joy to bet against.

are you saying that Fields is the issue with the Bears?

No.

But he (in my opinion of course) is not going to be a top-tier NFL QB.

coming to that conclusion about possibly the NFL's best post-Michael Vick QB rushing threat after his second season where his best pass catcher was Cole Kmet or Darnell Mooney seems awfully, awfully premature, don't you think?

Fields became the third QB to rush for 1,000+ yards in a season today. The other two are Vick and Lamar Jackson. Not sure how that's not a top-tier group.

Let's hold the discussion for 2 calendar years, so we have a better grasp on his career trajectory.

But just for fun, here's the career stats of Bobby Douglass who for a long time held the record for rushing yards by a QB in a season with 968 (in 1972, a 14 game season). He QB'd an earlier crappy Bears team, and stunk as a passer, but boy, could he run!

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... ugBo00.htm

See you in 2025

[DSafetyGuy]

This will be the Bears' worst season since 1969.

As long as they have Justin Fields at QB, they will be a joy to bet against.

are you saying that Fields is the issue with the Bears?

No.

But he (in my opinion of course) is not going to be a top-tier NFL QB.

coming to that conclusion about possibly the NFL's best post-Michael Vick QB rushing threat after his second season where his best pass catcher was Cole Kmet or Darnell Mooney seems awfully, awfully premature, don't you think?

Fields became the third QB to rush for 1,000+ yards in a season today. The other two are Vick and Lamar Jackson. Not sure how that's not a top-tier group.

My read on Pruitt's original comment was that Fields' presence makes wagering lines on the Bears better (a couple points) for those wagering against them than what they should be.

I don't think Fields is going to be a top-tier NFL quarterback because Bears management has done a very, very poor job of putting talent around him this season and I don't believe in their ability to do so in the future. In a year where they had little flexibility due to trying to clean up cap in one offseason (a completely reasonable plan), top free agent Larry Ogunjobi failed his physical, nullifying a three-year, $40.5 million deal (and basically putting the team on hold to make moves at the beginning of free agency for three days). They also traded Khalil Mack away on the first day of the league year (see "cleaning up cap"). Other "big" moves included signing DT Justin Jones to fill a portion of the role expected to be filled by Ogunjobi, DE Al-Quadin Muhammad from IND, where the new coach used to be DC, and Lucas Patrick, a reserve interior offensive lineman from Green Bay.

Without a first-round pick, their draft strategy this year was to spend both second-round picks on DBs, then their third-rounder on a 25-year-old WR who is much more a return specialist than receiver (active for 11 games where he has totaled 8 rushes, 6 receptions, 18 kickoff returns, and 5 punt returns - he lost both return jobs at times for fumbling). The fact he's 25 is the cherry on top, as he would be at the age where any potential contract extension would come when he is at/past his physical peak instead of still approaching it.

Anyway, this was rationalized by trying to help Fields by making the defense and special teams better to make the team more competitive. They did draft four offensive linemen in the last three rounds (including two from FCS schools - one of whom was the left tackle who made yesterday's highlight packages for getting driven back into Fields for a sack in which I don't think the defender even touched Fields).

After their original 53-man roster was set, several analysts (Mike Clay at ESPN was one) had them as a bottom-five NFL team strictly from a talent level. They also added seven players who had been cut by other teams to their opening day roster, underscoring how bad their roster was and still is.

The "defense/special teams to help Fields" plan led to them trading away Robert Quinn and Roquan Smith during the season. They also sent their own second-round pick to Pittsburgh for Chase Claypool (I posted at the time that I understood the thought process behind it because the free agent pool at WR this coming offseason is very weak). Anyway, Claypool has 11 catches in six games and is still being talked about as having problems picking up the playbook after two months. That pick sent out for him is almost certainly going to be #32 or #33, pending what Houston does next week at Indianapolis (I expect the Bears to lose because Minnesota has to try to win to get back into the 2-seed).

I don't trust their player evaluation, asset valuation, or ability to work the salary cap (Over the Cap estimates them having the most in the league for this coming offseason at $124 million, which is $52 million more than the team listed as second - ATL). Having the #1 or #2 overall pick in this coming draft doesn't really excite me because the roster is so poor overall, they need to trade down to fill the roster with young talent (they're bad at all three levels on defense and need help everywhere on offense except QB and TE - and should draft a developmental QB late, anyway), but I expect them to draft Jalen Carter or Will Anderson instead.

So, no, I don't think Fields will be a top-tier NFL quarterback, regardless of how many yards he runs for.

[L-Jam3]

I’ll trust D-Safe’s analysis, but I would’ve simply said “he plays quarterback for the Bears” and have been done with it.

[tennbengal]

I’ll trust D-Safe’s analysis, but I would’ve simply said “he plays quarterback for the Bears” and have been done with it.

Eh...things are like that...until they are not. The right player in the right spot can make any history, well, history.

[A_B]

Props on the thread title being accurate.

[The Sybian]

This will be the Bears' worst season since 1969.

As long as they have Justin Fields at QB, they will be a joy to bet against.

are you saying that Fields is the issue with the Bears?

No.

But he (in my opinion of course) is not going to be a top-tier NFL QB.

coming to that conclusion about possibly the NFL's best post-Michael Vick QB rushing threat after his second season where his best pass catcher was Cole Kmet or Darnell Mooney seems awfully, awfully premature, don't you think?

Fields became the third QB to rush for 1,000+ yards in a season today. The other two are Vick and Lamar Jackson. Not sure how that's not a top-tier group.

Let's hold the discussion for 2 calendar years, so we have a better grasp on his career trajectory.

But just for fun, here's the career stats of Bobby Douglass who for a long time held the record for rushing yards by a QB in a season with 968 (in 1972, a 14 game season). He QB'd an earlier crappy Bears team, and stunk as a passer, but boy, could he run!

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... ugBo00.htm

See you in 2025

His stats are fascinating. In 1972, he started all 14 games. He averaged 14 attempts and 5 completions a game! Threw for 1246 yards, 9 tds and 12 ints. He rushed for 968 yards and 8 tds.


Over his career he threw 36 tds and 64 ints. I know it was a different era, but that is horrendous.

[Brontoburglar]

I’ll trust D-Safe’s analysis, but I would’ve simply said “he plays quarterback for the Bears” and have been done with it.

Eh...things are like that...until they are not. The right player in the right spot can make any history, well, history.

to TB's point, the Chiefs are a great example of that

the Bears have been brutal ATS the last two seasons. but the market adjusts -- it's possible but unlikely that Chicago will continue to be as bad as they have been against the spread in 2023 and 2024

and while I understand the lack of confidence in the Chicago front office given the way the team was constructed this year, it's also fair to say that the Bears would be one of the most coveted jobs in the NFL if it was in the market for a coach/GM like it was a season ago because of the combination of young QB and cap space. it's a team that you can easily talk yourself into making a leap in 2023. with the right moves, of course.

it's also important that the QB has shown he could be the guy -- which is why it's incredibly premature to say that the Bears will be continue to be overvalued in the future. can and will are obviously two different things, but I'm confident saying that Fields would be taken fairly highly irrespective of rookie contract if the NFL was rebooted into a Madden 23 fantasy draft. yeah, there's lots to work on. but it takes a special talent to be a QB and run for 1,000 yards in a season. Lamar was the MVP when he did it in 2019 and Vick was second in the MVP voting two years before his 1,000-yard season.

[Square Rob]

That level of play is actually a decent descriptor of the level of play you'd get from the currently 31-year-old QB we are discussing! This is a team that would easily be in the playoffs with Carr-level QB play all season.

Derek Carr has one glaring weakness and it's similar to Zach Wilson's. He's gonna be running around and throwing it away and throwing checkdowns and getting booed off of the field in NYJ. That's my prediction at least. The Jets would be in the playoffs with Mike White-level QB-ing - they just had way too much Zach Wilson.

And right on cue this video comes out:

The one thing that I struggle with with this though is how badly the jets as a whole dropped off the back half of the season. I haven’t watched a single snap of their all year. But just looking at their schedule it was stark.

[DSafetyGuy]

I’ll trust D-Safe’s analysis, but I would’ve simply said “he plays quarterback for the Bears” and have been done with it.

I clearly had been meaning to get some shit off my chest for a while.

[EnochRoot]

Odd one of the greatest plays of the past um....ever? was made by a punter this past weekend.



(the punt was ruled back because of an illegal man downfield, but the subsequent punt effectively ended the game).

[Johnnie]

Holy shit.

That Damar Hamlin injury looks awful. Like he knocked himself out on the tackle but had a delayed response and just dropped.

There's a fucking ambulance on the field now.

[Johnnie]

Dude...this is bad. Bad bad. Oh my God.

[Jerloma]

Scary as fuck. No chance of anything but head trauma, right?

[Johnnie]

They're going to continue to play the game? Jesus fuck.

Edit.

Play is suspended. But man. You can't continue this right now.

[rass]

Awful. And 5 minutes to warm up after that. Great.

[EnochRoot]

What happened? Just tuned in.

[EnochRoot]

Oh wow. CPR? Jesus

[tennbengal]

It’s the Christian eriksen onfield cardiac issue again, I think.

[rass]

He made a tackle, stood up and fell down. Ended up with an ambulance on the field and reports that CPR was provided before he was taken off the field.

[tennbengal]

I don’t think it was the tackle. CPR for ten minutes leads me to think a sudden cardiac event.

[brian]

It’s the Christian eriksen onfield cardiac issue again, I think.

Yeah docs on Twitter speculating cardiac trauma.

[brian]

Pray that you don’t hear the name Chuck Hughes for the rest of the night.

[rass]

Just describing what we saw, and I agree. That wasn't like the Shazier incident. It was something else.

[Johnnie]

I don’t think it was the tackle. CPR for ten minutes leads me to think a sudden cardiac event.

Yea. And for nearly 10 minutes? That's not good. You as an individual performing CPR need to tap out and let others pick up CPR after a couple minutes.

[Reaper]

Damn. I switched over to the end of Sixers-Pels once I saw an injury timeout, saw suspended and figured it was a weather event, until sensing the general morose in the studio. I don't know how they play after this, but then when do they resume if they don't continue? I mean, I know the obvious is tomorrow, but what if he takes a turn for the worse overnight? No one's going to want to finish this game that quickly.

Can't help but think of Hank Gathers right now.

[EnochRoot]

[bfj]

[rass]

Really seemed like the coaches were the ones that said screw this, we're leaving the field, right? Buck kept saying 5 minutes (to his credit, incredulously) so that must be what the league was feeding ESPN.

[EnochRoot]

OK, so Hamlin is a tad undersized to be making a tackle like that, but it didn't seem out of the ordinary otherwise.

[tennbengal]

Really seemed like the coaches were the ones that said screw this, we're leaving the field, right? Buck kept saying 5 minutes (to his credit, incredulously) so that must be what the league was feeding ESPN.

Yeah - good on them

[EnochRoot]

A buddy of mine shared some info from a cardiologist who posts on Sons of Sam Horn:

A cardiologist on SOSH just posted this: A blow to the chest can cause sudden, cardiac death. It’s called commotio cordis. Essentially, the trauma causes a brief electrical spike. If it happens during a particular point of the cardiac cycle, it can stop the heart immediately. It is much much more common in young children due to the increased compliance of the chest wall. Most cases that I’ve ever heard of occur with a strike to the sternum, usually a punch or a ball – like in baseball or lacrosse.
It’s extremely rare. Only about 10 to 20 cases a year are reported. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a case in anyone over the age of 20 years of age. Every case I’ve heard of, or attended to, involved baseball. I would think shoulder pads would prevent the anterior chest from this type of injury. Resuscitation was historically, dismal, but that is improved with better recognition. There is some speculation that certain individuals are more predisposed given a possible long QT syndrome. The variables that are necessary for this to occur, include the velocity and timing of the incident. Without going into the specifics of the cardiac electrical cycle and repolarization, the most common underlying dysrhythmias include long QT syndrome, and a condition called Brugada syndrome.

A blow to the chest does transmit electrical activity through the chest wall into the heart. Whenever I’m at the bedside and a patient’s heart stops the quickest way I have to get it restarted is a thump, essentially a punch into the chest of the patient. It is thought that a normal punch to the chest confers, approximately 2-5 J of energy.

[bfj]

My only thought was the impact to his chest from the hit, but it didn’t seem overly violent.

[Johnnie]

This is good to know. It gives hope.

[tennbengal]

My only thought was the impact to his chest from the hit, but it didn’t seem overly violent.

I assume something undiagnosed in terms of a cardiac condition would make this more possible. Dunno.

[Johnnie]

Of fucking course.